"Recommended Read" Requirements

3 May 2014

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but do the story moderators have any guidance to help them decide whether a poem or story is made a “Recommended Read”? It’s just that I’ve seen a couple of poems recently that have been given an “RR” which I don’t think deserve it. I’d expect an “RR” poem to scan properly at least (unless it was “free verse”) but the ones I’m thinking of didn’t. Regardless of what they were trying to say, on a technical level they failed. So did they deserve an “RR”? I don’t think so. Would you award an “RR” to something that was punctuated and spelt badly? It’s not so very different.

I’m ready to take some flak for this, but I think it’s important that "RR"s should highlight the very best of Lush, and we may be letting ourselves down a bit here.

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3 May 2014

RR's are awarded by individual moderators. As that is the case, they are a personal recommendation rather than a collective one by the moderating team as a whole.

RR's should showcase the double cream of Lush, but judging that off ones own back brings into play an individual's ideas and concepts of what that encompasses. Certainly stories full of punctuation and grammatical issues should not be awarded, but poetry is a more subjective thing.

What floats one person's boat, won't necessarily float everyone else's.

@Lizerotica

3 May 2014

To me, poetry is far more subjective field of writing than typical prose.

You may have your "rules" but really, when it comes to poetry, there really aren't rules. Countless poets, famous ones, have broken the rules from what I can remember in school.

I also view poems the same as raps. And poetry slams. If the lines have a beat to them, a rhythm and some rhyme, I honestly don't care how it is formatted.

I don't read a lot of it, so when something jumps out at me, it jumps out at me as being good.

Not all mods agree, necessarily. RRs are kind of like staff picks at Barnes and Noble or another bookstore.

Like Liz said....

What floats one person's boat, won't necessarily float everyone else's.

3 May 2014

Agree with naughtyannie. At the very least, a story carrying the exclusive RR rosette should be free of typos, and syntax- grammar- and punctuation-perfect.

3 May 2014

I'm not a story moderator, so I could be terribly mistaken, but to my understanding Recommended Reads are based on the story itself. As Liz said, each individual moderator chooses of their own accord a story that they think was so good, they recommend others to read it, and this may be despite some errors and technicalities. And as I said, it's based on the story itself. And from the Recommended Reads that I've actually read, the errors weren't so bad that it took away from the quality of the story itself. If that were the case, I'm sure an RR wouldn't be awarded.

On the other hand, Editor's Picks are much different. These are voted on by the team as a whole. And this is where things like grammar, punctuation, technicalities, etc. are all considered before this is awarded. There isn't much room for error when it comes to Editor's Picks.

So I think Recommended Reads are the more lax of the two awards, but the stories are still very good.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░

3 May 2014

Quote by Dani
I'm not a story moderator, so I could be terribly mistaken

So I think Recommended Reads are the more lax of the two awards, but the stories are still very good.

Precious, Dani. You're actually correct! evil4

RRs are basically a half rung below EPs. Which is what I've come to understand. Both RRs and EPs are judged HEAVILY on story content first and foremost. Then you take into account technical errors.

RRs are given to stories where, even with minor technical glitches here and there, the STORY itself overrides all those incidental fuck-ups that every writer alive misses without a professional editor.

EPs start out as RRs and moderators nominate an RR story to go up for an EP. Senior verifiers then debate the story and go all hawkish over any possible technical errors. Just a few errors alone can prevent you from getting the # of votes for an EP.

But really, again, it all starts with individual mod preference generally. If we were moved by a particular story or the writer wrote a story in such an intriguing and interesting way, the story deserves that RR because we don't want it floundering in the wind when it deserves as many reads as possible.

Like I said, view like staff picks at a bookstore for RRs.

View EPs as, to make an analogy, the New York Times Best Seller list. Only for Lush.

3 May 2014

We are an amateur story site, but with an outstanding reputation for excellence as an erotic story site.

Lush, an English language site, encompasses the English speaking world. Throughout the world, there are variations of punctuation and spelling within the language. As moderators, we are keenly aware of the differences between the UK and the USA, Canada often falling in between. Australia uses the UK version. You also have India and their unique use of English as well as other countries to consider.

Poetry is very subjective. Poetic creativity is common and often interpreted differently, sometimes by region and sometimes by individuals. I am sure we have all heard the expression 'poetic license.'

RRs are awarded by individual story verifiers, as stated by others above. You may or may not agree with each one, and in almost every case I doubt there will ever be 100% agreement. Even EPs, which are nominated from the best of the RR pool and voted on, will probably never be agreed on by everyone.

The story moderators are chosen because they have exhibited excellent writing skills which includes their technical ability. We all do our very best. I think the poetry RRs seem to be very well chosen.

The qualifying guidelines for submissions are well documented.

3 May 2014

I'll agree that poetry is quite subjective, as is various forms of art. And also as it is in the art world, there are certain identifiers used to classify it. Needless to say there are a lot of classifications. So much more is involved than just how it's laid on the paper and how visually soothing you find it. There are things like content, complexity and word choice. Fluidity and consistency is a noticeable one. You can focus on rhyme and meter, if the writer is choosing to use rhyme or meter. However, every metered line and every rhymed line does not a good poem make. For me, and I have been writing/reading/studying poets and poetry every sense I was a little girl so I am going to look at it differently, I can look at a poem and tell how much effort and forethought has been put into it technically sometimes. It can be subtle or it can be overt. I get paid to talk about fiction, poetry and writers all day. I’d do it for free. Does that make me a good writer or the perfect judge? I would be a fool if I assumed that. Like a song on the radio, that hit song in your mind might not ever make the top 100, let alone the top 20. But it speaks to you and resonates in your mind. Unconscientiously you hum it when your mind is quiet within or out loud. That's cool. That is what music is all about. As far as poetry goes, you can't compare William Carlos Williams' "The Red Wheelbarrow" with Walt Whitman's "Song of Myself". That would be ridiculous. Or, you can't compare Claude McKay's "If We Must Die" to Grand Masters Flash's "The Message". Yet, the first two are part of the American cannon of poetry. The latter two are both in the Norton Anthology of African American Poetry. You can't compare Ntozake Shange's "it's not so good to be born a girl/sometimes" (and yes there is no punctuation other than slashes and no capital letters--that all represents something in itself without even reading the words) to "Spelling" by Margaret Atwood. Both of those poems are talking about the same exact challenge of being a woman and feeling your own power. Those are just American contemporary poets. If you don't even know who they are or have never read them (I'm not even going to mention the obvious: or have ever written a poem yourself in the style that you feel comfortable with judging), don't go there and say that an award winning poem does not deserve an award. It involves a little bit more than just what you are comfortable with as an individual.

Naughtyannie, I've read your poem "If I Had a Boyfriend". That’s the only one I saw on your page. I, for one, write what I'd like to read. Toni Morrison said, "I wrote my first book because I wanted to read it." That's how I feel about everything I write. So, most likely, your poem is a reflection of what you like to read. I for one can't stand simplistic rhyme and meter that reminds me of adolescent lit. However, there are some beautiful poems on here that do exactly that--and it works for them. It works. You've 878 readers, out of that 24 people voted. Out of the 878 readers only 18 cared enough to leave a comment. Most of the people that bothered to vote gave you a 5, but maybe 2 gave you a 4. You averaged a 5. According to Lush, your poem is "Excellent". I have a poem, my favorite actually, and it didn't get a recommended read. I swear I love it to death. The poem is called "My Body A Poem". How can you compare:

...I fucked Nat and Mat and big fat Pat/And Ken and Lynn and Prue,/And if you wink and smile at me/I'll let you fuck me too... (I chose this stanza because you put emphasis on it yourself within the body of the poem.)

... I felt your touch,/The heat of your breath on my skin,/A palpable thing./Your tongue/On the tip of my breast’s darkened peak,/Not just hands stretched across my smooth surface./Your fingers pressed into my flesh./You felt muscle./You felt weakness/You feel me/And you squeeze/A needed pain...

Now, "My Body A Poem" received a perfect 5 (which remember, on Lush means it's excellent). 1,745 people viewed it. Out of 1,745 people, only 71 people thought enough of it to vote and 64 people thought enough about it to comment on it. I gained 5 followers off of that one poem. One of those followers is the one I was actually thinking about when I wrote the poem, but I'll never tell him that. I love his poetry just that much. And, you know what he calls himself? He calls himself an old hack. He won't even fess up to how good of a writer he is. He despises compititions. He doesn't see himself that way. I think he is excellent and I suck. 71 people think that I'm excellent (in that instance at least). My friends will tell you that I sweat bullets when I submit a poem. There is one poem I submitted and I couldn't look at the responses for three days because the poem hurt so much to write. The idea that someone would throw my emotion back at me and say it's only worth a 2 would definitely have hurt. It took me thirty minutes to write that poem and there is more of me in it than poems I've mulled over for days.

I don't know what you put into your poem. Twenty-four people felt it and loved it. They think you are excellent. Is my poem better than yours? It's mine and I love it. But, it amazes me that anyone bothers to read me, let alone understands what I'm talking about. For all the readers that didn't kick us off the island, our poetry rocks. Neither of us received a RR. But, we rock.

The mods on this site are the cream of the crop. They are some outstanding writers. There are a lot more people saying that they rock as individuals than you and I could put together. Each of them is different and each of them is brilliant. When they do hand out a RR badge, they are really in the position to do so. Look at their numbers, their writing, the time they invest in this art of writing. I'm a mod and I can't even give myself a RR badge. I have to earn it. I have no recipe for that. I don't even think they like me, let alone read me. But when one of them does, I’m honored. If they like it, I'm ecstatic. I'll tell my son, who worships me. He looks at me with all sincerity and asks if they are going to give me any money. I reply and he humps up his shoulders. My poetry just earned about 60 seconds of his consideration. And not only does he possess an extremely high IQ, he worships me.

Stop whining.

But, my opinion is as important as yours. We will have to rely on how many fives we get. Uhm…I don’t think that’s going to affect whether we feel it’s legitimate or not.

Peace and love. Peace and love...and sex. flower

? A True Story ?

3 May 2014

...I'm NOT going to quote/copy ABG's commentary, but I will say I REALLY appreciate her insight and intellect concerning poetry and writing in general. I've never said I was a "writer" ... but when I scribble out some thoughts and feelings, I try to remember some skills / lessons from over 50 years ago from high school English classes. I just wish now that as good as my teachers were then, that I had had a teacher that was as passionate about her teaching / craft as ABG seems to be.

To AverageBlackGirl...YOU are anything BUT "average"... and I mean that as a compliment.

http://www.lushstories.com/stories/love-stories/exit-33-trust.aspx

3 May 2014

As a story mod, I have to tell you that RRs are not the very best of this site, EPs are the creme de le creme here.

When I read stories here, and I read a lot, I read for content and with the intention of awarding a RR or nominating them for the EP. Technical issues do not come into play here unless they are the fault of the author. And honestly, in most cases those issues should be dispensed with by the mod awarding the story. Sometimes the spacing is skewed in poems by the system and I would not withhold an award for such an issue.

Click here to read the Recommended Read, Confessions Of A Virgin Slut

Click here to read the Editors' Pick, All Of Me

Click here to read the "Spice It Up" Competition winning, An Unexpected Desire

3 May 2014

Honestly, as a story mod I think this is a valid point to bring up. There are guidelines for awarding recommended reads, but as Liz said, because RRs are given out by individual moderators, there's always going to be someone who disagrees with their decision. RRs are very subjective; grammatically, we require excellence, but context-wise its very much so up to the moderator and their taste in stories. It's especially subjective with poetry.

As coco said, the EPs here are what we consider 'the best of the best', and those are not chosen by single mods.

I think this thread needs to be put to rest though, her point has been addressed and anything else can be discussed via PM. Just my thoughts..

3 May 2014

Quote by Liz
RR's are awarded by individual moderators. As that is the case, they are a personal recommendation rather than a collective one by the moderating team as a whole.

RR's should showcase the double cream of Lush, but judging that off ones own back brings into play an individual's ideas and concepts of what that encompasses. Certainly stories full of punctuation and grammatical issues should not be awarded, but poetry is a more subjective thing.

What floats one person's boat, won't necessarily float everyone else's.

This. Poetry especially can touch people in different ways. It can be fun or emotional or beautifully composed with flowing verse. I'd worry if I were to see RR's on works that were not well accepted by the general readership often getting such rewards, but when something is well received and you see an RR, it should indicate that it does have meaning to at least a section of our members.

3 May 2014

Quote by naughtyannie
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but do the story moderators have any guidance to help them decide whether a poem or story is made a “Recommended Read”? It’s just that I’ve seen a couple of poems recently that have been given an “RR” which I don’t think deserve it. I’d expect an “RR” poem to scan properly at least (unless it was “free verse”) but the ones I’m thinking of didn’t. Regardless of what they were trying to say, on a technical level they failed. So did they deserve an “RR”? I don’t think so. Would you award an “RR” to something that was punctuated and spelt badly? It’s not so very different.

I’m ready to take some flak for this, but I think it’s important that "RR"s should highlight the very best of Lush, and we may be letting ourselves down a bit here.

I agree with you..

3 May 2014

Thanks to everyone for your comments, and especially for taking my post seriously - it wasn't posted lightly, and I was very nervous to see how it was taken.

I agree that everyone's response to poetry is different, and by its nature subjective, but my comment wasn't really about the content, but about the form. I wasn't so much thinking about the more "free-form" type of poetry that Avrgblkgrl does so well, but those poems that attempt to work within the more traditional rhyming stanzas, but don't get it quite right. I find it frustrating when my enjoyment of a poem is spoilt by irregular metre and "beat". There are great artists in all art forms who can get away with breaking the rules, but only after they have mastered the rules first.

If anybody wants to discuss this with me further, outside the public forums, please send me a PM.

3 May 2014

I realize that I'm a bit late to the table for this discussion, but I'd like to add a few comments.

Earning an RR is an honor and a privilege. Some authors have earned many, some only 1 or 2. I myself have 4, though I feel it's three as 2 are for the 2 parts of one story. That being said, I am still shocked that the Mods who gave me those did. I have always written what I would like to read. Typos slip by the best of us.

Not all stories & poems that have earned an RR are my "cup of tea" if you will. I was a Mod for over 6 months before I gave my first RR. I personally only give them on a story or poem that affect me personally on some level. I guess that's my "requirement" for a Recommended Read.

I'm still working to earn an EP, that elusive prize still evades me, but I keep writing and one day... maybe... I will earn it.

Keep writing, keep improving, keep growing. I'm sure one day you'll earn you own RR and EP.

EDIT: My latest RR was for a poem about my husband. It was my 1st poem and I'm blessed it's been received so well.

3 May 2014

Shit poems are the worst culprits for cheap RRs on Lush and there are loads of them - but then they're judged by people who don't necessarily have any idea what good poetry is. This is why they say it's "subjective".

Most of it is just teenage diary garbage. This kind of unmitigated tosh:

"I gave you my soul complete.
Lost within your kisses sweet"*

All me, me, me. Nothing that actually kicks you in the ribs.

Meter and rhyme is a tricky problem on here. Americans, scots, welsh, Aussies, scousers they all stretch and merge syllables in different ways. First time I read one of Mazza's poems I thought - this is close to being perfect but it just doesn't read right. I then read it in a Glaswegian accent and it was amazing.

[* I made this up on the spot]

Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

Why not read some stories instead

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3 May 2014

Quote by overmykneenow
"I gave you my soul complete.
Lost within your kisses sweet"*

RR'd.

3 May 2014

lol, Nicola. A good thread and a good discussion. There's some good writing here, and there's some writing that I don't consider that good. But I get to decide which is which. If I feel strongly positive, I score it and sometimes leave a comment. If I don't like it, I don't score it, as I know how much a low score hurts the writer's feelings. I'm not here to hurt anyone's feelings. I just like dirty pictures and well written erotica that makes me breath faster. To each his own.

“It's nice sometimes to open up the heart a little and let some hurt come in. It proves you're still alive.”

3 May 2014

Retracted. This was somewhat challenging and not my intention

3 May 2014

Quote by overmykneenow
Shit poems are the worst culprits for cheap RRs on Lush and there are loads of them - but then they're judged by people who don't necessarily have any idea what good poetry is. This is why they say it's "subjective".

Most of it is just teenage diary garbage. This kind of unmitigated tosh:

"I gave you my soul complete.
Lost within your kisses sweet"*

All me, me, me. Nothing that actually kicks you in the ribs.

Meter and rhyme is a tricky problem on here. Americans, scots, welsh, Aussies, scousers they all stretch and merge syllables in different ways. First time I read one of Mazza's poems I thought - this is close to being perfect but it just doesn't read right. I then read it in a Glaswegian accent and it was amazing.

[* I made this up on the spot]

Love you G
Xxx

Nothing to see here...

4 May 2014

Joking aside, all our moderators have been chosen on merit. I back the ability and judgement of each and every one of them.

That's not to say I agree with every RR handed out, but do typically agree 9 times out of 10.

Each moderator has been given a set of guidelines as to what merits an RR. We also check those stories regularly, to ensure standards are being maintained.

It wouldn't hurt to revisit the guide, and to do another audit of that category, if this is a genuine concern.

4 May 2014

Write should be judge with a name being addressed to it first. I just got my first RR after over 200 postings. I am very proud of it and now its been trashed. This is not entirely a fault of Lush, but there should be a way to get around it.

1. Cant score unless you have posted works
2. Must write within 30 days of joining

4 May 2014

Quote by adagio_sabadicus
Write should be judge with a name being addressed to it first. I just got my first RR after over 200 postings. I am very proud of it and now its been trashed. This is not entirely a fault of Lush, but there should be a way to get around it.

1. Cant score unless you have posted works
2. Must write within 30 days of joining

I'm confused as to what these suggestions pertain to...

Click here to read the Recommended Read, Confessions Of A Virgin Slut

Click here to read the Editors' Pick, All Of Me

Click here to read the "Spice It Up" Competition winning, An Unexpected Desire

4 May 2014

Quote by adagio_sabadicus
Write should be judge with a name being addressed to it first. I just got my first RR after over 200 postings. I am very proud of it and now its been trashed. This is not entirely a fault of Lush, but there should be a way to get around it.

1. Cant score unless you have posted works
2. Must write within 30 days of joining

Additionally, people who score a two or three on a perfectly proofread story which has character development, plot, vivid scenes, catching dialogs and up to then only received fives, just because they didn't look at the category or tags and expected something different, should have to report to the moderators' office for corporal attitude readjustment measures. Alas, we don't live in a perfect world, and raising the barrier to vote may turn Lush into a feedback desert.

I'm not sure if I fully understand your post, but perfect votes have nothing to do with earning an RR. If anything, a big part of the thought behind the RR was to draw readers towards exceptional stories that would otherwise fly under the radar and receive less votes than they deserve.

On the concern about poetry quality and RRs there - I usually make a wide berth around these categories. But that's not something unique to Lush. I adore classic poetry, and most pieces that I read don't work for me. They do work for others though. I like to compare it to classic music and blues. A dedicated classic fan will likely call me a moron and get up in arms if I weave a line from "Für Elise" into a freestyle blues session on the organ and let it blare through the house with all registers pulled. What can I say, it does work for me, even if some of the blue notes come out purple or pink instead.

4 May 2014

My very first story landed me a RR, which was great, at first, but then became terribly intimidating. I had to talk it through with another member to gather the courage to post my second story, "Falling", had to accept that I probably wouldn't garner another RR but that there were other, more important things than an RR, like reader commentary.

Want to spend some time wallowing in a Recommended Read? Pick one! Or two! Or seven!

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4 May 2014

Quote by JuneFernan
A recommended read is usually just an indicator of how many mods are on your friends list and how often you post in the forums or give soaring praise on other stories. Make yourself look popular on this site and you'll get RR's. At least that's the way it seems to me.

Actually, it tends to be the other way around. Writing well attracts the mods. If you write well enough, you catch my(and other mods) interest. Catch our interest you are likely to get us on your friends list and be asked to be a mod yourself. It all starts with good writing.

I can name several people who are now mods who instantly attracted my interest through their stories. Not only were they well written grammatically, but they were complex stories that drew me in and kept my attention. I then sought them out as individuals. Conversely, if I read your stories and you lose my attention through flat 2 dimensional writing, cliches, or poor grammar, I am unlikely to be interested in conversing with you, no matter the topic.

4 May 2014

Quote by HeraTeleia
My very first story landed me a RR, which was great, at first, but then became terribly intimidating. I had to talk it through with another member to gather the courage to post my second story, "Falling", had to accept that I probably wouldn't garner another RR but that there were other, more important things than an RR, like reader commentary.

I like comments and scores, who doesn't, but I much prefer the number of views.
I don't think you should set your stall out by the RR award, it's just a mod happens to like a particular story, an EP however is a real accolade. The badges that I would like would be famous or legendary story. These are harder to get as the number of stories is so vast, 100,000 views is almost impossible these days.

4 May 2014

Quote by JuneFernan
A recommended read is usually just an indicator of how many mods are on your friends list and how often you post in the forums or give soaring praise on other stories. Make yourself look popular on this site and you'll get RR's. At least that's the way it seems to me. Maybe I'm just bitter that none of my stories got it.

This is precisely the kind of disrespectful post, that gets the mods' and my back up.

Stories are awarded an RR or indeed an EP, on merit. It has nothing to do with who wrote them, who's friends with whom, or any other ridiculous conspiracy theory you might wish to invent.

The inference of foul play relating to any aspect of the site - awards, competition results etc, is one sure way, to get on the wrong side of the admin staff here.

If you'd spent over 7 years creating a site, and indeed an entire community, designed from the ground up, to help authors improve, and give them the opportunity to show off their work to a huge audience, in the most impartial and ethical way possible, then you'd probably feel the same about these kind of threads.

4 May 2014

Quote by JuneFernan
A recommended read is usually just an indicator of how many mods are on your friends list and how often you post in the forums or give soaring praise on other stories. Make yourself look popular on this site and you'll get RR's. At least that's the way it seems to me. Maybe I'm just bitter that none of my stories got it.

Please don't associate me with this post. I don't think this is true at all. I have lots of Mods on my friends list, usually because they're also great writers whose work I enjoy. And I would be mortified if I thought I was given preferential treatment for this reason - and as you can see, I haven't!

Most of the posts in response to my original one have been respectful and thoughtful - let's keep it that way, please.

4 May 2014

Quote by dpw

I don't think you should set your stall out by the RR award, it's just a mod happens to like a particular story, an EP however is a real accolade.

Actually, we as story mods do not hand out RRs lightly at all or just because we 'like' a story. Our goal is award a story that is exceptional. If the story is truly outstanding on a superior level in our opinion, we then nominate the RR'd story for an EP. If I like the story I'll vote and comment. If it's excellent I'll rave, if it's above that it will get an RR. If the story is among the best of the best in my opinion I will nominate it for an EP.

I can honestly say, that when I've awarded an RR, I feel like I am breaking out into a nervous sweat. I only award a story or poem if I truly feel that is is deserving, no matter who the author is. Before clicking that box, I ask myself if I will be criticized for my decision. Then I go back over the story or poem and reread it, making sure that it meets the criteria. It is not an easy decision.

I will continue to make the hard decisions and award an RR when I think the story deserves it. I have nominated several stories for EPs and I have a pretty good batting average on nominating stories that receive the award.

Being a story mod is certainly no easy task, it's actually damn hard work. We make difficult decisions everyday on whether stories can be verified or rejected. Of course many writers make that task easy when they write and submit quality material. We have to be aware of all the site rules and we read each story for grammar acceptability and rules violations.

If you receive an RR you will earn it.