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the role of the dom and sub

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Cock Connoisseur
Quote by slipperywhenwet2012


So following this logic...a master without a sub is just a dominant? So is a submissive without a master not a submissive? What then would he/she be? Because although a master has no sub, they still remain a dominant. So would a submissive not be a submissive without a master?

I ask because I have friends here who are subs, and they say they are, even if they have no master. But you seem to be saying that a submissive, by definition, isn't a submissive unless he/she has a master.


Sorry but I am going ot chime in here. I disagree with that statement (yes I know it isn't your statement Dani). I am first and foremost a woman, I am also a submissive woman without a Master, but that in no way makes me any less submissive. If one is truly submissive its a part of who they are, not just a role they play when the mood stikes (those types of subs/slaves yes, I would agree aren't submissive unless they have a Master). Just because I am without a Master, does not make me less submissive than if I had one to offer my submission to.
Her Royal Spriteness
Quote by slipperywhenwet2012


So following this logic...a master without a sub is just a dominant? So is a submissive without a master not a submissive? What then would he/she be? Because although a master has no sub, they still remain a dominant. So would a submissive not be a submissive without a master?

I ask because I have friends here who are subs, and they say they are, even if they have no master. But you seem to be saying that a submissive, by definition, isn't a submissive unless he/she has a master.


if you are a submissive, it has nothing to do with having a Dom/me or not. you simply are. just as if you are a Dominant, you simply are - now, in order to be a Dom/me or Master/Mistress you need a sub/pet/slave/etc, and a sub without a Dom/me is only a sub, not a pet/slave/etc - does that help?

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by sprite


if you are a submissive, it has nothing to do with having a Dom/me or not. you simply are. just as if you are a Dominant, you simply are - now, in order to be a Dom/me or Master/Mistress you need a sub/pet/slave/etc, and a sub without a Dom/me is only a sub, not a pet/slave/etc - does that help?


It does, thanks for that. And thanks for your input too, Ravyn. It just throws me off because I'd at least like to have some understanding of this lifestyle even if I don't want to be a part of it. And I always come across the role of the sub being minimized, when it's just as important, I would think. I just always see more emphasis on the sub serving her master as a whole instead of the master serving his sub.

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Lurker
Part of the confusion may stem from this modern tendency to make verbs become nouns (yes, there's a grammar to BDSM, too). Basic: Subject (noun) verb (action) object (noun). He dominates her/him. She dominates him/her. He/she submits to him/her. And so forth. When you apply the verbs dominate/submits to as labels: He/she is a dominant. He/she is a submissive. Then it gets confuses as hell. Because there is no object. Dominant over who or what? Submissive to who or what?

I think this is true of Master/slave as well. One can be Master of something (a craft, an Art, a slave), but the blanket term Master implies nothing specific. For a slave, there has to be something they are slave to (an obsession, an addiction, a Master who owns, etc.). Dominant and submissive are, in my humble opinion, personality traits, part of the makeup of a person's self, but as personality traits they are not absolutes (as too many people take them to be). Being submissive might only apply to submitting to a specific person rather than submitting to anyone/anything. On the other hand, there does seem to be people who are, by nature or personality, shy, retiring, fearful, easily led, etc. who could be considered generically submissive.

I think we have to consider people as individuals with many facets to their personality and self, not apply these "labels" of this or that. But that's just me...perhaps...
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by yourmisterdark
I think we have to consider people as individuals with many facets to their personality and self, not apply these "labels" of this or that. But that's just me...perhaps....


This is the way I've always thought any lifestyle should be approached, and not just BDSM. But some people emphasize those labels so much that it gets to the point where that alone defines them, instead of it just being another trait like dark hair or blue eyes or brown skin. I've always thought it should never be that way, no matter how deeply involved in a lifestyle you are. My question has always been, "What are you without the title?" It never fails. Every conversation I've ever had about BDSM always comes back to this.

And in my opinion, if all you are is wrapped up in whatever side you represent, whether you're dominant or submissive, then you've limited yourself. And if you don't know who you are outside of that, how can you serve someone else as a dom/master or a slave/submissive?

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Cock Connoisseur
Quote by slipperywhenwet2012


This is the way I've always thought any lifestyle should be approached, and not just BDSM. But some people emphasize those labels so much that it gets to the point where that alone defines them, instead of it just being another trait like dark hair or blue eyes or brown skin. I've always thought it should never be that way, no matter how deeply involved in a lifestyle you are. My question has always been, "What are you without the title?" It never fails. Every conversation I've ever had about BDSM always comes back to this.

And in my opinion, if all you are is wrapped up in whatever side you represent, whether you're dominant or submissive, then you've limited yourself. And if you don't know who you are outside of that, how can you serve someone else as a dom/master or a slave/submissive?



Its me again smile I get what you are saying and for me personally I am much more than just a submissive. Yes its who I am, just as my gender is female and my hair is brunette. I am not limiting myself in any way. I am a willful, strong, opinionated outspoken woman who will tell anyone anything if asked and sometimes if not. I am also a mother, a student and avid reader and an occassional writer of erotica, I could go on but you get the gist. Everything about me is what makes me, well me and that includes my submissiveness. Its just one part that makes up the woman who is me :)
Lurker
Quote by yourmisterdark
Part of the confusion may stem from this modern tendency to make verbs become nouns (yes, there's a grammar to BDSM, too). Basic: Subject (noun) verb (action) object (noun). He dominates her/him. She dominates him/her. He/she submits to him/her. And so forth. When you apply the verbs dominate/submits to as labels: He/she is a dominant. He/she is a submissive. Then it gets confuses as hell. Because there is no object. Dominant over who or what? Submissive to who or what?

I think this is true of Master/slave as well. One can be Master of something (a craft, an Art, a slave), but the blanket term Master implies nothing specific. For a slave, there has to be something they are slave to (an obsession, an addiction, a Master who owns, etc.). Dominant and submissive are, in my humble opinion, personality traits, part of the makeup of a person's self, but as personality traits they are not absolutes (as too many people take them to be). Being submissive might only apply to submitting to a specific person rather than submitting to anyone/anything. On the other hand, there does seem to be people who are, by nature or personality, shy, retiring, fearful, easily led, etc. who could be considered generically submissive.

I think we have to consider people as individuals with many facets to their personality and self, not apply these "labels" of this or that. But that's just me...perhaps...


I completely agree with this! People involved in the D/s world fall into the categories based on who they are but can differ from one another by multiple degrees.(Some more hardcore, other not. People enjoying the different aspects and angles of D/s)
While I was discovering who I was and how I liked the lifestyle and where I fell. I realized I am a submissive. My personality is submissive it is simply who I am. There isn't one thing that makes me submissive nor do I "play" submissive. I just am.

To kinda explain this its somewhat similar to how I trained my dog. I read so many books and watched videos on how to "dominate" my dog. (kinda like how ppl do w bdsm) However for me to do that.. It was very forced and unnatural for me. I started hating being with my dog simply because of that. When I learned how to "guide" my dog. (can be compared to helping another submissive or dominant through conversation or what have you.) I started enjoying that time with him. I also didn't have to force myself to do something that I'm not naturally inclined to do.

Now, people are not dogs but believe it or not (I really don't care if it offends you) We are very very similar to dogs (hell animals in general) The way we respond emotionally and socially is strikingly similar.(For those who don't believe me.. Take a look at (unnamed) "Master" who has been making himself look like an ass and my point will be evident) I notice things that work like this in D/s relationships a lot. Especially when people try to label themselves.. I'm a slave, submissive, little, babygirl, roleplayer, Master, Dom/me, Mistress, Daddy, etc... The list goes on and on and on...

Really, its all just our natural inclinations in either a dominate or submissive manner that then our personalities and individuality change the label we want to put on ourselves. The labels are really not that important.. Its just a way to tell others about ourselves.
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by Ravyn


Its me again smile I get what you are saying and for me personally I am much more than just a submissive. Yes its who I am, just as my gender is female and my hair is brunette. I am not limiting myself in any way. I am a willful, strong, opinionated outspoken woman who will tell anyone anything if asked and sometimes if not. I am also a mother, a student and avid reader and an occassional writer of erotica, I could go on but you get the gist. Everything about me is what makes me, well me and that includes my submissiveness. Its just one part that makes up the woman who is me :)


I totally get where you're coming from, and I respect that so much.

And I'm flattered that you have a crush on me, but this following me around on the forums has got to stop Ravyn. I'm taken, as you well know.

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Active Ink Slinger
Some very good insights on this thread! I am pleased to see the conversations going on here! Slippery, let Me add a little something to this. IMHO ( yes humble opinion) part of the confusion here as I believe Mr. Dark was trying to point out is that people sometimes misuse the word submissive and dominant. you can be submissive without being A submissive. Just as you can be dominant without being a dominant. The words refer to your state of mind and your attitude towards others. Perhaps they should come up with another word to "name" the players in the game. That is why I call Myself a Master - because it says I am a dominant without mixing up the name/action ideas.

But a true Master is more than just a Dom, I believe. Because you can be a Dom for a short time in the bedroom. You can play the Dom role during sex games. but I LIVE this life - it is who I am. I cannot separate Master from Jonathan. That is what makes a Master. the giving your life to the D/s realm. I have been a Dom all My life. But I have been a Master for only part of it. Does that make sense?
Cock Connoisseur
Quote by slipperywhenwet2012


I totally get where you're coming from, and I respect that so much.

And I'm flattered that you have a crush on me, but this following me around on the forums has got to stop Ravyn. I'm taken, as you well know.


You are such a brat Dani lol It is not my fault you keep posting in a section that I find near and dear to my heart and often frequent.

Yes I know you are taken but as you well know I don't swing on this side of the fence I want cock not pussy smile so Roy..........she is all yours, and you better be good to her or else
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by Ravyn


You are such a brat Dani lol Yes I know you are taken but as you well know I don't swing on this side of the fence I want cock not pussy smile so Roy..........she is all yours, and you better be good to her or else


Brat is such a relative term, don't you think? But it is no relative of mine.




P.S. It's so cute when you get all protective.

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Cock Connoisseur
Quote by slipperywhenwet2012


Brat is such a relative term, don't you think? But it is no relative of mine.




P.S. It's so cute when you get all protective.



Oh indeed it is a relative term and I do think you are related, just as Roy he's said it many times smile



Now behave, I am trying to get some work done here at work!!!
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Quote by Ravyn



Oh indeed it is a relative term and I do think you are related, just as Roy he's said it many times smile



Now behave, I am trying to get some work done here at work!!!


Oh my God, that's so inaccurate. My hair looks nothing like that...it's curly. And I talk about penis waaaaaaaay more than that.

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Active Ink Slinger
Hey everyone, I would like to say my lovely wife and I have been practicing this lifestyle for just over a year now full time. I lead and she follows, we have yet to settle on a titles for our roles as they mean nothing to us. At the end of the day we are married, our lives are intertwined and while we are still learning so much about this world. We try to discuss as much as we can together, D/s requires the same attentiveness and communication as all relationships. I cherish my wife/sub she is my everything. It is so fulfilling to see the joy in her eyes as I try to handle the gift of her submission, to guide her and myself down the path of fulfillment. I have yet to come across any black and white rules for any relationship of any class. I dominate, love, guide, care for, and nurture my sub. In turn she follows my guidance and relishes in my love. One of my favorite things in this relationship of mine is prying into her heart to hear her laughter and her intelligence. No title will ever change that. Our relationship works like every other mutual respect and love.
Wild at Heart
Quote by MasterTredem
Hey everyone, I would like to say my lovely wife and I have been practicing this lifestyle for just over a year now full time. I lead and she follows, we have yet to settle on a titles for our roles as they mean nothing to us. At the end of the day we are married, our lives are intertwined and while we are still learning so much about this world. We try to discuss as much as we can together, D/s requires the same attentiveness and communication as all relationships. I cherish my wife/sub she is my everything. It is so fulfilling to see the joy in her eyes as I try to handle the gift of her submission, to guide her and myself down the path of fulfillment. I have yet to come across any black and white rules for any relationship of any class. I dominate, love, guide, care for, and nurture my sub. In turn she follows my guidance and relishes in my love. One of my favorite things in this relationship of mine is prying into her heart to hear her laughter and her intelligence. No title will ever change that. Our relationship works like every other mutual respect and love.


Behold, an actual master. As far as a couple saying they are in the BDSM lifestyle goes anyway. No pretension here. Just a guy and a chick doing their thing.