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Serious Question re. Christianity

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clum
Clumeleon
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This thought was really troubling me yesterday, so I thought I'd seek out some other opinions, and maybe find someone who know the definitive answer to my question. It would be nice to put my mind at ease over this matter.

When Jesus (Christ, of Nazareth) walked on water, did it feel like a solid surface, or was it more like when people walk on custard?

My head just can't even begin to comprehend what it was like.

Also, let me know if you think this topic is too heavy and should be moved to The Think Tank.
noll
"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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LOL! As an atheist I don't believe there was a historical Jesus who did all the amazing stuff that's attributed to him, but I'm curious as to what answers will pop up to this question ;)


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

Dani
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
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1. There's no way to be absolutely sure as I don't ever recall it being mentioned how the water felt to him. But I'm sure if you go out to a pool or body of water and just graze the surface of the water with the base of your feet instead of submerging it, I'm sure you'd have your answer.

2. I don't think it's that heavy of a topic. But that's just me. If future posts indicate otherwise, I'll throw you to the lions (Read: Move it to the Think Tank).

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Liz
Scarlet Seductress
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Any Transmetropolitan fans in the house?

(If you've read it, you'll know why this is funny.)
jollylolly
Active Ink Slinger
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I don't believe this actually happened, but you should ask a bible study group. They love to argue over this sort of minutiae.
LASARDaddy
Story Verifier
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This has bothered me for years. I am an engineer and just accepting an idea like this is very hard. I can't. I also have trouble with the accepted images of Christ as a tall, Northern European instead of the swarthy, middle eastern Jew that he was. I just posted a picture on my wall of Adam and Eve, the pretty well accepted idea of them which I find VERY funny.

What you are asking can actually be done. They're called "Non-Neutonian Fluids" and you can see a video of them in action on YouTube here:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2XQ97XHjVw

There are quite a few and you can do this in your swimming pool. I DO NOT recommend that because clean-up can cost more than doing it. In the video you see one guy swimming and another walking across the water next to him.

I, and probably many others, would be quite interested in hearing about your experiences. I've never done that.

I'm not a Transmetropolitan fan Liz so I don't get the allusion. What about that makes this funny?
I am always a gentleman.
Unknown User
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Even when I did believe in the whole, god/jesus thing, it never crossed my mind. As I'm an atheist, I could care even less, because I know it never happened.
Mazza
Mazztastic
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I was assumed it was just allegory (is that the right word?)

I mean, given that there was no internet or newspapers or TV back then and that the majority of people were most likely poorly educated, I imagine that a story about a guy walking on water was just a huge exaggeration so that people would remember the story and talk about it to their friends, pass it on, spread the word... Just like we do with Facebook nowadays. If he "just" gave a great speech, the buzz would die down pretty quick, right? But to have walked on water, well, that's gonna be on everyone's lips for ages... Propaganda?

One of my kids asked me if I believed in Jesus and that he performed miracles.

I told her that as far as I knew, he was a real person who existed at one point and that I thought he sounded like a decent guy with some good ideas.

She said did I think he'd really done the thing with the loaves and fishes. I said that I thought it was more likely that he'd just gotten everyone who'd had the foresight to bring supplies with them, to share their food that day and that in itself probably seemed like a miracle (and in that sense, it may well have been)

Most likely, his speech that day was so moving and rousing that someone probably suggested he could have walked on water if he'd wanted... and it stuck? I dunno...

I don't "do" the whole religion thing.

Anyway, in answer to Clum, I don't think he did actually walk on water but I imagine that it would feel wet and soft on one's feet, if one could... Unless it was frozen (and of course you really could walk on that) which would obviously feel hard and cold - although I've never walked barefoot on ice, so I'm speculating...
Guest
Lurker
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It's not allegory. Jesus actually walked on water in the book of John. Peter did for a little while as well before he starts to sink.

as to what it felt like John never tells us because Jesus never tells his Apostles. It doesn't come up because In thr grand scheme of the Gospel what the water felt like under his feet has no baring on salvation.
Mazza
Mazztastic
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Quote by Haineko
It's not allegory. Jesus actually walked on water in the book of John. Peter did for a little while as well before he starts to sink.

as to what it felt like John never tells us because Jesus never tells his Apostles. It doesn't come up because In thr grand scheme of the Gospel what the water felt like under his feet has no baring on salvation.


That's based on the assumption that the bible is true and accurate? Even though it was passed on for many years by word of mouth before being written and interpreted by many different people?

Gotcha
ChuckEPoo
Chuckanator
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Well it is something I never pondered. I kinda the thought the atheists would respond to a question like this. How it felt? Wouldn't the question defer to if He actually walked on water. So both believers and unbelievers agree it is not physically possible. That is why it is called a miracle. It defied science and physical laws. I guess if you went to the first century and asked the people then what would be the greatest miracle, walking on water or .. Walking on the moon? What do you think would be the answer? I personally believe in Jesus. He is a proven historical person. He did live and was crucified unjustly in place of Barabas. He was seen by hundreds after his death. Did he do all the things they say? I guess that is why they call it faith.
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by Mazza


That's based on the assumption that the bible is true and accurate? Even though it was passed on for many years by word of mouth before being written and interpreted by many different people?

Gotcha

pretty much yeah. Faith is key

I believe it with all my heart but I know some don't. I will talk about the bible and my beliefs but I will never force it on anyone. .
dpw
Active Ink Slinger
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When I was a young Catholic I assumed that he didn't get his feet wet, he levitated over the water. I supposed it was similar to the Ascension.
runonwords
Active Ink Slinger
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Well it happens in my area every darn winter,,,,, and it feel pretty amazing walking on water!

Good thought provoking question thou!

the first thought that came to mind would be a high wire walker - keep your balance!
clum
Clumeleon
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Quote by Mazza
That's based on the assumption that the bible is true and accurate? Even though it was passed on for many years by word of mouth before being written and interpreted by many different people?

Gotcha


Actually, around the time that Jesus is supposed to have lived, it was very common for the most important information to be transmitted orally rather than written down.

I'm not saying that's a reason to take everything written in the bible at face value, by the way, only that the way it came into being was fairly standard practice.
Mazza
Mazztastic
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Quote by clum


Actually, around the time that Jesus is supposed to have lived, it was very common for the most important information to be transmitted orally rather than written down.

I'm not saying that's a reason to take everything written in the bible at face value, by the way, only that the way it came into being was fairly standard practice.


I know, that was what I meant in my first post...

Quote by mazza
I mean, given that there was no internet or newspapers or TV back then and that the majority of people were most likely poorly educated, I imagine that a story about a guy walking on water was just a huge exaggeration so that people would remember the story and talk about it to their friends, pass it on, spread the word... Just like we do with Facebook nowadays. If he "just" gave a great speech, the buzz would die down pretty quick, right? But to have walked on water, well, that's gonna be on everyone's lips for ages...
clum
Clumeleon
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Quote by Mazza
I know, that was what I meant in my first post...


I just mean that the story of Jesus' life being passed down orally doesn't necessarily make it any less reliable.

Some believe it to be a true and accurate account, which would mean Jesus really did walk on water—he must have told someone how it feels. Why was THAT never orally transmitted?
Guest
Lurker
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Quote by clum


I just mean that the story of Jesus' life being passed down orally doesn't necessarily make it any less reliable.

Some believe it to be a true and accurate account, which would mean Jesus really did walk on water—he must have told someone how it feels. Why was THAT never orally transmitted?

because it wasn't important. The fact he was able to calm a storm & walk on calm waters at all is important, that's the miracle
dpw
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by Haineko

because it wasn't important. The fact he was able to calm a storm & walk on calm waters at all is important, that's the miracle

One might think that it's a miracle people believe it.
Mazza
Mazztastic
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Quote by clum


I just mean that the story of Jesus' life being passed down orally doesn't necessarily make it any less reliable.

Some believe it to be a true and accurate account, which would mean Jesus really did walk on water—he must have told someone how it feels. Why was THAT never orally transmitted?


I disagree. Things are rarely passed on verbatim. People add details, forget details, omit the things they see as unimportant or irrelevant to them, accentuate the details they like or see as relevant. Did you ever play Chinese Whispers at school? Even a simple phrase can be completely different by the time it gets to the last person.

Things are lost and added in the translation and interpretation of any story or a history. That's a fact. It depends who's telling it. Look at Cinderella and how the original versions differ from the modern ones. Did you know that it was originally a Chinese tale and that in subsequent versions, her stepsisters cut off parts of their feet to fit into her lost shoe? (as her feet had been bound and were tiny as a result?) It's not much like Disney version.

I'm sure the history of World War II (to draw another example at random) varies greatly in its telling. I'm sure that the British version differs to that of the Germans or the Japanese, or Italians, or French, or American, or Polish, or Jewish - you know?

I'm just saying that I don't think that the bible (and even that varies depending on which version or edition you read) is a 100% accurate retelling of exactly what happened all those years ago. Have you read 1984 by George Orwell?

As a matter of interest, were other things described in that way? The feelings? I mean, was the whole walking on water thing omitted while he included his feelings of elation at raising someone from the dead, or having his feet washed and so on?
clum
Clumeleon
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Quote by Mazza
I disagree. Things are rarely passed on verbatim. People add details, forget details, omit the things they see as unimportant or irrelevant to them, accentuate the details they like or see as relevant. Did you ever play Chinese Whispers at school? Even a simple phrase can be completely different by the time it gets to the last person.


But it's not like Chinese Whispers. That was the main way that important information and teachings were recorded and transmitted. Scholar made a great deal of effort and took a great deal of pride in memorising them precisely from the previous person.

Again, I'm not saying I believe the Bible is true and accurate. I don't know anything about how the story of Jesus' life was transmitted and came to be recorded in writing. I just don't think we can so easily poo-poo something that was the common, standard way of doing things.

Quote by Mazza
Things are lost and added in the translation and interpretation of any story or a history. That's a fact. It depends who's telling it. Look at Cinderella and how the original versions differ from the modern ones. Did you know that it was originally a Chinese tale and that in subsequent versions, her stepsisters cut off parts of their feet to fit into her lost shoe? (as her feet had been bound and were tiny as a result?) It's not much like Disney version.


I did know that. And the fact that any of us know that goes to show that this it's a very different situation. Yes, the story has been changed and adapted, but the original has never truly been lost.

Quote by Mazza
I'm sure the history of World War II (to draw another example at random) varies greatly in its telling. I'm sure that the British version differs to that of the Germans or the Japanese, or Italians, or French, or American, or Polish, or Jewish - you know?


I'm sure you're right. But the history of WWII has, by and large, been recorded in writing, and still it seems to vary. And that's more a case of different perspectives/biases rather than changing as it gets passed down over time.

Quote by Mazza
I'm just saying that I don't think that the bible (and even that varies depending on which version or edition you read) is a 100% accurate retelling of exactly what happened all those years ago. Have you read 1984 by George Orwell?


I agree. And no, I have not.

Quote by Mazza
As a matter of interest, were other things described in that way? The feelings? I mean, was the whole walking on water thing omitted while he included his feelings of elation at raising someone from the dead, or having his feet washed and so on?


I actually don't know. I'd be very interested to find out, too.
Mazza
Mazztastic
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Quote by clum


I actually don't know. I'd be very interested to find out, too.


I wasn't poo-pooing it, that sort of ironically illustrates how easy it is to mis-write or misinterpret what someone has said, doesn't it?

I think it's interesting too but I still don't believe it's accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_the_Bible

By the way, neither of those are links dismissing anything - they're just about its history
LASARDaddy
Story Verifier
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Quote by Mazza
I was assumed it was just allegory (is that the right word?)



All very good words and I think Mazza said it first. I pretty much told all of ours the same thing.

But I have seen people walk on water!

In reality it was them walking across a flat, very hot desert and the thermal-cline at ground level reflects light, the sky actually, and it looks like water. A mirage! A "Cline" is an area where there is a large temperature difference.

I worked on Polaris/Poseidon submarines and one of the tricks submariners use to hide is actually laying 25,000 TONS of submarine on that temperature cline and it will float there. It actually moves like the surface of the ocean, undulating waves, and is a really wild feeling knowing where you are. They can turn off all noise making machinery and disappear. That was a common thing in WW2 if they could find one.

Either Jesus did that or there were rocks just below the surface. There is a movie where some Asian dude runs across water but there is a platform an inch under the surface.

I think it's allegory too. It was written by men, not God. Every word and man is very fallible, prone to error and very much into exaggeration. I could wander in the desert for a month or two hallucinating from starvation and lack of water and write some very interesting stories too. Maybe start a new religion.

In the movie Terminator the jerk psychologist tells her it's a "Perfect Delusion", he was right. No one can prove that it's right, but no one can prove it's wrong.

I've asked many, friends, priests, preachers, anyone that was very religious and all of them try to prove the existence of God by reading me the bible.

I do not deny God, I think it's something different and that's the only way most can accept it.

Besides, God screwed up too. If He's Omniscient (that means he knows everything in all of time) then why did He create the angel that became the devil? He should have known and made him different. He's all so supposed to be Omnipotent (that means that NOTHING in all of creation is more powerful) then why is there a battle between him and the devil? Kill the bastard and end it.

But he's still there and all I can think is that God wants us to suffer. Free choice? Horse hockey, when man exercised that gift he killed all of them except Noah because he was pissed, which I also think is allegory about when the Bosphorus collapsed and the Black Sea was created. If he can get that angry then why is he seen as a benevolent God?

All questions no one has an answer for. All questions I ask.

I do not attack anyone else's beliefs, ever. That is absolutely wrong in my world. I was not put here to judge anyone, I am not perfect, no one is so I bitterly resent people telling me I'm wrong in my beliefs. My brother is an Oklahoma-Born again-Bible banging-Baptist and I still talk to him. He tells me I'm going to hell because of who I talk to.

I have many friends with strong beliefs and I respect every one of them. The only ones I don't are the ones that mouth others words and have no idea what they're talking about. I do not fight with anyone about it but if you can't bother to take the time to learn about it don't talk to me, and I walk away.

Each has an opinion and is free to tell it. That's what this place, Lush, is all about and I love it. Some get really angry and I'm sorry about that but each of us is different. I resent being proselytized but will talk to anyone about it.

Thank you for reading.

I am always a gentleman.