You might end up having to do it yourself.
I got interested some years ago in the concept of wagering with stakes other than money. The premise seemed an interesting one to pursue. There are so many directions it can go, so many ways characters can react to the experience, and so many impacts that could occur in terms of the characters life and relationships. I ended up writing a whole series of stories on that premise.
But the point is that I went looking for stories that already existed based on that premise, and found almost nothing that was done well (one great exception that is very, very well done is here at lush - visioneer's story Lucia Makes a Bet). But I finally came to the conclusion that it really was a matter that if I wanted it done right I had to do it myself.
Maybe that will end up being the case with you. I'm not into upskirt stuff, but within that context your idea seems like a good one and perhaps you should try writing it. No one knows the story you want to tell better than you.
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bethalia
Over 90 days ago
Straight Male, 72
United States
Forum
Advanced Wordsmith
Wanted to note that if you're publishing a story at smashwords.com you can either supply your own purchased ISBN, or smashwords will assign one for free. Either way the ISBN would only apply to the ebook version of your story.
Advanced Wordsmith
I really don't. I sometimes get feedback from a reader who has picked up on some aspect of one of my stories that reflect one of his/her sexual interests. And they get in touch just to say thanks for the story, or express how much they enjoyed it. But they'll assume that because they found their favorite in one of my stories that I must have that interest as well. I have to remind him/her that Herman Melville never spent a single day of his life sailing the world's oceans in a deranged search for a white whale. So, no, I've never been in one of my stories. Occasionally, an experience of mine, or some aspect of my relationship(s) might inform a character's attitude or viewpoint, but that's about as far as it goes.
Using a character in multiple stories is something I've done. I have a seven story series at smashwords called Taking Chances. Each of the seven volumes is a self-contained story that can stand by itself (although without reading the stories in order a reader might lose some continuity and background). But really the seven volumes are a continuing, much larger story, so characters drift in and out of the larger tale, appearing in some volumes and not in others.
Using a character in multiple stories is something I've done. I have a seven story series at smashwords called Taking Chances. Each of the seven volumes is a self-contained story that can stand by itself (although without reading the stories in order a reader might lose some continuity and background). But really the seven volumes are a continuing, much larger story, so characters drift in and out of the larger tale, appearing in some volumes and not in others.
Advanced Wordsmith
One way to handle it is to just avoid the issue. Everyone (including characters) have to have something they do. But unless what, very specifically, they're doing and the details of their specific occupation are central to the plot then there is really no need to go there in any detail.
In one story I have two women who work together in Chicago. They run an office in a larger company that provides training in house, and they work training clients who buy the company's proprietary processes/products. But I don't have to at all go into the details of their work day - there's just no reason to have to do that.
A character in another story is a young executive working at the Chicago branch of his London investment bank. But there is no need for me to document any part of his day or detail the sort of projects he works with. What he does is (when you get to the bottom line) just a plausible excuse/explanation to get this English character into Chicago to interact with other characters. I could as easily made him American, but I wanted just a more out of the ordinary character.
So, really give it some thought and decide how much you really need to know about a particular occupation/profession in the context of your story. Are those details absolutely central and crucial to the plot being able to work?
Doing location research is a lot easier. That story set in Chicago - I can remember years ago once changing planes at O'Hare. But other than that I've never been in Chicago. But the internet makes place research very easy. For the story/plot to work I had to be pretty specific about several location: Grant Park and Buckingham Fountain, Cloud Gate, The Loop, Schiller Woods, but maps, pictures, etc. were easy to find. And I've gotten feedback from readers who live in Chicago that the descriptions were good and an accurate rendering of those places.
In one story I have two women who work together in Chicago. They run an office in a larger company that provides training in house, and they work training clients who buy the company's proprietary processes/products. But I don't have to at all go into the details of their work day - there's just no reason to have to do that.
A character in another story is a young executive working at the Chicago branch of his London investment bank. But there is no need for me to document any part of his day or detail the sort of projects he works with. What he does is (when you get to the bottom line) just a plausible excuse/explanation to get this English character into Chicago to interact with other characters. I could as easily made him American, but I wanted just a more out of the ordinary character.
So, really give it some thought and decide how much you really need to know about a particular occupation/profession in the context of your story. Are those details absolutely central and crucial to the plot being able to work?
Doing location research is a lot easier. That story set in Chicago - I can remember years ago once changing planes at O'Hare. But other than that I've never been in Chicago. But the internet makes place research very easy. For the story/plot to work I had to be pretty specific about several location: Grant Park and Buckingham Fountain, Cloud Gate, The Loop, Schiller Woods, but maps, pictures, etc. were easy to find. And I've gotten feedback from readers who live in Chicago that the descriptions were good and an accurate rendering of those places.
Advanced Wordsmith
I just had a story called Even Steven that was published on lush today (or maybe it's yesterday by now). How you transition is a matter of where you are and where you need to go. I know that doesn't really help much. But if you read Even Steven you'll get some idea of how it can be done. And here are some notes to guide you through he story.
The first section of the story lays out the central dramatic conflict. In this case, what happened then and what is happen now. We put the two characters (who've not seen each other between then and now) in touch. We set up a little of what's happening in the present (attending a wedding), relate that to what's happening between the two characters. Then we move ten years back. It's simply a matter of writing: "The unfinished business." (Yes, I know it's a sentence fragment, but it's what works best there) and we're off into what happened ten years before. Of course, I had to make sure I'd introduced at the beginning of the story that there was something unsettle between these two, so the reference to "unfinished business" is just a matter of going back to something mentioned earlier (and hopefully the reader has been wondering about).
After we go through what happened ten years before we come to the first big transition.
In the first section we had Annie and Bradley in the past and Annie and Bradley in the present. Now at this big transition we're moving on to Annie and Ginny in the present. You'll notice I always like to use some visual clue to a big transition - usually three centered asterisks. That first paragraph after the asterisks is an illustration of one way to handle the transition - we've moved from Saturday night before the asterisks to Sunday morning after and we do two things in the first paragraph: mention what went before (a reference to the wedding) and then on to the new character. You'll notice I spent a paragraph in the first section of the story talking a little about Ginny, Annie and Ginny's meeting, and the nature of Annie and Ginny's relationship. That is important so that so important a character as Ginny doesn't just suddenly appear from thin air.
In the second section of the story we go through this conversation/interaction Annie and Ginny have over coffee and pastries - the tension rising as Annie tells Ginny about what she's done, the relation to Ginny's past, etc. And we finish the section with Ginny leaving and some hard feelings between the friends.
We then come to the second big transition to the third section, again using the asterisks.
In the beginning of the third section I do what I didn't do at the beginning of the second section - drop a completely new and unanticipated character into the story. But that is another way to do a transition - get the reader wondering about a new character. There is no preparation for Pat. In the first sentence of the third section she's just talking and there's no immediate explanation of who she is or why she's in the story. It's a full page before we find out the who and why of Pat. I felt I could handle Pat differently from Ginny - Ginny is a major character with a major interaction with Annie, but Pat is just a minor character, so we can be a little loose with her. Also. It makes sense that Annie might want to see a counselor over the central conflict in the story, so Pat makes sense. But really Pat's only real function in the story is to supply the reader with some information that becomes important to the resolution at the end of the story.
After we're done with Pat we come to the third big transition - into the fourth section. Again, three centered asterisks.
We move from Annie and Pat to Annie and Steven. We've been hearing about Steven all through the story, so his appearance is no surprise. We end the third section with anticipation of a dreaded moment ("So, I nervously passed the last few days until his return.") Then we begin the fourth section with some misdirection - and that's another method/technique for handling a transition. The first sentence in the fourth section is Steven saying, "Annie, what made you do it?" We know about Annie's infidelity and the idea is to propel the reader into the last section of the story by giving the reader the immediate impression that Steven is reacting to Annie's infidelity, and hopefully the reader thinks she's spilled the beans. We quickly find out that the exclamation is related to Annie getting the new bed. But the misdirection serves as a good kickoff.
I know this is a lot more than you were likely looking for, but the story illustrates there are a few ways to do transitions, and when to do them, and why.
All three transitions involve moving to a section of the story involving pairings of different characters: Section one Introduction and Annie and Bradley. Transition. Section two: Annie and Ginny. Transition. Section three: Annie and Pat. Transition. Section four: Annie and Steven.
And three different things to do to help the transition. Transition one - to a new and major character whose presence is foreshadowed in the first section. Transition two - to a new and minor character whose introduction is sudden and unexpected (and has the reader wondering for a while just who she is). Transition three - introducing a new major character we've been hearing about the whole story (and making his introduction one that misdirects the reader into thinking the crisis is immediately at hand when it isn't.)
Hope this is helpful.
The first section of the story lays out the central dramatic conflict. In this case, what happened then and what is happen now. We put the two characters (who've not seen each other between then and now) in touch. We set up a little of what's happening in the present (attending a wedding), relate that to what's happening between the two characters. Then we move ten years back. It's simply a matter of writing: "The unfinished business." (Yes, I know it's a sentence fragment, but it's what works best there) and we're off into what happened ten years before. Of course, I had to make sure I'd introduced at the beginning of the story that there was something unsettle between these two, so the reference to "unfinished business" is just a matter of going back to something mentioned earlier (and hopefully the reader has been wondering about).
After we go through what happened ten years before we come to the first big transition.
In the first section we had Annie and Bradley in the past and Annie and Bradley in the present. Now at this big transition we're moving on to Annie and Ginny in the present. You'll notice I always like to use some visual clue to a big transition - usually three centered asterisks. That first paragraph after the asterisks is an illustration of one way to handle the transition - we've moved from Saturday night before the asterisks to Sunday morning after and we do two things in the first paragraph: mention what went before (a reference to the wedding) and then on to the new character. You'll notice I spent a paragraph in the first section of the story talking a little about Ginny, Annie and Ginny's meeting, and the nature of Annie and Ginny's relationship. That is important so that so important a character as Ginny doesn't just suddenly appear from thin air.
In the second section of the story we go through this conversation/interaction Annie and Ginny have over coffee and pastries - the tension rising as Annie tells Ginny about what she's done, the relation to Ginny's past, etc. And we finish the section with Ginny leaving and some hard feelings between the friends.
We then come to the second big transition to the third section, again using the asterisks.
In the beginning of the third section I do what I didn't do at the beginning of the second section - drop a completely new and unanticipated character into the story. But that is another way to do a transition - get the reader wondering about a new character. There is no preparation for Pat. In the first sentence of the third section she's just talking and there's no immediate explanation of who she is or why she's in the story. It's a full page before we find out the who and why of Pat. I felt I could handle Pat differently from Ginny - Ginny is a major character with a major interaction with Annie, but Pat is just a minor character, so we can be a little loose with her. Also. It makes sense that Annie might want to see a counselor over the central conflict in the story, so Pat makes sense. But really Pat's only real function in the story is to supply the reader with some information that becomes important to the resolution at the end of the story.
After we're done with Pat we come to the third big transition - into the fourth section. Again, three centered asterisks.
We move from Annie and Pat to Annie and Steven. We've been hearing about Steven all through the story, so his appearance is no surprise. We end the third section with anticipation of a dreaded moment ("So, I nervously passed the last few days until his return.") Then we begin the fourth section with some misdirection - and that's another method/technique for handling a transition. The first sentence in the fourth section is Steven saying, "Annie, what made you do it?" We know about Annie's infidelity and the idea is to propel the reader into the last section of the story by giving the reader the immediate impression that Steven is reacting to Annie's infidelity, and hopefully the reader thinks she's spilled the beans. We quickly find out that the exclamation is related to Annie getting the new bed. But the misdirection serves as a good kickoff.
I know this is a lot more than you were likely looking for, but the story illustrates there are a few ways to do transitions, and when to do them, and why.
All three transitions involve moving to a section of the story involving pairings of different characters: Section one Introduction and Annie and Bradley. Transition. Section two: Annie and Ginny. Transition. Section three: Annie and Pat. Transition. Section four: Annie and Steven.
And three different things to do to help the transition. Transition one - to a new and major character whose presence is foreshadowed in the first section. Transition two - to a new and minor character whose introduction is sudden and unexpected (and has the reader wondering for a while just who she is). Transition three - introducing a new major character we've been hearing about the whole story (and making his introduction one that misdirects the reader into thinking the crisis is immediately at hand when it isn't.)
Hope this is helpful.
Advanced Wordsmith
A couple examples.
I have a seven story series published at smashwords. The seventh volume is about a young woman who has impulses toward dominance and submission. Both concepts seem to excite and fascinate her. Now, I'm aware that in the BDSM world/lifestyle there are many 'switches', people who go both ways - I suppose similar to people who are bi-sexual in the realm of more conventional sexual expression. So I was wondering how one went about sorting that conflict out, and got into writing fiction about it. As odd as it may seem, the opening event in the novel was inspired by a letter I'd read years ago in the Dear Ann Landers advice column!
I have a story called Even Steven I just submitted here that will be showing up whenever it gets through the screening process. The germ of the idea for that story came from a Dear Prudence advice column. Although, the story takes the letter/dilemma to an extent far beyond the issue in the original letter writer had presented in the column.
Advice columns can be a great source of ideas either for stories or for events within stories. The columns deal with all sorts of human conflicts, problems, emotions, relationships - the sort of stuff that makes for great fiction.
I have a seven story series published at smashwords. The seventh volume is about a young woman who has impulses toward dominance and submission. Both concepts seem to excite and fascinate her. Now, I'm aware that in the BDSM world/lifestyle there are many 'switches', people who go both ways - I suppose similar to people who are bi-sexual in the realm of more conventional sexual expression. So I was wondering how one went about sorting that conflict out, and got into writing fiction about it. As odd as it may seem, the opening event in the novel was inspired by a letter I'd read years ago in the Dear Ann Landers advice column!
I have a story called Even Steven I just submitted here that will be showing up whenever it gets through the screening process. The germ of the idea for that story came from a Dear Prudence advice column. Although, the story takes the letter/dilemma to an extent far beyond the issue in the original letter writer had presented in the column.
Advice columns can be a great source of ideas either for stories or for events within stories. The columns deal with all sorts of human conflicts, problems, emotions, relationships - the sort of stuff that makes for great fiction.
Advanced Wordsmith
Just because you are serious about writing a story or book doesn't mean you should go looking for a publisher. Now, an editor is a good idea.
I have a series of seven stories I published on smashwords some time ago. They're doing well enough, and I get to keep the great majority of the sales price. (Every three months when a check shows up in my mailbox I still get a feeling of wonder that anyone would pay real money to read my stories!)
I went through the submit to publishers route for a while. It's not worth it. Some publishers want submissions in some New Times Roman, some in Arial, some in Book Antiqua, some in 11 pt., some in 12 pt., most want double spaced, some want 1.5 spacing, a few want single space. It is a very rare publisher that just says send in submissions in whatever neat and readable format you have them in. The upshot is that you end up going through a great deal of trouble re-formatting your document file for each submission. And you go through all that trouble just so someone at the publisher (and likely someone who's less qualified in writing than I am, which is the real kicker) will skim a couple of pages.
I think some people need the validation of being 'accepted' by a publisher. But you can market your own material without the trouble.
The result of all my re-formatting and submitting was that I got three offers to publish. One of them I was able to reject out of hand as that publisher's author's cut was 20%, low even by industry standards. I went back and forth for a while with the other two. The result was that they wanted me to make significant changes in the stories (essentially dumbing them down, simplifying characters and plot, and drawing them more into line with erotica conventions and formulas), and I was unwell to do that. This was in regard to my seven story series Taking Chances. Both publishers were (with changes) willing to publish the first but were unwilling to commit to the rest in any way.
I can't tell you how relieved I am at this point that I didn't sign away the publication rights to that story. Had I done so I wouldn't be able to market the series myself as a complete seven volume set. I'd only have the right to publish volumes two through seven. I really fell as if I dodged a bullet there.
So my advice is don't bother with publishers.
An editor is a good idea (or at least a beta reader), as a person like that can help you in many way far beyond mere proofreading. I used to do some editing over at Literotica, but I found that most of the manuscripts I got were not remotely ready for editing - just for proofreading, and that's something I have no interest in doing.
Anyway, best wishes.
I have a series of seven stories I published on smashwords some time ago. They're doing well enough, and I get to keep the great majority of the sales price. (Every three months when a check shows up in my mailbox I still get a feeling of wonder that anyone would pay real money to read my stories!)
I went through the submit to publishers route for a while. It's not worth it. Some publishers want submissions in some New Times Roman, some in Arial, some in Book Antiqua, some in 11 pt., some in 12 pt., most want double spaced, some want 1.5 spacing, a few want single space. It is a very rare publisher that just says send in submissions in whatever neat and readable format you have them in. The upshot is that you end up going through a great deal of trouble re-formatting your document file for each submission. And you go through all that trouble just so someone at the publisher (and likely someone who's less qualified in writing than I am, which is the real kicker) will skim a couple of pages.
I think some people need the validation of being 'accepted' by a publisher. But you can market your own material without the trouble.
The result of all my re-formatting and submitting was that I got three offers to publish. One of them I was able to reject out of hand as that publisher's author's cut was 20%, low even by industry standards. I went back and forth for a while with the other two. The result was that they wanted me to make significant changes in the stories (essentially dumbing them down, simplifying characters and plot, and drawing them more into line with erotica conventions and formulas), and I was unwell to do that. This was in regard to my seven story series Taking Chances. Both publishers were (with changes) willing to publish the first but were unwilling to commit to the rest in any way.
I can't tell you how relieved I am at this point that I didn't sign away the publication rights to that story. Had I done so I wouldn't be able to market the series myself as a complete seven volume set. I'd only have the right to publish volumes two through seven. I really fell as if I dodged a bullet there.
So my advice is don't bother with publishers.
An editor is a good idea (or at least a beta reader), as a person like that can help you in many way far beyond mere proofreading. I used to do some editing over at Literotica, but I found that most of the manuscripts I got were not remotely ready for editing - just for proofreading, and that's something I have no interest in doing.
Anyway, best wishes.
Advanced Wordsmith
This is an unfortunate characteristic of sites like this. By and large, readers are just here to suck up stories. A huge number of readers will read a story. A tiny portion of those readers will bother to click a number. And a tiny portion of those readers will take the time to comment.
It's very selfish, but it's just the way people are: unappreciative greedheads.
I've published some of my stories on Literotica, too, and it's the same way there.
It's just something that a writer has to get used to and expect and live with.
That's why I so highly value readers who will show their appreciation by commenting on a story or getting in touch through email. They're real gems and I appreciate them taking the time. I make a point to respond to them very promptly as an encouragement.
Really, I think most writers look an comments and contacts from readers as 'payment' for a story (I do). Since that's the case I think the writers have to get used to eating a lot of spaghetti (figuratively speaking).
I like publishing at smashwords. There a check shows up in my mailbox once a quarter. But not all my stories seem right for marketing there, and I'm glad there are sites like this to have an outlet for other stories that are good for reading, but not necessarily naturally marketable.
It's very selfish, but it's just the way people are: unappreciative greedheads.
I've published some of my stories on Literotica, too, and it's the same way there.
It's just something that a writer has to get used to and expect and live with.
That's why I so highly value readers who will show their appreciation by commenting on a story or getting in touch through email. They're real gems and I appreciate them taking the time. I make a point to respond to them very promptly as an encouragement.
Really, I think most writers look an comments and contacts from readers as 'payment' for a story (I do). Since that's the case I think the writers have to get used to eating a lot of spaghetti (figuratively speaking).
I like publishing at smashwords. There a check shows up in my mailbox once a quarter. But not all my stories seem right for marketing there, and I'm glad there are sites like this to have an outlet for other stories that are good for reading, but not necessarily naturally marketable.
Advanced Wordsmith
This may be taking an answer to the extreme, but I'm old enough to remember when you wanted to write something you put a piece of paper in a typewriter. If you made a mistake you could take the piece of paper out and put in a new piece of paper and start that page from scratch. Or you could have an ink eraser and the thing would look like a mess. Then they came along with a new high tech innovation: white out. Problem solved, sort of.
A machine that stores everything you write? The ability to eliminate, add, or move paragraphs, rewrite, edit, make minor changes, without having to start from scratch? A Thesaurus right in the document? The internet to get stories to market and readers? Anyone who doesn't take advantage of all that must have rocks in their head.
"Oh no! I can't write on anything but a manual typewriter!" Good God, what an absurd affectation!
A machine that stores everything you write? The ability to eliminate, add, or move paragraphs, rewrite, edit, make minor changes, without having to start from scratch? A Thesaurus right in the document? The internet to get stories to market and readers? Anyone who doesn't take advantage of all that must have rocks in their head.
"Oh no! I can't write on anything but a manual typewriter!" Good God, what an absurd affectation!
Advanced Wordsmith
Absolutely nothing helps me except having a good idea for a plot and characters to pursue. Without that no music or setting or lighting or time of day or anything else will get anything worthwhile to come that's worth pushing the letters on a keyboard. With a good idea none of those factors, or the lack of them, will have any effect at all.
Advanced Wordsmith
I've never found that to be the case. What I write is usually very separate and different from what goes on in my personal life, although elements of my personal life and relationships tend to inform some of my characters' backgrounds and attitudes.
I sometimes get messages from readers that indicate they think I'm essentially writing fictionalized autobiographical stories. But that's not the case at all. I have to remind them that Herman Melville never spent a single day of his life sailing the world's oceans in a maniacal search for a white whale.
I sometimes get messages from readers that indicate they think I'm essentially writing fictionalized autobiographical stories. But that's not the case at all. I have to remind them that Herman Melville never spent a single day of his life sailing the world's oceans in a maniacal search for a white whale.
Advanced Wordsmith
How many words you need to tell a story is, I suppose, dictated by how much story you have to tell. A secondary consideration is what sort of reader you want to attract.
Some readers are looking for nothing (or little) more than a sexual thrill related to whatever their 'thing' is in regard to sexual orientation or practice or fetish. Those readers really don't need much story. Other readers very much prefer complete stories with developed plot and characterization.
I have a real difficulty writing anything under 10K words, but I prefer to write well-developed stories. The reactions I get from readers are very positive, but that is because by now readers know that I write developed stories and tend to gravitate toward them.
My Taking Chances series on smashwords is seven stories ranging in length from a 12K word 'short' story to a 143K word novel. But it simply takes more words to tell a story with characters that are well-rounded and developed with pasts and attitudes and values that guide their actions, a plot that works in the real world, and an interaction of characters and plot that is genuine, both to the real world and to the characters. Another complication is that the seven stories have a continuing plot and characters.
I've never considered myself a writer of 'erotica.' At least, I've never sat down at a keyboard with the intent of writing erotica. I just like to write stories. Those stories tend to explore issues in human sexuality, and I treat that sexuality in a frank and non-euphemized way. Consequently, my stories are only for adults. But I don't really look at them as erotica. They're just stories about characters and plot.
To answer your question directly, I suppose if you prefer less developed and shorter stories then perhaps you should work on writing what you like to read. That seems like the path of least resistance.
I think writers should look at the matter in the same way Mozart did. In the film Amadeus (nobody knows if an exchange similar to this really happened) Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II in critiquing one of Mozart's operas tells him (paraphrasing), "There are just too many notes. Just cut some of them out and the opera will be fine." And Mozart replies (paraphrasing), "But Your Highness, there are only as many notes as it takes to write the opera, no more and no less."
Just use as many words as it takes to tell the story you want to tell at the degree of development you think is right.
Some readers are looking for nothing (or little) more than a sexual thrill related to whatever their 'thing' is in regard to sexual orientation or practice or fetish. Those readers really don't need much story. Other readers very much prefer complete stories with developed plot and characterization.
I have a real difficulty writing anything under 10K words, but I prefer to write well-developed stories. The reactions I get from readers are very positive, but that is because by now readers know that I write developed stories and tend to gravitate toward them.
My Taking Chances series on smashwords is seven stories ranging in length from a 12K word 'short' story to a 143K word novel. But it simply takes more words to tell a story with characters that are well-rounded and developed with pasts and attitudes and values that guide their actions, a plot that works in the real world, and an interaction of characters and plot that is genuine, both to the real world and to the characters. Another complication is that the seven stories have a continuing plot and characters.
I've never considered myself a writer of 'erotica.' At least, I've never sat down at a keyboard with the intent of writing erotica. I just like to write stories. Those stories tend to explore issues in human sexuality, and I treat that sexuality in a frank and non-euphemized way. Consequently, my stories are only for adults. But I don't really look at them as erotica. They're just stories about characters and plot.
To answer your question directly, I suppose if you prefer less developed and shorter stories then perhaps you should work on writing what you like to read. That seems like the path of least resistance.
I think writers should look at the matter in the same way Mozart did. In the film Amadeus (nobody knows if an exchange similar to this really happened) Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II in critiquing one of Mozart's operas tells him (paraphrasing), "There are just too many notes. Just cut some of them out and the opera will be fine." And Mozart replies (paraphrasing), "But Your Highness, there are only as many notes as it takes to write the opera, no more and no less."
Just use as many words as it takes to tell the story you want to tell at the degree of development you think is right.
Advanced Wordsmith
Quote by 6by6
Rule of thumb, three to four sentences long. Keeps peoples minds focused on what you are saying. Go five sentences and above, chances their mind will wander increases with each additional sentence.
I'd be inclined to disagree. I think one should write paragraphs the way they need to be written, while keeping an eye on varying length. I like to be an optimist and hope my readers will have the attention span to stay focused beyond three or four sentences. Although, I suppose the reality of it is that some can and some can't. But I don't think pandering to people with short attentions spans or dumbing down the quality of my writing is the way to go at all. Anyway, I hate - and see too much of - endless paragraphs of a few sentences, without much variation, and it's clear that some of them in terms of subject really should be together, but they've been artificially chopped up to please the god of short paragraphs.
Advanced Wordsmith
Quote by MadMartigan
You have that backwards. You never want to just go on describing things through dialogue. That gets boring and tedious.
As someone else mentioned, varied dialogue length is key as well as varied sentence length. Short snappy paragraphs are great for parallel structure and stating something powerful and meaningful, succinctly. Longer ones are great for showing.
Um...I think that was me who was talking about varying paragraph, sentence, and word length and type. Of course, one doesn't want to use dialogue only (at least not usually - I've seen writing that is almost nothing but dialogue, and it can be done to good effect if handled well and done right). My point was that dialogue - which usually involves a short paragraph - is a great excuse to vary from longer paragraphs.
Noticed on your profile that you're a baseball fan. Just about ten weeks until pitchers and catchers report to spring training!
Advanced Wordsmith
Quote by JasonM
The very basic rules I learned in years of writing for publication in other venues as well as classes are such
1) Dialogue splits between characters - each character during dialogue should have their own paragraph
2) Change in minor action - Shifts in what is being told should have their own paragraph
These two are the basics, and stories I've had published in anthologies and collections follow this
Your #1 is another reason why showing through dialogue is usually better than telling with prose - it acts to add short paragraphs.
Advanced Wordsmith
Thanks Tashtego. My dictionary has almost the identical usage note - the idea that alright this is a recently developed corruption of 'all right.' I think the key is the notation (also in my dictionary) that 'all right' is used in more formal, edited writing. I suppose alright is all right in an email to mom. But when someone is writing for publication, as at lushstories and any other place, they should regard what they're writing as edited writing (whether they actually use an editor or not) and stick with proper usages.
Advanced Wordsmith
Seeker4 - Do you use a beta reader? Often times another set of eyes doing what a beta reader does (evaluating and commenting on content, pacing, characterizations, plot, continuity, believability, etc.) can help redirect a story you might otherwise decide to give up on as unsalvageable. I've never had a story I was deeply into that I gave up on, but I've done it once with a story I had just started into and realized just didn't have anywhere to go. There was so little of it that a beta reader wouldn't have had anything to work with.
Advanced Wordsmith
I think all this is fine, but skimming through the thread I don't see anyone addressing the importance of varying paragraph length. Very long paragraphs, particularly on a computer monitor, can be absolutely eye-glazing. Short paragraphs can give a story a very disjointed and disorganized appearance and tone. So I intentionally try to keep paragraphs both long (without getting into too long text blocks) and short (sometimes a couple or three sentences, excepting dialogue paragraphs) and mix them up. It creates a result that is both visually and mentally more interesting for the reader. I think intentionally working to vary paragraph length is just as important as putting effort into varying sentence length and type (using a combination of short and declarative sentences; compound sentences; complex sentences; and, when effective, sentence fragments). And as important as varying word length.
Advanced Wordsmith
DanielleX's post about lie/lay prompted me to address one of my (many) writing pet peeves.
There is no such word as 'alright.' There is a phrase 'all right.'
I think the word came into use because the words 'already' and 'altogether' are real words, and 'alright' sort of seems like it might be the same sort of adverb.
And you can use 'already,' but also 'all ready,' and 'altogether,' but also 'all together.' That seems the same as the difference between 'alright' and 'all right.' But it's not.
That's because the meaning of the word 'already' is different from the meaning of the phrase 'all ready.' ("I already jerked off." "I am all ready to jerk-off." "Are we all ready to jerk off?")
Similarly, the meaning of the word 'altogether' is different from the meaning of the phrase 'all together.' ("I am altogether exhausted from jerking off." "Altogether, the selection of women at the bar tonight makes me want to just go home and jerk-off." "Are we all together on the importance of jerking off as a sure-fire STD transmission preventer?"
But there is no such distinction in meaning between 'alright' and 'all right.' They both mean the same thing and are used in the same contexts. It's just that the phrase is the correct usage and the word an incorrect usage.
In a way (but only in a way) 'alright' is similar to 'ain't': an incorrect usage. But 'ain't' has real (although not too many) legitimate uses.
'Ain't' can be used in dialogue when characters are speaking informally. Most readers, I think, tend to hear dialogue in their head spoken by the character. So if a character says, "I'm one hell of a good fuck, ain't I?" the meaning is clear, and the usage can sound natural for that character. 'Ain't' replaces 'am I not.' The construction "I'm one hell of a good fuck, am I not?" is more stilted sounding. It's not that a character would never use the latter, but only a certain type of character and in a certain type of situation. The former choice sounds like a more normal usage. But the point is: when a reader reads a line of dialogue and hears in their head, "I'm one hell of a good fuck, ain't I?" they're hearing something very different from, "I'm one hell of a good fuck, am I not." The words are just different and sound different.
But that's not the case with 'all right' and 'alright.' If a character says, "Everything is all right." the reader hears those sounds in his or her head whether the sentence has the correct usage, "Everything is all right." or the incorrect usage, "Everything is alright."
When an author submits work for publication here or anywhere else he or she should strive for correct usages (and punctuation and grammar) all the time. Nonetheless, I run into 'alright' frequently, and I would be entirely all right with never seeing it again.
There is no such word as 'alright.' There is a phrase 'all right.'
I think the word came into use because the words 'already' and 'altogether' are real words, and 'alright' sort of seems like it might be the same sort of adverb.
And you can use 'already,' but also 'all ready,' and 'altogether,' but also 'all together.' That seems the same as the difference between 'alright' and 'all right.' But it's not.
That's because the meaning of the word 'already' is different from the meaning of the phrase 'all ready.' ("I already jerked off." "I am all ready to jerk-off." "Are we all ready to jerk off?")
Similarly, the meaning of the word 'altogether' is different from the meaning of the phrase 'all together.' ("I am altogether exhausted from jerking off." "Altogether, the selection of women at the bar tonight makes me want to just go home and jerk-off." "Are we all together on the importance of jerking off as a sure-fire STD transmission preventer?"
But there is no such distinction in meaning between 'alright' and 'all right.' They both mean the same thing and are used in the same contexts. It's just that the phrase is the correct usage and the word an incorrect usage.
In a way (but only in a way) 'alright' is similar to 'ain't': an incorrect usage. But 'ain't' has real (although not too many) legitimate uses.
'Ain't' can be used in dialogue when characters are speaking informally. Most readers, I think, tend to hear dialogue in their head spoken by the character. So if a character says, "I'm one hell of a good fuck, ain't I?" the meaning is clear, and the usage can sound natural for that character. 'Ain't' replaces 'am I not.' The construction "I'm one hell of a good fuck, am I not?" is more stilted sounding. It's not that a character would never use the latter, but only a certain type of character and in a certain type of situation. The former choice sounds like a more normal usage. But the point is: when a reader reads a line of dialogue and hears in their head, "I'm one hell of a good fuck, ain't I?" they're hearing something very different from, "I'm one hell of a good fuck, am I not." The words are just different and sound different.
But that's not the case with 'all right' and 'alright.' If a character says, "Everything is all right." the reader hears those sounds in his or her head whether the sentence has the correct usage, "Everything is all right." or the incorrect usage, "Everything is alright."
When an author submits work for publication here or anywhere else he or she should strive for correct usages (and punctuation and grammar) all the time. Nonetheless, I run into 'alright' frequently, and I would be entirely all right with never seeing it again.
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