I'm a reasonable writer. I can point out nouns, verbs and the odd adjective, but beyond that I'm largely clueless on the technicalities of English grammar. I wouldn't know a subordinate clause if it poked me in the ass.
I don't know if improving my grammar situation might make me a better author (not just on this site, but in general).
So I'm curious if you think your formal training - if any - in that regard is important in terms of helping you write effective stories. Do you find yourself consciously using the grammar side of things as you write? Is it innate if you practice enough? Does it define your writing? Does knowing the rules help you bend/break them more effectively? Or does the complete freedom from the shackles of formal grammar (or deliberately ignoring it) allow your imagination to run riot?
Please indicate your level of English training in the poll above, and let me know your thoughts/experiences on this topic.
Thank you!
Please browse my digital bookshelf. In this collection, you can find 109 full stories, 10 micro-stories, and 2 poems with the following features:
* 29 Editor's Picks, 72 Recommended Reads.
* 15 competition podium places, 9 other times in the top ten.
* 21 collaborations.
* A whole heap of often filthy, tense, hot sex.
I got an A in Higher English, which I think is the Scottish equivalent of an English A-level. I'd have been 16 when I took that exam. From what I remember, it was all about what the poetry and story you'd studied symbolised etc. Don't remember there being technical questions at that level.
If I learned anything past nouns, verbs, adjectives and adverbs in school, it's long been forgotten. And I'm not sure I ever did to be honest.
Writing is mostly intuitive to me. What sounds right? What works? Where do the pauses need to go, etc. I think as long as your grammar isn't so bad that it's off-putting, the story and the feelings trump technical ability every time.
Joan Didion said "Grammar is a piano I play by ear" and I love that quote - I don't know most of the rules, but I get most of them right anyway (I still have blind spots, like when to use "lay/lie").
I think most of us here, and most of the writers I know, DON'T have a grasp of the technical minutia involved. We just instinctively know, without ever knowing why we know. We don't really need to know the why.
Not my strong suit. I go by what I can remember with grammer
I am not sure what the actual question is in regards to. I will take a leap here and assume it is in reference to conveying meaning, feeling, emotions. items that are not readily communicated through words. And, when words are used to convey those types of non-tangibles to others, it is very difficult as I suspect success is heavily dependent on the "receivers" personal experiences.
Words are just that, words. Grammar helps express those words to convey meaning.
Grammar is just a technical construct for the language (English, Italian, Thai, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean, Spanish, etc., and not to mention dialects).
I believe that when you cannot express what you want in the language you are using through that particular grammar, it becomes a hindrance. However it is a useful hindrance. That's when you become creative and take that next step, the ones that all creative and artistic people do and go outside those boundaries.
And, create something new and unexpected.
What should be irritating to anyone creative is someone who wants to keep you in that box. Editors, for example, can be a huge asset to your writings and help you express yourself the way you want. They can also be the ultimate jailer that makes sure you are confined and constrained in a box with strict boundaries.
Hello WannabeWordsmith
That is an interesting question you have posed here and I’m not sure how to answer it. I did not vote in your pole because the education system here in Canada seems to be different than in the United Kingdom. I don’t know what the difference is between your A-level and O-level, or how ours would relate to either one, as both levels include High School.
After High School, I worked for many years, then quit and went back to university and earned a Bachelor’s Degree in Computer Information Systems, AKA, computer programming. Anyone that has written computer programs will know the languages used there are very rigid with no room for creativity, nor do they bear any resemblance to English grammar. I did have a few English courses during that period of study; however, they were like those in High School, though I suppose they did serve as a refresher course. I’ll admit, I struggled with both levels of English studies.
I don’t have much to add to what the other posters have already stated. Any writing I’ve done, I’ve tried to follow what few rules I know, and the rest has been left up to whatever feels right as I’m typing and or editing. Jen summed up my thoughts very well when she said, “I think as long as your grammar isn't so bad that it's off-putting, the story and the feelings trump technical ability every time.”
The main point of your posting seems to center around whether your writing would improve if you had a better understanding of English grammar rules. I commend you for questioning your ability in this way, as it shows a desire to improve. Have you thought about enrolling in some course, perhaps online? I’m sure there are many available. It has always been my experience that any extra knowledge we can accumulate, will never come in amiss.
After reading your signature here, I notice you have written sixty stories and a poem, earning 11 Editor’s Picks, 46 Recommended Reads and 5 competition mentions. I’d like to remind you that anyone that has accumulated such a fantastic record as this, on a site with as high a standard of story acceptance as Lushstories, must be doing something right. My advice to you would be that whatever you are doing, just keep on doing it.
If you're feeling bored during this Covid-19 epidemic I’d like to suggest
you take a peek at a story I collaborated with SueBrasil, a brilliant author.
It's about a mistake in judgment a lady makes concerning a friend, based
on the hurtful words of someone that only thinks of himself. Will that
conniving person succeed in ruining a beautiful friendship, or will she see
through his lies? It's gradually creeping up towards the 30,000 mark
and we’d love any votes or hearing whatever comments you may wish
to make. It is listed in my profile under ‘FAVOURITES’ as Apologize.
www.lushstories.com/stories/first-time/apologize.aspx I just thought I would vote since I am, so far, the only person responding with a BA in English. It did take me twenty-four years to complete it.
Like any art, writing uses certain rules to create works that can be appreciated by the observer. Just as Picasso stressed the need for knowing the basics of his art in order to create something new and wonderful. Never reject learning the basics simply because it might take effort. Good things always take work and practice.
But I know there are plenty of creative souls who simply cannot comprehend rules of grammar, spelling, and syntax. That's what a good proofreader and editor are for. To help people with art in their hearts and souls demonstrate their true creativity.
I rarely contribute in the forums but thought I might add my 2cts to this. I have never had a single formal writing class yet I have written three main stream novels. It has been my experience that is it far more important to be conceptually talented than technically so. All publishers have editors that provide assistance and direction. I've learned much from them. A good editor can help one overcome many writing issues but they can't help you conceive a good story. Over the years I have been involved in writing conferences and observed many technically sound educated writers who couldn't conceive a sound story. The ability to create a good marketable story is far more important than being able to write technically correct.
One difference from elsewhere I suspect is that in Australia English is the only compulsory subject all the way through school. So in effect all those in schooling till they are eighteen effectively are A-level trained in English (though we do five or six not three subjects in our final two years.) But the focus is both interpretation of text and essay writing, so while some grammar is picked up it is definitely second to interpretation.
I don't have an English degree, but I do have an advanced degree in a related field and have worked as an ESL teacher. The details of English grammar are not necessary to be a good writer; learn enough grammar until you feel secure, if that is something you feel you need, but concentrate on reading a wide variety of short stories closely and carefully, and don't be afraid to take them apart sentence by sentence to see how they tick.
With fiction grammar always takes a back seat to the voice of the narrator. Creating a relatable voice sometimes means conforming to how people talk, which is rarely grammatical.
That said, I'm finding that I make a lot more errors when I'm writing erotica. I was working on a story tonight and looked back to see I'd typed "title little ass" and "butt checks."
I have a tendency to write the way I talk. I have done a lot of public speaking in the past and I am sure I slobber all over grammar, from time to time. For me, it's the content that is way more important. How effective are you at getting your point across, or painting that picture so that the reader feels like they are part of the story. For stories that I request be posted here at Lush, I let Word do a spelling and grammar check for me and from time to time I have someone read my story and fix any errors that I don't find or Word doesn't find. If writing stories for Lush were a lesson in technical writing I would pay more attention. For now, I just try to make sure that any potential grammatical error that I make does not detract from the story itself.
My two cents or two pence
