Hmmm, it seems that someone else may actually have been reading this after all......
Durrasch -
Errr... I feel obligated to point out that it is difficult to expect the last word if you insist on asking a question. (*smiling*)
The Goldilocks Dilemma refers to the fact that the Universe is "juuuust right". There are so many fundamental physical laws and phenomena which, if they were only slightly different, would have prevented intelligent life from ever evolving. So the question is - does this mean that it had to be by design? Or do we say that the question is moot, because if the Universe were otherwise we would not be here to even ask this question? Or are there other possible answers?
Paul Davies is a theoretical physicist who also lectures and writes in philosophy of science. He does a wonderful job of presenting things as they are, asking the right questions, and then letting the facts (what we know, and what we DON'T know) speak for themselves. To be honest, I don't even know whether he believes in God himself - he is very scrupulous about not letting his own opinions interfere with his exposition. And when he DOES interject an opinion of his own, he is almost apologetic about it. I think you'll enjoy him. Truly mind-expanding stuff.
About your last comment:
"I have never met a "believer" that was interested in finding the truth, etc."
If we may be considered to have "met", you will have to modify that sentence to replace "never" with "seldom". (*smiling*)
Daniel
Hey Apple,
Just for the sake of accuracy (and I agree that it's beside the point), there were just under 7 million Jews killed in the Holocaust. Plus a whole lot more Gypsies, homosexuals, and others. And there were no more than a hundred thousand Japanese Nisei interned in camps during WWII. While what the Americans did was awful, it cannot be compared (or even mentioned in the same breath) with the Nazi extermination program.
"For the two gentlemen above I have a few questions, I have read all your threads and they made me think, what are you calling flaws / victories?"
I'm not overly interested in keeping a scorecard. But I don't agree that "it's all relative".
If your premise is that "one person's war crime is another person's justified act of self defense", then I have to take issue with you. I do believe that some acts (and people) are just plain evil. We can try to understand what may have happened to them to make them the way they are. But in the end, I believe that we are all accountable for our own actions. Strapping a bomb to yourself and blowing up two teenage girls sitting in a pizza shop is just not an acceptable form of social protest, in my book.
"I think that is way more then enough, now I will sit back and wait for the angry people to come rip me to shreads over this."
If anyone tries to touch a hair on your lovely head, they'll have to come through me.... (*smiling*)
Glad to see someone was interested enough to actually respond.
One example that Davies presents is the formation of heavier elements inside stars. It seems that if the relationship between the weak force and the strong force was changed by even 2%,no elements from carbon and up could have formed. It's difficult to imagine any chemistry or biology taking place under those circumstances - the Universe would likely be barren. This is not a proof of anything, of course. But there are enough examples like this to make the question worth asking.
On a personal note - while I do believe in God, I don't think that He/She/It bears any resemblance to what 99% of "believers" imagine. And I'm pretty certain that anyone claiming to speak in the name of God doesn't have a clue as to what they are talking about. I am much more impressed by people who understand what they DON'T know.
Finally - is it just me, or is that smiling llama really getting ready to spit?
the only thing that I have to add is a quote from the film Kingdom Of Heaven:
Hospitaller: I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What god desires is here
[points to head]
Hospitaller: and here
[points to heart]
Hospitaller: and by what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man - or not.
I believe that this shows religion for what it truly is.
NOTE: I apologize for all the differences in bold vs. non-bold print, the comments I am responding to are in bold and mine are non-bolded print. I apologize for any confusion, but techknowledgy is not likeing me today and I can't get it to only quote small peices of info.
I DON’T agree with any of the things that people did to others, for me it is hard to comprehend how people can shot others, and inflict pain onto one another, that is one thing in this world that I doubt I will ever understand. With that said let me begin:
My cynicism has nothing to do with coolness. It has to do with 100 million indigenous Americans killed in 400 years by Europeans; with 11 million dead Jews, Roma, and Sinti; 26 million dead Russians.
Durrr you are the one who said 11million Jews. IF you had actually read what I said I NEVER condoned what Dr. Mangdala and Hitler did in medical science. My point was that we look at it now and say, “wow that was really bad and those men and women are evil” but at that time those same men and women felt that they were doing the right thing. I DON’T agree with their logic on that in any shape or form. You two mentioned that mankind has done horrific things to itself, and it has BUT its all a matter of perspective. If you only look at something through one view point then you are narrow minded and ignorant of the world around you.
I used my own religion (which I do believe in, in my own way) because it is something that I am used to and something in which I am semi-knowledgeable in. I have not spent years studying other’s religions and so I can not make any claims from them showing or not showing my point.
Wars in "God's name" are a silly excuse for man to show his dominace over other groups of man.
Sometimes. Oftentimes, though, the name of God is merely a cover for other underlying grievances. God is usually not the reason for the war, just the mobilisation tool employed by the elites.
You just said the exact same thing I did.
And there were no more than a hundred thousand Japanese Nisei interned in camps during WWII. While what the Americans did was awful, it cannot be compared (or even mentioned in the same breath) with the Nazi extermination program.
You are telling me that because the Americans only harmed 100K people instead of 7 million people that it is insignificant. I’m willing to bet that if you talked to those 100K people or their families they would beg to differ. I do agree that they are not equal, that doesn’t make one less significant than the other.
If your premise is that "one person's war crime is another person's justified act of self defense", then I have to take issue with you. I do believe that some acts (and people) are just plain evil. We can try to understand what may have happened to them to make them the way they are. But in the end, I believe that we are all accountable for our own actions. Strapping a bomb to yourself and blowing up two teenage girls sitting in a pizza shop is just not an acceptable form of social protest, in my book.
I agree 100% that we are accountable for our actions good and bad. Everyone makes a choice to do what they do each and every day. You refuse to see the other side of argument, and that is that these men and women who abused others in the name of their country didn’t do anything different then what mankind has been doing for centuries, the major differences are that a different form of genocide was used this time around and that there was media present that helped bring all of this to the average person’s attention. Read real history about the American Revolution and the Civil War the things we did to each other are unthinkable. Even now in “civilized times” we have countries that still perform genocide, but because they are doing it to themselves the world ignores it. Strapping a bomb to ones self is not a fair comparison (although I do agree that it is not an acceptable form of social protest.)
If anyone tries to touch a hair on your lovely head, they'll have to come through me.... (*smiling*)
Thank you!
Glad to see someone was interested enough to actually respond.
Durr you said you wanted people to see the truth, whose truth would that be, yours or mine or someone else’s?
I think you have missed something in my posts, and maybe I didn't make myself clear, which is a good possiblity. Since you seem to be missing my point, I am going to do my head a huge favor and just let it go. I can only hit the brick wall so many times before my migraine pills don't work anymore.
There were times when no social conspiracies could have existed. Where we were advanced animals, hunting, mating, howling. Even then, something inside us made us search for more, and believe for more. It began by worshipping the sun, or the fire, or the lightning, or the wind, or the earth... Long before supposed leaders were trying to figure out methods to drive their minions over their enemies.
The truth, and the way we interpret it, is not always the same thing. In fact, maybe it rarely is. There are answers that only one can give himself/herself, such as if he/she is in love, and he/she believes in a superior creator. So basically you listen, read what is told, analyse it, observe things for yourself, mix them with your own feelings and your experiences, and come to a result. As long as this is between you and you, it doesn't matter what you believe in. Things only get screwed up when you try to impose this belief to someone else for war, money, asimilation etc. which has been done millions of time, which has nothing to do with the truth itself. (whatever it is.) So maybe you don't believe in god. Ok. Just don't scream "jesus!" or "oh my god" when you see a lightning striking a man a few meters ahead of you and survive without harm. Just stay calm and express the situation like "interesting coincidance, dude..." and keep walking.
Believing in something greater, a creator is maybe the result of looking into oneself, maybe. One tends to believe he/she has a much greater potential inside him/her somehow, the feeling of being a part of something much more greater. Being parted, or being given life from something. This helps you when you are alone in the dark and an unseen enemy is stalking you, or when you are a pilot and lose two engines at the same time with 200 passengers behind, or when you are a scientist at chernobyl and alarms go wild. Again, how you interpret this feeling is not neccesarily the truth. You may sit calmly and say "whatever god wishes, is going to happen" and let the plant blow up, or "my god, give me power to save these people!" and land the plane on water sliding, without harm to anyone.
Basically, when we were not so much dependent on our technology and society, we were a much more spiritual race. It is undeniable; life is something magical. But being sentient... if you are careful at analysing, you can notice that an evolution pyhsically can be easily explained, but an evolution of mind is not the same thing.
Answer to presence of god? Well.. who cares except you? What if your neighbour believes in sun, or goats, or flies, or toilet pumps. as long as this is between him and him, that is. When you cross this line, no matter what, it is no longer religion, or a belief. It is a fight.
