Immigration

Man, maybe if we didn’t steal the land, create racist laws to drive out people, then go into the countries they settled and toppled the government we wouldn’t be having this influx of immigrants. Could also stop polluting the hell out of everything making the already unstable countries fall further into ruin.

The immigrant influx is 100% a consequence of America’s vicious political history (and present). The people being displaced should be seen as our responsibility, not our burden to be erased. Maybe we could divert some of those trillions of military dollars to actually helping people.

Quote by ElCoco

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That pollution is those government's responsibility.

How so, when the US is the root cause of it?

Quote by ElCoco

The Cubans and Venezuelans are leaving those authoritarian regimes to come to America.

Really need to study US history in terms of those countries if you don’t know how the YS has shaped those governments. We have an illegal blockade to Cuba and hundreds of attempts to assinate their leaders and overthrow their government creating food scarcity.

Venezuela has had America topple its socialist governments and pout in puppet right wing leaders before. After that the people eventually fought those back but American forces still try to create instability again and again. In recent years ‘Operation Gideon’ was the latest failed coup in 2020 where the US tried to fund a violent paramilitary group to attack the leaders.

So these countries must invest huge amounts of their government funds into military operations to defend from the US and then we get to the pollution issue you blew past.

The US is the leading producer of pollution by far. Our military makes more pollution in a year than Venezuela or Cuba does in their entire history. So when hurricanes get more frequent and powerful in places like Cuba you are going to see an influx of refugees driven by US created climate change.

I am saying the US has been the hands down #1 contributor to climate change, yes. You won’t find many scientists to disagree with that.

And you ignored why I said people are leaving those countries or the massive effect both successful and unsuccessful coup attempts initiated by the USA has had on those countries.

As far as the UN condemned blockade, here’s an article about the 29th year in a row the UN called on the US to end it but was again ignored.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/06/1094612

Want to look at the Chinese contribution to CO2 emissions closer? See that huge uptick in the 60’s and 70’s? That’s mostly driven by American manufacturing companies who moved factories to China to avoid labor and climate regulations in the US. In fact you’ll be surprised how much of other countries pollution is just American pollution by proxy.

And I really hate repeating myself to a brick wall so I’ll end this by repeating it a third time, refugees from Latin countries are largely fleeing food instability and violence created by the US. This is fact that’s well documented and proven by documents released by the freedom of information act. Yes, people flee countries that are under constant terrorist attack. The US had been the terrorist of Latin America since it’s inception really, but a huge uptick of that starting in the 1930’s to today has caused what people deem ‘the immigration crisis’ here in America.

Now I won’t be responding to you anymore, got more important things to do with my day from here on out.

Quote by Ironic

That's a pretty fuzzy accusation: "refugees from Latin countries are largely fleeing food instability and violence created by the US"

Sources, please.

*Broadly gestures to the last 100 years of US history*

‘Empire’s Workshop’ by Grandin is a good base level starter on this information. Every countries exact history with the US is different and could fill volumes on it’s own. All this info is stated in released US documents but those are often dry and hard to read. Lots of redacted info too which makes them choppy reads.

You could also make the argument that many Latin immigrants wish to return to their ancestral homeland, never a bad idea to take the genocidal land seize that brought about the American borders as they are today.

Quote by Ironic

I'll take you seriously when you back up your claims with facts like I did when I showed that your "US created climate change" claim wasn't supported by facts.

Well, you can’t fix voluntary ignorance I guess. Can’t fix an inability to read below the first line as well. Here’s a summery of how the US creates much of China’s pollution. I also encourage you to research terms such as ‘per capita’ and how the US is being compared to the entire EU on your chart. We are also only looking at carbon emissions which is only one piece of the climate puzzle. Polluted waterways, depleted soil, wiping out of ecosystems for corporate profits are also top priorities though we rarely discuss those.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/140122-made-in-china-pollution-from-exports

And once again, ignoring the centuries of imperialism and it’s consequences to the geopolitical and environmental present is just bending reality to suit your narrative.

The US is in the drivers seat of climate chaos and we’ll need to be the ones to fix the problems we made. And what pissed me off greatly on this subject is those who argue against it will generally have the luxury of being dead before things get really bad. It’s the youth of today who are really going to pay the price of American imperialism.

Can someone 'splain to me why this is a Biden issue? Or even a presidential issue? WTF is Congress doing about it? All they do is blame the Biden Administration when in reality, they have the power to legislate immigration reform, and that's exactly how this should be resolved. But they're too damn busy fund raising for their respective parties to actually do any real legislating for the American people!

Quote by Ironic

Read the subtitle of your link.

"Air pollutants generated in China during the manufacture of goods destined for export travel across the Pacific, contributing to U.S. smog."

Who manufactured those goods?

Ok, I’m done with you. You ask for sources and won’t read the article.

🙄

Quote by RowanThorn

🙄

pay no attention to the willfully ignorant for they are not interested in changing.

I wonder how many thousands of illegal immigrants will pour over the border while Republicans hold up the federal budget?

Quote by Chryses

Yours was a thorough rebuttal.

I was, not surprisingly, pleased to read your refutation of yet another "Climate change is the fault and responsibility of the U.S." nonsense. That the Europe of the Industrial Revolution was not composed of today's nations was probably a surprise for many here. It shows why the nations that did not exist then and those that do not exist now are properly represented by the region of Europe. By the way, when next presented with that uninformed claim, you might also ask why the "Just Stop Oil" fruitcakes insist on engaging in their vandalism if the U.S. is really to blame.

Funny how Just Stop Oil is being portrayed as vandals for throwing soup over a glass shield protecting a painting, while protesting the destruction of our entire planet as we know it.

Quote by Ironic

 

It’s misleading to think of historical CO2 emissions by country. The atmospheric CO2 is usually associated with the Industrial Revolution, and it’s often said to start in the late 1700s. Europe had different countries then than it does now. For example, Italy didn’t exist then. Neither did Greece or any of the Balkan countries.

 

So, instead of comparing country to country, it's more useful to compare Europe’s emissions to the US’s. That would be more of an apples-to-apples comparison. Using Statista, I summed up the historical emissions of European countries: 412.5 billion tons CO2 and the US’s historical emissions: 421.9 billion tons CO2.

 

25 percent of world’s emissions, 4 percent of world population. Ffs, own it; the west has screwed up... And the US is the leading actor

Quote by Chryses

You have every reason in the world to be concerned, for illegal immigration and inflation are two topics Republicans are sure to highlight in their campaigns.

Republican disinformation about immigration only works on dumbass republican voters who are voting republican anyway.

Democrats only problem at the voting booth is that Democrat voters have lives and don't always show up to vote.

That's why republicans right now are super triggered by Taylor Swift trying to get young people to register to vote.

More voters means Democrats get elected.

Quote by Chryses

Were I tasked with defending, as you appear to be, an unpopular policy, I, too, would be tempted to change the focus of the discussion from the thread topic, Immigration, to something else. Taylor Swift is as good a distraction as any.

A recent (24/26-SEP-23) poll indicates more than 50% of voters think the 2024 elections could be decided by illegal immigrants voting. Ref here the motor voter registration procedures found in some states. 

The level of satisfaction with U.S. immigration levels is the lowest it’s been in a decade, according to a Gallup poll. That survey revealed that 28% of respondents are satisfied with immigration levels, while 63% are dissatisfied with U.S. immigration overall. The percentage of respondents dissatisfied with U.S. immigration has risen sharply in recent years, going from 19% in 2021 to 40% in that poll.

You are mistaken. I did not bring up elections, you and Ironic did. I simply reminded you that only dumbasses are swayed by republican misinformation. And those dumbasses are already voting republican... even if they caught Trump pissing on their grandma's grave they'd vote for him. So it doesn't matter.

Just like how democratic voters don't vote a lot of the time, they certainly don't bother with polls. Only no lifers blaming their problems on immigrants, liberals, avocado toast or whatever waste their time with nonsense like that.

Quote by Chryses

The Gallup and Rasmussen organizations might disagree with your characterization of their polling as "misinformation".

Why do you think their reporting is misinformation?

I don't give a shit lol

Because it's cherry picked by you to push a false narrative. To make it seem like most of the country thinks like far right conservatives. When that obviously isn't the case.

Quote by Chryses

Perhaps someday, when you are willing to rely on evidence instead of ideology to guide your opinions, you will come to terms with the idea that other valid points of view exist.

Until then, you will dismiss what does not easily fit into your worldview on this and other issues.

I'll use the fact that Biden won over Trump by a huge margin because democrats showed up to vote as evidence.

The republicans will lose again in 2024 because their ghoulish beliefs are even less popular now with non-hogs.

Quote by Chryses

 Some possibilities are - as is also true for AGW - rather more likely than blaming the U.S. for the nasty living conditions the migrants are leaving. Venezuela is the poster child for such self infliced wounds. Among the reasons for approximately 20% of the population of Venezuela having been forced to emigrate (not all to the U.S.) is the economic crisis, from extreme poverty to hyperinflation, which itself stems from a few key factors. The principle factors are economic mismanagement, lack of economic diversification, and dependence on the production and exploitation of oil. The government of that country owns those policies.

 

 

In your opinion, why do you think republicans always vote against border security spending?

Quote by Ironic

[Removed by moderator. Pointless/disingenuous meandering.]

 

San Diego County declares migrant surge a humanitarian crisis

Is it less of a humanitarian crisis if it's in another state or in Mexico?

Quote by Ironic

[Removed by moderator. Pointless/disingenuous meandering.]

 

San Diego County declares migrant surge a humanitarian crisis

In your opinion, why do you think republicans always vote against border security spending?

The last sensible approach to immigration was from a President I despised: George W Bush. It would never fly in today Republican Party, whose policy is performative cruelty,. The Democrats would be wise to study it.

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/stateoftheunion/2007/initiatives/immigration.html

I've cleaned up the pedantic posts of Ironic, ElCoco, and Chryses in attempts to salvage this thread. I won't do so again. I'll simply lock it if this vein of posting continues.

Please have a read of this thread and be mindful of behavior that runs threads into the ground (as you've all done quite frequently as of late).

Quote by Chryses

New York City is not alone. Mayor Johnson announced Wednesday that Chicago is facing a projected $538 million budget deficit for 2024 – a financial burden his administration blamed partly on the growing cost of caring for migrants.

Chicago spent a budget of $437,932,791 for jails last year. That's incarceration alone. Then you add the billion dollar police budget, lawyers, judges, ect...

There. I've solved Chicago's budget. By focusing on violent crimes and redirecting budgets to social services (an extremely well documented way to actually lower crime rates) you've fixed your budget shortfall.

Has anyone thought of building a bigger wall and making East LA pay for it?

I am amazed at the total lack of solutions from any source government, individuals, and Lush. Commentary is directed at every administration only in the form of idiotic criticism. The Israelis built a wall and fortified it extensively and you see how well that worked. The solution ultimately must come from the origin of which vast corruption, special interests, and government incompetence will foil. Sit back and watch billions take wings.

Quote by Chryses

The economic migrants are unlikely to use 2,000+ rockets, motorized hang gliders, commercial drones carrying explosives, explosives to blow holes in the fence, bulldozers to widen the gaps, with motorbikes and vehicles to carry them through, as the Hamas militants did on Saturday.

Why you so scared then

How about anyone that doesn’t have at least 30% indigenous American DNA has to pay higher taxes. Like say… 50%. And if they don’t like it they can go back to Europe or Asia or anywhere else they are actually from. Then those taxes can be used to address the immigration catastrophe or whatever.

Quote by Magical_felix

How about anyone that doesn’t have at least 30% indigenous American DNA has to pay higher taxes. Like say… 50%. And if they don’t like it they can go back to Europe or Asia or anywhere else they are actually from. Then those taxes can be used to address the immigration catastrophe or whatever.

lol