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The scoring system is going to be changed

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Quote by Seeker4

Because he is right. Moving from using average score to get a short list to a point total based on favorites and likes is going to tend to favour popular authors regardless of quality. Using average levelled that out a bit since an author with 20 votes and an author with 60 could still have the same average.

i think, and i don't know, since it's not been formally discussed (don't worry, it will be) that currently, if you get 5 likes or more, you have a just as much a shot at being short listed as if you had 20+. and please don't quote me on that - i'm in enough trouble in the backroom right now as it is. smile

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

I've said it before, but no matter what scoring method is used, you'll always have a core of people who believe it's rigged against them. This choice is transparent, not mathematically complicated, and prevents downward manipulation. Such a fundamental change is never going to be ideal when work that has existed for years under different criteria is involved, but the solution offered for dealing with existing work is reasonable IMO.

As to contests, I don't believe the shortlisting was ever based entirely upon score. The one time I placed was ( as best I can determine from conversation at the time ) because very few people were on theme in a sponsored contest. My score and vote total were nothing to write home about from what I remember at the time, and I believe that was the reason for the complaints that started the conversation I'm talking about. If it was only score that determined the shortlist, I wouldn't have made it.

I've seen other stories place where the score wasn't in that upper echelon, but the story was most certainly deserving. I've never seen a winning story that didn't deserve to be there. My anecdotal observations indicate to me that solid stories had an opportunity to be considered regardless of the raw number of the score. Some probably slipped through the cracks due to large numbers of entries, but there was always opportunity for a well written story.

The new scoring method in fact removes the reason I stopped participating in contests. The more nuanced voting in contests hurt the long-term exposure of stories that didn't place, and there were too many top tier authors ( top tier in quality/talent, not followers ) participating regularly to leave any openings for anyone else. Thus participation was a net negative for me. The same story published outside the contest would score better, and thus gain exposure over the long term that outweighed the short term bump from contest highlighting. Absent the liked-it-but-didn't-love-it 4s that contest voting typically produced, there's no downward pressure on long term exposure from the new scoring method.

( Absent the by-category toplists, long term exposure potential has been seriously curtailed, but that's a different discussion )

The short version is that I think people are reading too much into the documented shortlisting process and unnecessarily worried that author followings will push everyone else out.

Here is the explanation of the judging process as it worked previously.

https://www.lushstories.com/forum/welcome-to-lushstoriescom-site-guidelines-help/the-competition-judging-process

Quoting Nicola --

"Typically the top 20 - 30 stories (depending on the # entries and story lengths) based on highest average score, are then read by myself or someone deputizing for me if I do not have the time.

- That list is whittled down to a Top 10 which are then sent to a panel of judges."

Will "highest number of Likes and Favorites" now substitute for "highest average score" in choosing the "top 20-30 stories" from which the comp winners will be chosen?

That is my concern.

I think there's been a bit of confusion in the wording. For Nicola's post above, the average score she's talking about wasn't just the rating (e.g.4.95) but a combo of the number of votes received and the rating. That being said, I think it was rare that all stories weren't read anyway, in case any gems from unknown authors came much lower down. It would only have been if the full list was unmanageably long that all stories weren't read, and the score used to long-list in the first instance.

Currently, the person shortlisting reads all the stories, and that's the intention going forward. I completely understand that there are always going to be people who feel the system is rigged, and trust me, I've had a few PMs from people saying just that after a few competitions. I'm not ever going to change everyone's mind, and that's fine. None of those people were ever able to tell me what their top ten would have been, by the way, because I fully suspect they hadn't bothered to read them all. But anyway, Lush competitions are not, and never have been, a popularity contest based on the number of friends you have. They are as fair as we are able to make them.

TL;DR Lush comps are judged on writing quality and not scores

Quote by Jen

I think there's been a bit of confusion in the wording. For Nicola's post above, the average score she's talking about wasn't just the rating (e.g.4.95) but a combo of the number of votes received and the rating. That being said, I think it was rare that all stories weren't read anyway, in case any gems from unknown authors came much lower down. It would only have been if the full list was unmanageably long that all stories weren't read, and the score used to long-list in the first instance.

Thanks, Jen. Just what I was hoping to hear. If this is not enough for Lunafalls and others, then nothing will be. And, yes, I've heard the "it's rigged" argument many times over the years. On Lush, I have only cracked the top 10 maybe 3 or 4 times over my first 9 years here (under the old profile so I can't really verify now), and that's entering plenty of comps. The other stories around me were always top drawer and I have never felt that I was being sidelined because I wasn't "popular" or part of the "in crowd."

A poem for your enjoyment. Little something that came to me a couple days ago

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/the-mistake-4

Quote by RejectReality
Absent the by-category toplists, long term exposure potential has been seriously curtailed, but that's a different discussion

This is being worked on at present. It won't be live until we can convert the scores though. We've also added a 'classic' section to the front page, that rotates older, award winning stories on a weekly basis so some forgotten gems get some love.

one of the things i've learned here over the past 12 or so years. no matter what you do to make things fair. no matter how transparent you make things. no matter how many times you explain the rules there will be people who bitch about things being rigged. bluntly put, keep it to yourselves. we're tired of hearing about it. you don't like how comps are run, go join them on other sites where they actually are popularity contests. i am sure that, no matter what, when we announce the winners of this one people will bitch about it too. and think about it - how would you feel if you put a lot of hard work into writing an amazing story and someone came along and said 'you only won cause it's rigged'. we've actually had writers stop writing for comps because of that. so any of you who've done that? thanks for ruining someone's experience. (Jen is, obviosuly, the good cop while i'm the 'i don't give a fuck' cop lol)

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Quote by kistinspencil

I do like the idea that someone who gave me a 1 for whatever reason will soon be liking the story the same as if they had given it a 5. 😈

I'd say it would make more sense to count 5s as 1, 4s as 0.8, 3s as 0.6, etc. (or average score * number of scores), and then round the number (up?) to the nearest integer.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

Quote by noll

I'd say it would make more sense to count 5s as 1, 4s as 0.8, 3s as 0.6, etc. (or average score * number of scores), and then round the number (up?) to the nearest integer.

Noll, my guess is you have about 15 minutes to hide before you are attacked by an angry horde of authors and programmers. 😈

Quote by KimmiBeGood

Noll, my guess is you have about 15 minutes to hide before you are attacked by an angry horde of authors and programmers. 😈

Hiding won't help with the programmers. They'll target his computer, not him. Watch for incoming phishing attacks, noll.🤣

A poem for your enjoyment. Little something that came to me a couple days ago

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/erotic-poems/the-mistake-4

Quote by noll

I'd say it would make more sense to count 5s as 1, 4s as 0.8, 3s as 0.6, etc. (or average score * number of scores), and then round the number (up?) to the nearest integer.

I think, to be fair it should be

1 = -1 like (they did, for whatever reason, make a judgement that should be respected)
2 = o like (since nobody knows what the heck a 2 means)
3 = .5 like
4 = .75 like
5 = 1 like

Add it all up and there you go. This should be quite easy to run against existing story scores, knowing how clever IT folks are.

We actually did debate weighting the scores to be transferred, however decided that because 1s and 2s were most often given to troll rather than be accurate opinions, and that 5s were given as default in the cast majority of cases, a straight one for one should just apply.

Quote by sprite

one of the things i've learned here over the past 12 or so years. no matter what you do to make things fair. no matter how transparent you make things. no matter how many times you explain the rules there will be people who bitch about things being rigged. bluntly put, keep it to yourselves. we're tired of hearing about it. you don't like how comps are run, go join them on other sites where they actually are popularity contests. i am sure that, no matter what, when we announce the winners of this one people will bitch about it too. and think about it - how would you feel if you put a lot of hard work into writing an amazing story and someone came along and said 'you only won cause it's rigged'. we've actually had writers stop writing for comps because of that. so any of you who've done that? thanks for ruining someone's experience. (Jen is, obviosuly, the good cop while i'm the 'i don't give a fuck' cop lol)

Very well put.

Once upon a time Lush held a competition where the winning story was the one that received the most votes from members. And everyone lived happily ever after. 😊

(Notorious: April 2019)

This author would definitely NOT be happy if comps become a "most votes win" thing. I'd never enter. Talk about drama. It would become a nightmare of vote begging, favor swapping, and friend collecting like our U.S. political system today, imo.

That's essentially what the Notorious comp was. I think Nicola got so fed up with people moaning, she did one just to show what would happen. It was a nightmare. People were down-voting others left, right and centre, people were PMing their friends, begging for votes. Others were offering pictures of various body parts in exchange for 5s. And that was just in public. God know what was being offered privately, lol.

As a one off it was kind of funny. As a standard, it's not what any serious author wants to see.

Quote by Jen

That's essentially what the Notorious comp was. I think Nicola got so fed up with people moaning, she did one just to show what would happen. It was a nightmare. People were down-voting others left, right and centre, people were PMing their friends, begging for votes. Others were offering pictures of various body parts in exchange for 5s. And that was just in public. God know what was being offered privately, lol.

As a one off it was kind of funny. As a standard, it's not what any serious author wants to see.

That's true, Jen. But brownsugar won that comp with a stunning story, lots of views and 121 comments were seriously well deserved. Lol, my story should have done better but I didn't think to offer more body parts in private.

Most votes win would be awful and I've literally lost friends for saying that. Judging and shortlisting are harder than writing, occasionally a story slips out of the shortlist net, but this place is fair more so than other sites ❤️

Do check out my latest story:

Unleashed competition: Bull Shite, Bull Dykes, Bull Fights: That’s Your Everyday D/s Love Story. | Lush Stories

And my other stories, including 5 EPs, 22 RR's, and 15 competition top 10's including my pride competition winner: On Oxford Street, This Gay Girl Found Pride While Playing With Balls

Quote by Jen

As a one off it was kind of funny. As a standard, it's not what any serious author wants to see.

I didn't know the competitions were only for 'serious authors'. 🤔

Quote by CallmeJayne
I didn't know the competitions were only for 'serious authors'. 🤔

Nah! If they'll let me enter, they'll let anyone enter!

Am I a good witch, or a bad witch? History will decide

surprised on 2nd thought, I like the idea of favor swapping. Stormdog... I'll throw you a vote if you show me the front side of that sexy ass of yours. biggrin (too bad for me he's one of best writers on this site and doesn't need my vote (sad face))

Quote by KimmiBeGood

surprised on 2nd thought, I like the idea of favor swapping. Stormdog... I'll throw you a vote if you show me the front side of that sexy ass of yours. biggrin (too bad for me he's one of best writers on this site and doesn't need my vote (sad face))

His price might be a quid pro quo, Kimmi. Full frontal for you too 👅

Do check out my latest story:

Unleashed competition: Bull Shite, Bull Dykes, Bull Fights: That’s Your Everyday D/s Love Story. | Lush Stories

And my other stories, including 5 EPs, 22 RR's, and 15 competition top 10's including my pride competition winner: On Oxford Street, This Gay Girl Found Pride While Playing With Balls

Quote by CuriousAnnie

His price might be a quid pro quo, Kimmi. Full frontal for you too 👅

horror

Quote by Seeker4

Votes for tits! I offer votes for tits! Competitive rates, bonuses for "lower down" or extra nice (as determined by me) rack.

😎

Hmmm...

We have seriously derailed this thread. Perhaps someone should start a new one entitled "Votes for Sexual Favors" up in the "Ask the Authors" section.

Quote by KimmiBeGood

surprised on 2nd thought, I like the idea of favor swapping. Stormdog... I'll throw you a vote if you show me the front side of that sexy ass of yours. biggrin (too bad for me he's one of best writers on this site and doesn't need my vote (sad face))

Asses have a front side? I never knew that, but be careful what you ask for. I like Annie's suggestion, so let's start there. 😈

On the other hand, I'd hate to destroy your fantasy...

Quote by Stormdog

Asses have a front side? I never knew that, but be careful what you ask for. I like Annie's suggestion, so let's start there. 😈

On the other hand, I'd hate to destroy your fantasy...

I meant your dangly bits, Stormy! 😀 Now, gentlemen go first... 😈

This change is live, but there's a script (very slowly apparently) running in the background at the mo to translate all the legacy scores, so it might be a day or two before everything is updated.

Edit: glitch with pagination missing on story pages has been reported

Quote by RejectReality
I'm more interested in whether we're going to regain real access to our views after the change

Unrounded view numbers are now available below each story for authors