Editing Caution

18 Apr 2014

Liz said this, in her post on April 17: "It may seem like a throwaway, thoughtless statement, but you imply favouritism and therefore unfairness. That has never been the case."

I am walking proof of that. I have never received either a Recommended Read or an Editor's Pick award, yet I have been a story verifier for a little over a year now. My writing is not good enough that it should be awarded as outstanding, and I know that. I would be embarrassed to accept an award that implied I was in a class with Jaymal, or Frank_Lee, or LauraLee_sugah, or any of a number of other clearly excellent writers on this site.

I was invited to become a moderator; I did not ask for the position. I accepted because it was an honor, and because I felt I had something in the way of technical ability to offer writers, and because I have a deep respect for the rules on this site. I don't want accolades, or honors, or even special mention when I edit a piece for an aspiring author; it is reward enough to see authors improve because of suggestions I have made to them over the course of reviewing their work. I have had a few thank you notes, and I always try to share them with the other mods; they make our job a little easier, and our day a little brighter.

I DO get a little miffed though, when I feel I or any of my fellow moderators are unduly castigated or vilified. And I get more than a little miffed, when, even after the accusation has been politely denied, the accuser continues to make it, and refuses to apologize.

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster

18 Apr 2014

Quote by sprite
btw, fuck you all for not thanking me every time you write. you should be lifting your arms into the air and crying out my name in rapture with every single keystroke! praise me, you sons of bitches, or i will come down on you like the fist of the heavens!

But.. But I DO cry out your name every time I...
Oh, wait... Embarassed

18 Apr 2014

Quote by sprite

you, my love, have a free pass, anytime you wish

You're just saying that, 'cause she has a vagina.

stumps off , grumbling... goddamn sexist bitches.... just 'cause a guy's got a dick.....well, fuck them....mumble mumble... and no fucking thanks or story awards either.. fuck it... I'm gonna go out in the garden and eat worms......

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster

18 Apr 2014

Quote by Broccck

LovelyKinkyKitsune, I understand what you are saying here as I have books published in the real world and there is a way this is done: The "Acknowledgements" at the front of the book. But I am writing in history, a non -fiction category, so a LOT of research is done into what others have said about the subject of your research, and you can have a lifetimes correspondence with many of these people.
In short the need to thank or acknowledge meaningful assistance of any significant kind is a courtesy.
Additionally, I make a royalty on every book that sells. So I do owe others a word of thanks.

But isn't this whole matter this thread is about a very small matter by comparison?
I mean, someone forgot to thank someone else in the specific way they would have been pleased with for help on a few pages of erotic writing? Maybe there is a "slight" here, but can it be of such magnitude that a whole thread has been used to call attention to that reputed slight? Plus the person who has allegedly done the "slighting" has given a public apology for doing so. I should think that would be more than sufficient.
That this "slight" is now being tossed about on an almost "epic" scale is pretense......it is overblown......
Additionally, so many tangential matters have been raised only to serve to hurt the feelings and impugn the integrity of others and this site itself, etc., that it is perhaps best if we just drop this whole thread and take each matter up individually in other more appropriate ways.

I beg you all to please keep this in perspective and stop.

I think you're right, Broccck. The thread has gone far afield of my intention. That's not necessarily a bad thing. As I've mentioned above - to the extent that the discussion raises consciousness among writers about the ordinary courtesies practiced in the real world, then that's all to the good. (And since you mentioned it, an acknowledgements section is found in every book, fiction and non-fiction.)

Also, as I mentioned above, as the discussion got rolling I did develop a curiosity about how the powers that be would react to it all. As I've stated several times I find this a quality site that is worth my financial support. The forums always struck me as low key and civil. BUT I'd never seen a situation in which anyone was in any way critical (however slightly and, really, the issues raised in the thread are hardly earth-shattering) of the site and its proprietors.

So as other posters began to raise issues critical in nature and the thread began to veer away from my intentions I became curious about whether or not the powers had the capacity to rationally and in a civil way address criticisms or issues. That curiosity was certainly satisfied. As you can see above, the reaction from the proprietors and long-time and faithful insiders and users is what often comes out of organizations: deny, stonewall, attack. There are some fine and open-minded organizations out there, but mostly organizations close ranks to repel anything that is remotely perceived as a threat or that suggests the organization is anything less than perfect. It's pretty standard organizational behavior.

So, disappointing but not surprising.

18 Apr 2014

Quote by Possibly

Thank you for your 'public board' support Liz.

You're welcome.

He's in the wrong, and he knows it. It's just a shame he isn't decent enough to admit he's made a mistake. It's difficult for some people to eat humble pie.

He'll just ignore any discussion of owing you an apology and carry on regardless. He likes to think he's started a worthwhile discussion, but in reality can't see that we are all just rolling our eyes.

I hope the penny drops at some point and he sends you a PM. There are other, less arrogant members on Lush who would be willing to help you out in future. NaughtyNurse is an excellent writer and has already generously offered.

Congratulations on your Recommended Read award.

Liz x

@Lizerotica

18 Apr 2014

Quote by Liz

You're welcome.

He's in the wrong, and he knows it. It's just a shame he isn't decent enough to admit he's made a mistake. It's difficult for some people to eat humble pie.

He'll just ignore any discussion of owing you an apology and carry on regardless. He likes to think he's started a worthwhile discussion, but in reality can't see that we are all just rolling our eyes.

I hope the penny drops at some point and he sends you a PM. There are other, less arrogant members on Lush who would be willing to help you out in future. NaughtyNurse is an excellent writer and has already generously offered.

Congratulations on your Recommended Read award.

Liz x

Liz,

Well stated. Thank you once again.

Click here for Head

18 Apr 2014

Quote by bethalia

If you want to invest hours in editing someone else's project and don't care about being extended ordinary courtesy, then I say knock yourself out.

I'm not concerned with any of these thumbs up things either. Go back and read my original post. But others have noted the discrepancy, and I can say I've noticed it too. I never submit to competitions here or anywhere else, because I simply have no interest in trophies or blue ribbons. BUT you've noticed that site people have to ascribe that jealousy to me. It's way to undermine, trivialize, and avoid issues.

It's true that you didn't bring it up in the op. You brought it up in your second post and that was the first mention of it. You also said that your stories hadn't come close but how do you know that? It not as though authors are told that they nearly got a RR.
I do get acknowledged, it's a simple pm that says thank you and for me that is enough. The story is THEIR story, not mine! I just assist in getting it out to the readers.
You achieved everthing that you set out to in the op. You have given your warning, you have received your acknowledgement and even an apology. After that you called a mod childish and churlish, for a man of our age, that displays both of those qualities.

18 Apr 2014

This is a very misleading title for a thread.

I thought this was about dangling participles and misplaced modifiers or even the cost of band-aids because of all the papercuts you might get from editing.

Instead I was disappointed. The only thing I learned from this thread was a man got his feelings hurt when he didn't get a thank you. Then he took what people said and twisted them to suit his own purpose which in turn was interpreted as an insult by other members. Then he got a thank you and disregarded it in an insulting manner and continued on in an insulting manner which drew the ire of the mods that edit for everyone on this site. We get it. We thank you.
Now can we all please get over it?

This is Writer's Resources. Not the Woe-is-me-I've-been-slighted-so-I'm-pissed-off-at-the-world-and-need-to-bitch-and-moan-about-it. That's what your personal blog is for. Do it there.

I need advice on what I'm writing, not advice on how not to act. I have that area covered very well, thank you.

By the way... Who do I have to perform sexual favours for to get an RR? Or even get my shelving put up? LM promised but he's not following through.

18 Apr 2014

Quote by TheDevilsWeakness
By the way... Who do I have to perform sexual favours for to get an RR?

That would be me... ;)

18 Apr 2014

Quote by clum

That would be me... ;)

How are you at putting up shelving? It's a bit more pressing at the moment...

18 Apr 2014

Quote by TheDevilsWeakness
How are you at putting up shelving? It's a bit more pressing at the moment...

Worse than useless.

18 Apr 2014

Quote by TheDevilsWeakness

I thought this was about dangling participles and misplaced modifiers or even the cost of band-aids because of all the papercuts you might get from editing.

Instead I was disappointed.

Lol, no you weren't.

18 Apr 2014

Quote by Magical_felix

Lol, no you weren't.

I wasn't discussing your performance dear. It's not always about you. confused5

19 Apr 2014

Quote by TheDevilsWeakness
This is Writer's Resources.

precise-amundo, thank-you! smile

that being said however, this *H-A-S* to be asked:

Don: do you still stand by what you say that Possibly is "shitty and clueless"?

and DO NOT give me any obfuscatory, deflecting horsey-poo - hoping you have the cojones to give me a simple yes or no.

and yeah I know I could have PM'ed this - fuck that shit - I'd like to hear it here, and maybe sooner than later, dude.

smile

19 Apr 2014

Quote by TheDevilsWeakness

By the way... Who do I have to perform sexual favours for to get an RR? Or even get my shelving put up?

me.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

21 Apr 2014

Quote by dpw

It's true that you didn't bring it up in the op. You brought it up in your second post and that was the first mention of it. You also said that your stories hadn't come close but how do you know that? It not as though authors are told that they nearly got a RR.
I do get acknowledged, it's a simple pm that says thank you and for me that is enough. The story is THEIR story, not mine! I just assist in getting it out to the readers.
You achieved everthing that you set out to in the op. You have given your warning, you have received your acknowledgement and even an apology. After that you called a mod childish and churlish, for a man of our age, that displays both of those qualities.

Is this STILL going on? Real life (as opposed to internet life) intervened for a few days, but I'm glad it at least seems to be winding down a bit.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'assist in getting it out to the readers.' I hope if you're editing you're providing a real benefit. I get the impression some decide to edit just because they've been writing for a while, and that's generous but not necessarily helpful. (And I'm just asking. My assumption is that what you provide is helpful and worthwhile.) I enjoy editing because of the teaching function involved. I can provide authoritative information on the mechanics/punctuation/grammar/usage side, and informed and experienced opinion on the character/plot/setting/mood/etc. side. Hopefully folks can offer the same if they're going to set themselves up as editors.

And you can't really mean to take me to task for being critical of anyone (although you specifically mentioned moderator, so I get it: site insider, sacred personage, above criticism). Have you paid attention to the crap that's been heaped on me for opening up to discussion and scrutiny that Lush, while a quality site, might have an issue or two and be less than perfect? (said B.E. to yet another Forum Guru - although I need to be careful, as if this thread goes on much longer I'll have reached a sufficient number of posts to achieve that exalted sobriquet!).

I noticed omkn dropped out of the discussion fairly early, and that was a wise decision. It's my OT so I've stayed with it even though it makes me a target for the insiders and the powers that can't abide the concept of the site they're heavily invested in as being not in every way perfect. Certainly the idea of a heavy gender bias and a bias toward verifiers/moderators/site directors in story recognition is obvious. It's not an issue for me. I don't have an interest, which is why I very deliberately stay away from contests and competitions. But the issue exists, is readily observable, but is one which site proprietors and insiders just don't have the capacity to acknowledge or address. That's a shame.

A surprising aspect of this has been experiencing the extremity of Liz's bad behavior. I've not wanted to engage with her directly, as who knows what sort of shit-storm that would incite. And I shouldn't be surprised, as in the few months I've been associated with the site I've seen her insult and flame others with whom she disagrees. I've been on my share of sites and forums, and I've always (I can't think of an exception except here) found that those who run sites very much want civil discussion on the boards. But Liz has no hesitation in insulting and flaming and engaging in behavior that is just not appropriate. She's great with people she likes, who agree with her, and site insiders. But suggest less than perfection in her site and she really unsheathes the daggers and starts slashing. The capacity to engage rationally and reasonably with those with whom she disagrees is a tool that just doesn't seem to be in her tool box. It would be nice if she could set a better example. I understand that not everyone has the capacity to lead and lead by example.

Anyway, appreciate the response and your ideas.

21 Apr 2014

Quote by bethalia

Is this STILL going on? Real life (as opposed to internet life) intervened for a few days, but I'm glad it at least seems to be winding down a bit.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'assist in getting it out to the readers.' I hope if you're editing you're providing a real benefit. I get the impression some decide to edit just because they've been writing for a while, and that's generous but not necessarily helpful. (And I'm just asking. My assumption is that what you provide is helpful and worthwhile.) I enjoy editing because of the teaching function involved. I can provide authoritative information on the mechanics/punctuation/grammar/usage side, and informed and experienced opinion on the character/plot/setting/mood/etc. side. Hopefully folks can offer the same if they're going to set themselves up as editors.

And you can't really mean to take me to task for being critical of anyone (although you specifically mentioned moderator, so I get it: site insider, sacred personage, above criticism). Have you paid attention to the crap that's been heaped on me for opening up to discussion and scrutiny that Lush, while a quality site, might have an issue or two and be less than perfect? (said B.E. to yet another Forum Guru - although I need to be careful, as if this thread goes on much longer I'll have reached a sufficient number of posts to achieve that exalted sobriquet!).

I noticed omkn dropped out of the discussion fairly early, and that was a wise decision. It's my OT so I've stayed with it even though it makes me a target for the insiders and the powers that can't abide the concept of the site they're heavily invested in as being not in every way perfect. Certainly the idea of a heavy gender bias and a bias toward verifiers/moderators/site directors in story recognition is obvious. It's not an issue for me. I don't have an interest, which is why I very deliberately stay away from contests and competitions. But the issue exists, is readily observable, but is one which site proprietors and insiders just don't have the capacity to acknowledge or address. That's a shame.

A surprising aspect of this has been experiencing the extremity of Liz's bad behavior. I've not wanted to engage with her directly, as who knows what sort of shit-storm that would incite. And I shouldn't be surprised, as in the few months I've been associated with the site I've seen her insult and flame others with whom she disagrees. I've been on my share of sites and forums, and I've always (I can't think of an exception except here) found that those who run sites very much want civil discussion on the boards. But Liz has no hesitation in insulting and flaming and engaging in behavior that is just not appropriate. She's great with people she likes, who agree with her, and site insiders. But suggest less than perfection in her site and she really unsheathes the daggers and starts slashing. The capacity to engage rationally and reasonably with those with whom she disagrees is a tool that just doesn't seem to be in her tool box. It would be nice if she could set a better example. I understand that not everyone has the capacity to lead and lead by example.

Anyway, appreciate the response and your ideas.

just couldn't resist getting some more insults in, could you? smile

you've missed a few, btw. here, i'll help you. that sprite's a total cunt-faced bitch. that should start things rolling again.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

21 Apr 2014

Quote by GardenerGuy

precise-amundo, thank-you!

that being said however, this *H-A-S* to be asked:

Don: do you still stand by what you say that Possibly is "shitty and clueless"?

and DO NOT give me any obfuscatory, deflecting horsey-poo - hoping you have the cojones to give me a simple yes or no.

and yeah I know I could have PM'ed this - fuck that shit - I'd like to hear it here, and maybe sooner than later, dude.

Yes, GG, I understand your need to misrepresent what I said (and from another 'Forum Guru.' Surprise!). It's a time-tested way to attack.

What I said (and perhaps a bit with an injudicious choice of words that nonetheless conveyed accurate concepts) was that the behavior Possibly (and her co-author) engaged in was shitty and clueless. And it was. That doesn't mean that she or her co-author are either of those things. To give you an idea of the distinction: I just said you misrepresented what I said. You did. But that doesn't mean I'm accusing you of being a liar and dishonest in the general conduct of your life and relationships. It's just that I understand that to accomplish the purpose of attacking me and trying to make me look bad you've elected to misrepresent my words. It's a common method to attack people (especially on internet forums ), and I recognize it. That's all.

What you think of as obfuscation is just a matter of my having been around the block a few time, having the ability to recognize the sleights-of-hand and rhetorical tricks (English/Communications is my field) so many in this thread have used to attack the messenger and in so doing side-step and avoid the message, and my refusal to engage with that sort of nonsense.

As I've said previously (and I think several times), it's great that Possibly has acknowledged that she made a mistake, has extended an apology, and made amends. That's appropriate and speaks loudly to her good character and personal qualities. (Of course, I haven't heard word one from her co-author.)

Was there anything else I could help you with today?

21 Apr 2014

Quote by sprite

just couldn't resist getting some more insults in, could you? you've missed a few, btw. here, i'll help you. that sprite's a total cunt-faced bitch. that should start things rolling again.

You think of yourself as "a total cunt-faced bitch" ??????? That really is indicative of absolutely lousy self-esteem. I'd really encourage you.......

.....Oh, wait. Oh, I get it! You typed that on your keyboard and clicked 'Post' to try to put those words in MY mouth. As a way to attack and insult me, and to trick people into believing (and who undoubtedly would just love to believe) that I actual said anything remotely like that.

I'm sure you're a perfectly nice person, and I have enjoyed the stories of yours I've read.

But do you really feel so threatened by the concept that Lush, while a good site that I consider contributing some dollars to as well spent, might be less than perfect that you have to go to such absurd extremities to attack me?

21 Apr 2014

FINALLY! SHEESH!

Quote by bethalia
What I said (and perhaps a bit with an injudicious choice of words....

huh - YA THINK?

Quote by bethalia
.....that nonetheless conveyed accurate concepts) was that the behavior Possibly (and her co-author) engaged in was shitty and clueless.

When you write this sentence - "I mean, are people at Lush really that shitty or clueless?" - well, actually, no - it doesn't have any chicken scratch to do with "behaviour". It is a stand-alone sentence that outright labelled her as such, but hey! thanks for the ole sneaky word thing going again! laughing6

21 Apr 2014

Who dug this thing up, anyways?

No one cares anymore. Your 15 minutes of fame were over long before this thread faded into obscurity and you decided to bring it back to the forefront to give us more of your mock-indignant attitude.

We get it. Someone hurt your feelings via the internet. Dislodge your head from your rectum and let it go. Have a drink or two. It's just sad on your part, at this point.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░

21 Apr 2014

Quote by TheDevilsWeakness
By the way... Who do I have to perform sexual favours for to get an RR?

I don't know, or can't remember, for whom I provided sexual favours in exchange for a RR on my first story....

Want to spend some time wallowing in a Recommended Read? Pick one! Or two! Or seven!

Drill Day - Tension
Double Oxer - Beribboned And Bowed - Blood Lust - Losing It - My Favourite Word

21 Apr 2014

Quote by Dani
Who dug this thing up, anyways?

No one cares anymore. Your 15 minutes of fame were over long before this thread faded into obscurity and you decided to bring it back to the forefront to give us more of your mock-indignant attitude.

We get it. Someone hurt your feelings via the internet. Dislodge your head from your rectum and let it go. Have a drink or two. It's just sad on your part, at this point.

Dani, you hurt my feelings. Will kiss them and make it better??

HeraTeleia, I'm sure you only received said rr because you're a female evil4

Are you sure?