Free Speech ended in Violence

Told you this would eventually end in violence. The “free speech” thread was locked where I was met with the usual posters denying the right wing’s violent tendencies.

The ruling that conservatives cheered on that now allows businesses to deny service to gay people would cause businesses to counter react and of course a conservative got violent.

“A business owner was fatally shot on Friday after someone allegedly took issue with a Pride flag she had displayed at her clothing store in Lake Arrowhead, California.

Deputies responded at 5 p.m. to the shooting at the Mag Pi clothing store, where owner Laura Ann Carleton was pronounced dead at the scene, the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department said in a news release. The suspect, who was not identified, fled the scene on foot.

“Through further investigation, detectives learned the suspect made several disparaging remarks about a rainbow flag that stood outside the store before shooting Carleton,” the news release said.

The suspect was armed when confronted by deputies and was killed in "a lethal force encounter," the sheriff’s department said. An investigation is ongoing.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna100849

Sick of these awful people.

Ugh

Quote by Magical_felix6s

Sick of these awful people.

The Trumper far right activists probably just consider the shooter to be a gun owner a guy exercising his right to use the second amendment.

He is a murderer!

Quote by Chryses

This tragedy was another example of an individual killed defending her First Amendment right to free speech.

 

Man kills shopkeeper in US state of California after disparaging Pride flag

 

You said this wouldn’t happen. You laughed at the notion of conservatives getting violent after the free speech ruling where you were happy that it became legal for business owners to discriminate against gay people.

I told you conservatives would be too stupid to understand that it works both ways and that it would lead to violence.

Congrats on proving what hogs you people are.

this is not really about free speech, tho, is it. it's about the hatred and fear being fostered by the far-right against the LGBTQ+ community and their allies. they're pretty much opening the doors for people to commit violence and murder against those who belong to either group and then claiming that they can do that because, hey, free speech... so maybe it is a "free speech" issue. the freedom to incite hate and violence against anyone they don't like,

Quote by Chryses

[Edited. See above^]

Republican rhetoric, propaganda and policy leads to violence.

Hateful conservative dumbasses interpret the ruling as open season on gay people and people who support gay people.

You now have DeSantis saying he wants to shoot people at the border because he is making up a fantasy that they are working for the cartels. The dumbest of you will interpret that as a call to violence as well.

Quote by sprite

this is not really about free speech, tho, is it. it's about the hatred and fear being fostered by the far-right against the LGBTQ+ community and their allies. they're pretty much opening the doors for people to commit violence and murder against those who belong to either group and then claiming that they can do that because, hey, free speech... so maybe it is a "free speech" issue. the freedom to incite hate and violence against anyone they don't like,

You said it better than I did.

"Free speech" is just their way of wrapping their bullshit in the flag.

Quote by Chryses

It is about Free Speech. The victim, Ms. Carleton, was defending her First Amendment right to free speech by flying the flag in question.

and she was murdered for it because of the rhetoric being pushed by the far right and quite a few politicians who are supposed to be representing ALL of us, while i truth, are doing their best to target those in the gay community. they hate us. they don't even try to hide it, and they foster hate against the LGBTQ+ community. you read about it every day. anti-gay and anti-trans. lots of you even push the idea here - keep trans-women out of sports! must be nice to be able to go about your day not having to worry about being harassed, assaulted, or murdered for simply being you. not all of us have that luxury.

Quote by Chryses

The Free Speech Ms. Carleton expressed by flying that flag was not bullshit.

and she was murdered for it. is that what you think free speech should be about? Felix had it right. it's a call to violence and hate on the side of the far right against those they don't want polluting "their country".

Quote by Chryses

Free Speech, as realized in the First Amendment is not about violence.

Felix is mistaken.

the point is, that people are interpreting it as what ever they want it to be, an agenda being pushed by the far right. this is not about the ruling. this is about the political and social climate of these here United States that has been pushed more and more over the last decade or so by the far right, conservatives, and the Republican party. you can dance around that all you want, but that is what is happening.

Quote by Chryses

I reject the proposition that the First Amendment fosters hate and violence. In countries and places where the freedoms you take for granted are suppressed - Free Speech being the poster child - you will find more violence and hatred.

edited

so we should just be thankful that only a few of use are getting murdered because it's much worse in other countries? That woman had friends, a husband, fucking 9 kids. tell them that. hey, your mom died defending free speech cause hey, America is better than a lot of other fucking countries. bet they'll feel pretty good about the whole thing if they know that.

Quote by Chryses

Free Speech, as realized in the First Amendment is not about violence.

Felix is mistaken.

neither is the second amendment, but hey, that's what it's been turned into.

Quote by Chryses

You are correct to say the ruling by the SCOTUS protecting our First Amendment rights was not the cause of the murder.

You are free to express your political opinions; that is the point of the SCOTUS ruling. That does not mean your political opinions are correct.

my opinions, however, are morally and ethically correct and i stand by them and will sleep well tonight having voiced them. apparently, you are more concerned about the "rightness" of the ruling than you are about those who will suffer because of them. you are, imo, and i'm probably not alone, morally bankrupt. i honestly don't wish the kind of fear and stress that those of use in the LGBTQ+ (and pretty much every minority community) live with on a day-to-day basis - no one deserves that - but i sincerely hope that you at least think about what it must but like to stand in another person's shoes. it's called empathy and compassion, two things that seem completely foreign to you.

Quote by Chryses

Many thousands of our military have died defending the nation you have the freedom to criticize.

yep. and many of those deaths were in actions that were ethically and morally bankrupt. Vietnam, anyone? and how many of the far-right politicians were out there defending this nation? so yeah, don't give me that BS line about people dying to defend my freedom. how about all the fucking people not in the military who have died defending my freedoms? don't they count too?

Quote by Chryses

Many thousands of our military have died defending the nation you have the freedom to criticize.

the fall back line. oh, well, yeah, but what about...

[Edited: Unnecessary antagonizing]

Quote by Chryses

You are mistaken. I am not indulging in some body count, but merely bringing to your attention that the freedoms you take for granted were expensive to secure, and should not be dismissed lightly. For example, I firmly believe the freedom of speech that many misuse should not be curtailed. You seem to disagree with me about that.

I can accept that disagreement. Can you?

i am all in favor of freedom of speech as outlined in the Constitution. my issue as that the far right and GOP party does not. they their own agenda and they have hi-jacked it in order to push it as the expense of my community. btw, while i might feel like shooting some of the assholes spouting off anti-gay and anti-trans rhetoric, i don't. why? because that's not how it's supposed to work. also, it would be wrong. apparently, that's something that only conservatives do.

Quote by Chryses

You are mistaken. I am not indulging in some body count, but merely bringing to your attention that the freedoms you take for granted were expensive to secure, and should not be dismissed lightly. For example, I firmly believe the freedom of speech that many misuse should not be curtailed. You seem to disagree with me about that.

I can accept that disagreement. Can you?

no. i am not, you just don't want to admit that you're a tool for a political party that doesn't actually give a shit about me, about you, about anyone but themselves and their donors.

Quote by Chryses

I reject the proposition that the First Amendment fosters hate and violence. In countries and places where the freedoms you take for granted are suppressed - Free Speech being the poster child - you will find more violence and hatred.

edited

Protecting the right to discriminate under the guise of free speech leads to outcomes like the one highlighted in the original post of this thread.

Quote by Chryses

There is no right to discriminate to be defended. There are several natural rights included in the First Amendment. One of them is a right to free speech that has been successfully defended.

Conservatives: it’s our first amendment right to refuse service to gays!

Normal people: okay well we are going to put rainbow flags at our businesses so gay people feel comfortable shopping here. That’s our first amendment right

Conservatives: no not like that! 😡

Quote by Chryses

Hate crimes are hate crimes. You do, of course, enjoy the freedom of speech to say what you believe.

That’s right Chryses, a hate crime. When the right wing is constantly villainizing gay people, calling them pedophiles then it stirs up hate. Then the dumbest of you, act on it.

Bud light made a can for a trans person… the right wing are still constantly screaming about it.. that trans person has received endless harassment and death threats. And for what? Because a dude is dressing like a girl. The right wing, the useful idiots like you who try to sanitize and spread their hateful messaging, are the actual villains.

Constant hateful rhetoric from the right wing’s leaders ends in hate crimes.

Quote by Chryses

There is no right to discriminate to be defended. There are several natural rights included in the First Amendment. One of them is a right to free speech that has been successfully defended.

So businesses don't have the right to deny services to gay people (which is a form of discrimination)? And said sanctioned discrimination doesn't result in hate crimes?

Quote by Chryses
Freedom of speech or religion, perhaps, but not discrimination.

so, i am curious. in YOUR opinion, do business's have the right to deny services to gays based on religious freedom simply because they are gay, or only if they are asking the business to do something that goes against their moral code? for example. if i go in and want to buy a cake, can they tell me no? or can they only deny me if i am asking for a wedding cake celebrating gay marriage?

Quote by Chryses

As requested, in my opinion, if you identify a cake in a display case that is for sale that you want to purchase, you cannot be denied the sale because of [the color of your skin, your religious POV, your sexual orientation, etc. ].

If, however, you request the cake maker create a cake celebrating a POV that is inconsistent with the world view of the cake maker, the cake maker can decline to do so.

ok. thanks for the straight answer (pun not intended )

Quote by Chryses

An honest question deserved an honest answer.

So your honest answer was that a business has the right to discriminate. 👍

Quote by Chryses

You are mistaken, for that was not my answer to the questions sprite asked.

So if I were to refuse service to anyone wearing a cross, that wouldn't be discrimination? Like say I don't want them doing anything funny with my wine like pretending it's blood.

Quote by Magical_felix

So if I were to refuse service to anyone wearing a cross, that wouldn't be discrimination? Like say I don't want them doing anything funny with my wine like pretending it's blood.

Not even the Devil's?

Quote by noll

Not even the Devil's?

No, you weirdo.

Quote by Chryses

Were you to refuse service to anyone wearing a cross, I would expect you to be successfully prosecuted for discrimination, as not wanting "them doing anything funny" with your wine seems to me to be an inadequate basis for you refusing to serve members of the public,

I think it wise to review that sales strategy with a local lawyer.

edited

in the context of the subject, Felix could just pull out his shotgun and shoot them. i mean, sure, it would be a dick move, but hey, that's kind of where we are headed right now.