Hi everyone,
I was wondering if there is a guideline around the use of foreign language in stories? I'm not asking about writing in another language, but embedding few phrases to complement the story. The purpose is to create a sort of mystery around a character, allowing her to say things that nobody else understand.
At the same time, I'm still undecided if I should include the translation in the text. On one hand it allows the reader to understand, but it also creates that same mystery for the reader, not just for the other characters. How do you handle those kind of situations?
Thanks in advance.
WiHa
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Adding foreign language in a story
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Quote by wiha
I was wondering if there is a guideline around the use of foreign language in stories? I'm not asking about writing in another language, but embedding few phrases to complement the story. The purpose is to create a sort of mystery around a character, allowing her to say things that nobody else understand.
At the same time, I'm still undecided if I should include the translation in the text. On one hand it allows the reader to understand, but it also creates that same mystery for the reader, not just for the other characters. How do you handle those kind of situations?
I don’t think you have to include a translation. However, if there are certain actions, behaviors, and situations you want your reader to understand about the non-English speaker, then describing those specific instances in English would go a long way towards suggesting what’s being spoken.
If you just want to write a complete erotic story in a non-English language, another site that I won’t mention here will allow you to do that.
At any rate, Google Translate and other modern translation sites are a thing now, so I wouldn’t worry too much. Just do what you think is best.
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Quote by Caramel_Infidel
I don’t think you have to include a translation. However, if there are certain actions, behaviors, and situations you want your reader to understand about the non-English speaker, then describing those specific instances in English would go a long way towards suggesting what’s being spoken.
If you just want to write a complete erotic story in a non-English language, another site that I won’t mention here will allow you to do that.
At any rate, Google Translate and other modern translation sites are a thing now, so I wouldn’t worry too much. Just do what you think is best.
Thank you Caramel_Infidel for your suggestions, this helps.
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Quote by wiha
Thank you Caramel_Infidel for your suggestions, this helps.
You’re welcome.
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Her Royal Spriteness
if it's a word or two, it's ok, but any more than that, we prefer you to put into English for the readers. 
You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
Word Hacker
Quote by sprite
if it's a word or two, it's ok, but any more than that, we prefer you to put into English for the readers.
No problem, it's a small phrase in Japanese, few words. The character speaks English and the specific phrase I have in mind is the only one that will not be explained. The few other instances where there will be few other Japanese words would be put in context by the character, for the reader's understanding.
Let me know if you would prefer I rework that bit. Thanks Sprite.
Active Ink Slinger
I've done a couple of stories like this. One was a story I had to interject a few Spanish words because the main female character was from Mexico. Another was when my main male character went to the Orient and met a local girl. As long as it's only a word or two there shouldn't be much of a problem. You can put in parentheses ( ) the English translation if you want, but you don't really have to unless the words are critical to the storyline.
Best down-under
I like it to be honest, it adds to the feeling of the story and characterization. I will happily use google if I don't know the word, indeed I love writers like Tam and Wannabewordsworth when they introduce me to new words. And I do like it when French-Canadians like Chris put some French into their stories.
Mind you some have suggested that even my English is well, lets just say a bit foreign. Besotted, bush (as in forest wilderness,) doona for instance; rooting and pashing too. Sometimes I am not even aware how regional some of my expressions are lol. And I really appreciate that Lush doesn't like other sites enforce a consistency in spelling, I always use humour and arse and never humor and ass.
I used a couple of words of New Zealand Maori in Starting Over, which which seemed to work for readers; that or else Laura was the only reader who got it and everyone else was too polite to say. Sometimes there are even trans-Atlantic differences, some Europeans didn't really know the word zucchini which featured in my Zucchini and the art of Environmental Maintenance, being used to saying courgette for that vegetable.
Mind you some have suggested that even my English is well, lets just say a bit foreign. Besotted, bush (as in forest wilderness,) doona for instance; rooting and pashing too. Sometimes I am not even aware how regional some of my expressions are lol. And I really appreciate that Lush doesn't like other sites enforce a consistency in spelling, I always use humour and arse and never humor and ass.
I used a couple of words of New Zealand Maori in Starting Over, which which seemed to work for readers; that or else Laura was the only reader who got it and everyone else was too polite to say. Sometimes there are even trans-Atlantic differences, some Europeans didn't really know the word zucchini which featured in my Zucchini and the art of Environmental Maintenance, being used to saying courgette for that vegetable.
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Quote by CuriousAnnie
I like it to be honest, it adds to the feeling of the story and characterization. I will happily use google if I don't know the word, indeed I love writers like Tam and Wannabewordsworth when they introduce me to new words. And I do like it when French-Canadians like Chris put some French into their stories.
Mind you some have suggested that even my English is well, lets just say a bit foreign. Besotted, bush (as in forest wilderness,) doona for instance; rooting and pashing too. Sometimes I am not even aware how regional some of my expressions are lol. And I really appreciate that Lush doesn't like other sites enforce a consistency in spelling, I always use humour and arse and never humor and ass.
I used a couple of words of New Zealand Maori in Starting Over, which which seemed to work for readers; that or else Laura was the only reader who got it and everyone else was too polite to say. Sometimes there are even trans-Atlantic differences, some Europeans didn't really know the word zucchini which featured in my Zucchini and the art of Environmental Maintenance, being used to saying courgette for that vegetable.
Agree entirely. Some people don't like non-English words (or even obscure accents or dialects) in stories, and complain about it - but I think it can add immensely to character, setting and atmosphere. The world is full of linguistic and cultural variety, and often it is part of the job of a writer to reflect that. It doesn't bother me if I don't understand the exact meaning of the non-English/non-standard text. If it's done well, the author's intention (which may simply be to create an aural "atmosphere") will come across. If the writer hasn't translated everything word-for-word, it may be that the exact meaning is of secondary importance. And if I am really curious, I can look it up - the same way I look up bits of English vocabulary which I have not come across before.
Some recent reads of mine, which provide cases in point: Henke's Singing of the Cicadas, where the use of French contributes massively to the Provencal atmophere. And Piquet's Kittyflower, set in Greece.
This story of mine includes Latin, French & German, and I don't think it matters if you don't understand those languages:
Metamorphoses
See what you think...
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I find translating American English into The Queens English difficult enough. Only joking my lovely American friends, I love you all really. Be nice to each other
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Thanks all for your opinions on the subject. I'll keep it, for the very few times I'll use it. I like to add a light touch of local authenticity, I've researched the cultures my characters are coming from, to find some expressions I can use in special occasions.
Her Royal Spriteness
Quote by CuriousAnnie
I like it to be honest, it adds to the feeling of the story and characterization. I will happily use google if I don't know the word, indeed I love writers like Tam and Wannabewordsworth when they introduce me to new words. And I do like it when French-Canadians like Chris put some French into their stories.
Mind you some have suggested that even my English is well, lets just say a bit foreign. Besotted, bush (as in forest wilderness,) doona for instance; rooting and pashing too. Sometimes I am not even aware how regional some of my expressions are lol. And I really appreciate that Lush doesn't like other sites enforce a consistency in spelling, I always use humour and arse and never humor and ass.
I used a couple of words of New Zealand Maori in Starting Over, which which seemed to work for readers; that or else Laura was the only reader who got it and everyone else was too polite to say. Sometimes there are even trans-Atlantic differences, some Europeans didn't really know the word zucchini which featured in my Zucchini and the art of Environmental Maintenance, being used to saying courgette for that vegetable.
slang, vernacular, and local colo(u)r are one thing. personally, i enjoy when (let's use you, for instance) places us smack in the middle of the story with a little bit of authenticated lingo. thing is, i can get through the story easily enough not being familiar with a word here or there. i pepper my Blondie stories with a bit of local color as well.
lo que intentamos evitar son historias en las que realmente necesitas traducir para saber lo que se dice...
what we do try to avoid is stories where you really do need to translate to know what is being said. what you have to remembers is the mods may not speak the language used, so in order to verify a story, we have to go the extra mile to translate any and all use of a language foreign to us.
You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
Other than maybe a common phrase or motto, I can't see myself using a foreign language in my writing. Not good enough at any. Even my French, which I took from Grade 6 to Grade 13 (Ontario had 5 years of high school back then) and classical Latin, which I studied at the undergrad level, are pretty rusty. My story The French Guest has a main character who is French and I think I only used one or two words of the language.
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Quote by seeker4
Other than maybe a common phrase or motto, I can't see myself using a foreign language in my writing. Not good enough at any. Even my French, which I took from Grade 6 to Grade 13 (Ontario had 5 years of high school back then) and classical Latin, which I studied at the undergrad level, are pretty rusty. My story The French Guest has a main character who is French and I think I only used one or two words of the language.
Yeah, know the feeling. I'm learning Japanese for my job and I decided to add a little bit for a Japanese character... Did I say I love Japan culture? Anyway, I'm getting my phrases checked by my teacher to make sure I don't screw up.
Also the fact I'm writing in my second language, French being my mother tongue. PM me if you need to check on something in French, will be my pleasure to help.
Resident Otaku
Quote by wiha
Yeah, know the feeling. I'm learning Japanese for my job and I decided to add a little bit for a Japanese character... Did I say I love Japan culture? Anyway, I'm getting my phrases checked by my teacher to make sure I don't screw up.
Also the fact I'm writing in my second language, French being my mother tongue. PM me if you need to check on something in French, will be my pleasure to help.
That's awesome! I'll definitely check it out when you post it.
Quote by wiha
I'm learning Japanese for my job and I decided to add a little bit for a Japanese character... Did I say I love Japan culture?
Good on you. My wife is Chinese but my attempts to learn the language back in the nineties didn't go very far. Hi, bye, thank you type of stuff is about all I can manage in Mandarin and I haven't really learned any Shanghainese (which is actually her native). I learned to count in Shanghainese playing cribbage with her but not sure I can even remember that any more.
Testing The Waters.
I've used other languages here and there. It depends entirely upon whether you expect the reader to know what they're saying, whether its relevant to the story at that moment, and many other things.
If the whole conversation is going to be in another language, set up the transition, and then just type everything in English. Maybe with a spice word or two thrown in there where the sentence structure gives the reader a reasonable understanding of what the word means, if not the exact definition. Transition back out if they go back to English. The online translators do fairly well going from another language to English, so someone can copy/paste and get full context if they wish.
Online translators don't do so well going the other way. They're too literal, and there's a better than average chance that fluent speakers are going to cringe at the technically correct, but completely abnormal word/phrase. Ask a native speaker if it's at all possible. Toss the question out on Twitter/here or something. You never know, you might get lucky.
You can drop a word or phrase in there and have the POV character define it in narrative or dialogue as well, where appropriate.
As often as not, I use tone, body language, etc. and let the non-speaker get the gist of what's going on without actually understanding much of what was said. You don't need to know exactly what someone is saying when they're shouting at/seducing you in another language. You get the drift.
In the case where it's a reveal later on, you treat it like any other reveal. Use the non-English phrase where you want it, and then pay it off at the appropriate moment. The story mods here are reading the full story, unlike most sites that skim due to not having enough people to do it. They're going to understand its a literary device when they get to the reveal, and not ding you for using it that way.
If the whole conversation is going to be in another language, set up the transition, and then just type everything in English. Maybe with a spice word or two thrown in there where the sentence structure gives the reader a reasonable understanding of what the word means, if not the exact definition. Transition back out if they go back to English. The online translators do fairly well going from another language to English, so someone can copy/paste and get full context if they wish.
Online translators don't do so well going the other way. They're too literal, and there's a better than average chance that fluent speakers are going to cringe at the technically correct, but completely abnormal word/phrase. Ask a native speaker if it's at all possible. Toss the question out on Twitter/here or something. You never know, you might get lucky.
You can drop a word or phrase in there and have the POV character define it in narrative or dialogue as well, where appropriate.
As often as not, I use tone, body language, etc. and let the non-speaker get the gist of what's going on without actually understanding much of what was said. You don't need to know exactly what someone is saying when they're shouting at/seducing you in another language. You get the drift.
In the case where it's a reveal later on, you treat it like any other reveal. Use the non-English phrase where you want it, and then pay it off at the appropriate moment. The story mods here are reading the full story, unlike most sites that skim due to not having enough people to do it. They're going to understand its a literary device when they get to the reveal, and not ding you for using it that way.
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Writius Eroticus
Yep. What they all said. I've used French words in my "Jus de Minou" piece and didn't supply a translation, hoping that the context would provide it.
I read one the other day where the Spanish phrase was used, immediately followed by its translation and that worked well. Also, as RejectReality says, setting it up first for a bit of mystery and then revealing what's said in the subsequent narrative is a clever way of doing it.
In the above story, if I'd thought harder, I could have done this:
Thus the context supplies the translation without having to do it word for word. Loads of fun can be had, so let your imagination freewheel!
I read one the other day where the Spanish phrase was used, immediately followed by its translation and that worked well. Also, as RejectReality says, setting it up first for a bit of mystery and then revealing what's said in the subsequent narrative is a clever way of doing it.
In the above story, if I'd thought harder, I could have done this:
"Je t'en supplie!"
He held the buzzing device close, watching her body quiver.
"Call that begging?" Yanking the device away, he watched her twist with need. "BEG!"
Thus the context supplies the translation without having to do it word for word. Loads of fun can be had, so let your imagination freewheel!
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@utterchaos, I'm putting the final touches to my revised submission, I'll most likely resend for review this week.
@seeker4, Yes, Chinese and Japanese are two very different languages than what we use in the west. Although, I find Japanese relatively easy to speak, it's writing I'm utterly clueless.
@RejectReality, that's true, I didn't thought of adding the meaning later on. I will keep that in mind, I'm sure I can find a crunchy way to have it revealed to the main character.
@WannabeWordsmith, I love the title of your story, it made me laugh, I'll have to read it.
@seeker4, Yes, Chinese and Japanese are two very different languages than what we use in the west. Although, I find Japanese relatively easy to speak, it's writing I'm utterly clueless.
@RejectReality, that's true, I didn't thought of adding the meaning later on. I will keep that in mind, I'm sure I can find a crunchy way to have it revealed to the main character.
@WannabeWordsmith, I love the title of your story, it made me laugh, I'll have to read it.
I have done this and not provided a translation, only later to describe what the person said in prose.
Why? To try and add authenticity to the dialogue or convey emotion in moments they are so overwhelmed, they revert to their mother tongue.
Or to tease, so the other person may not understand what they said on purpose. It's a handy device. Mostly, it's the vernacular I have heard or use myself and I don't rely on Google Translate too much.
Why? To try and add authenticity to the dialogue or convey emotion in moments they are so overwhelmed, they revert to their mother tongue.
Or to tease, so the other person may not understand what they said on purpose. It's a handy device. Mostly, it's the vernacular I have heard or use myself and I don't rely on Google Translate too much.
Even if it's a throwaway line, I would want to either consult a native speaker if it's not a language I'm proficient in, or at least something more reliable than google translate - and by proficient I mean pretty damn fluent because if you write something grammatically incorrect or just wrong, it's jarring to the few readers who might understand said language and pull them out of the moment.
Often, a choice word or phrase is better than an entire dialogue in a foreign language. There are exceptions, of course.
It's easy to start code-switching with a language you know without thinking about it in daily conversation, but pretend the readers have no fucking clue what is written. If the writing system is different, it might be best to italicize it in Roman letters.
Sometimes non-Roman letters or symbols can add a flair, but you have to assume it looks like gibberish to 95% of readers. As copy-pasting isn't possible on stories here, and most readers won't trace the symbols into google translate, artistic liberties might be needed to help readers understand what's going on.
That's just my very opinionated opinion. Take it with a grain of salt (or two, or three).
Often, a choice word or phrase is better than an entire dialogue in a foreign language. There are exceptions, of course.
It's easy to start code-switching with a language you know without thinking about it in daily conversation, but pretend the readers have no fucking clue what is written. If the writing system is different, it might be best to italicize it in Roman letters.
Sometimes non-Roman letters or symbols can add a flair, but you have to assume it looks like gibberish to 95% of readers. As copy-pasting isn't possible on stories here, and most readers won't trace the symbols into google translate, artistic liberties might be needed to help readers understand what's going on.
That's just my very opinionated opinion. Take it with a grain of salt (or two, or three).
Top Shot
My natural language is Québécois French. I've sprinkled bits of it in a couple of stories and have never italicized the words used. I've also never translated directly for my readers. And once in a while, there just isn't a word in English that matches what needs to be written--so Québécois French it is.
A good example is Blood Lust
Other languages, in descending order of fluency, that I speak/read/write include Spanish, Portuguese, Farsi, Russian and Arabic. I don't think I'd use those in a story, though, I don't think there'd ever be a need.
A good example is Blood Lust
Other languages, in descending order of fluency, that I speak/read/write include Spanish, Portuguese, Farsi, Russian and Arabic. I don't think I'd use those in a story, though, I don't think there'd ever be a need.
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IMO-type suggestions: Use foreign words, accents or dialects sparingly, carefully, and, if possible, only in dialogue.
On the other hand, if you have a high non-classroom comfort level in a language or dialect and the skill of a Frank McCourt, go for it if you think it will make your story a better read. According to that font of all knowledge, Amazon Echo, there are over one million 'English' words. Odds are one of them will convey whatever needs conveying to your readers. .
As always, the one unbreakable rule for crafting commercial viable fiction is: DON'T BORE YOUR READERS. So a writer's challenge is to make sure any use of foreign languages or dialects enhances, not impedes, the reading experience.
May good luck and many bestsellers be with all of you.
IMO-type suggestions: Use foreign words, accents or dialects sparingly, carefully, and, if possible, only in dialogue.
On the other hand, if you have a high non-classroom comfort level in a language or dialect and the skill of a Frank McCourt, go for it if you think it will make your story a better read. According to that font of all knowledge, Amazon Echo, there are over one million 'English' words. Odds are one of them will convey whatever needs conveying to your readers. .
As always, the one unbreakable rule for crafting commercial viable fiction is: DON'T BORE YOUR READERS. So a writer's challenge is to make sure any use of foreign languages or dialects enhances, not impedes, the reading experience.
May good luck and many bestsellers be with all of you.
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Quote by wiha
No problem, it's a small phrase in Japanese, few words. The character speaks English and the specific phrase I have in mind is the only one that will not be explained. The few other instances where there will be few other Japanese words would be put in context by the character, for the reader's understanding.
Let me know if you would prefer I rework that bit. Thanks Sprite.
Coming along a little late to this...
In a series I wrote I introduced a character who was Japanese and uses the odd word here and there.
As she uses them, they are often explained - she works with one of the couple and they will explain to the one she doesn't work with.
One time she calls the guy she works with a tawagoto... He then explains that he's just been called a shithead. In later chapters, both the woman call him a tawagato at times.
It's not explained a 2nd time, but I do add a list of all the words and phrases that she uses at the end of the chapters.
On another I did, I included a bunch of Victorian vernacular. Although I think most got them from context, I again added a list of them at the end.
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I like foreign language and local idioms in a story. Obviously you can take it too far. Cormac McCarthy LOVES to deliver entire conversations in Spanish, and I like the air of mystery it gives the story (although I suppose if I spoke Spanish it wouldn't be mysterious). And it's easy enough to provide context clues for what is being said. I think it need to be done for a reason; that foreign word is like punctuation, it draws attention, so USE that attention by focusing the reader on something important. But I think it's a nice effect.
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