what is important?

what a man needs to have for attracting girls?

3 Aug 2013

You should have added more variety to your choices, for example :

- nice muscles
- defined body
- hot vascularity
- pumping biceps
- sweaty hunk

It's nice you completely discarded personality, intelligence, sense of humor, social status, kindness, politeness, sense of responsabilities, reciprocity, moral respectability...

No woman is attracted by such obscure concepts, numsayin brah?

3 Aug 2013

He probably just meant traits for instant physical attraction.

Anyway - I went with athletic body, but face is important too. I'm not into a heavily muscled (ie. roid-enhanced) physique. Strong, healthy, fit with some muscle definition is best. It's one of the few things a person can control to a certain degree - tallness and good looks are typically more based on the genetic lottery.

That also doesn't mean a guy has to look like an Olympic athlete - obviously there will be non physical factors that have a much greater influence on overall attraction, so it's not all just based on a physical ideal but I think health and general fitness is important.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by Dancing_Doll
He probably just meant traits for instant physical attraction.

Still, his choices are vague and pretty much all point out to a good physical shape/condition. Hence the semi-serious list I proposed.

An athletic body will also be a muscular one, featuring good looks and a sexy bum...

3 Aug 2013

Quote by Dancing_Doll
He probably just meant traits for instant physical attraction.

Anyway - I went with athletic body, but face is important too. I'm not into a heavily muscled (ie. roid-enhanced) physique. Strong, healthy, fit with some muscle definition is best. It's one of the few things a person can control to a certain degree - tallness and good looks are typically more based on the genetic lottery.

That also doesn't mean a guy has to look like an Olympic athlete - obviously there will be non physical factors that have a much greater influence on overall attraction, so it's not all just based on a physical ideal but I think health and general fitness is important.

huh. I'd say muscle definition is definitely a genetic lottery. I've worked out like crazy the last several years and changed my diet a ton. Like my uncle though, I ended up with the tall/slim look. Now I pretty much have the cross country look. Toned torso for sure, but most certainly not huge arms.

But, in regards to attraction period, you bring up the most salient point. Health and general fitness is definitely a key attraction to me in a girl. It means they care about their own personal health and love to be active. Knowing a girl is really active athletically is a bigger turn-on than just simple looks (i.e. the facial appearance and what have you).

Quote by SereneProdigy

Still, his choices are vague and pretty much all point out to a good physical shape/condition. Hence the semi-serious list I proposed.

An athletic body will also be a muscular one, featuring good looks and a sexy bum...

Not necessarily. There are definitely different forms of athleticism and types. I'd say I'm definitely stronger than I appear. You definitely wouldn't see a ton of muscle definition on my body, even though I work out a ton. Same for females. Body types are certainly not all the same.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy
An athletic body will also be a muscular one, featuring good looks and a sexy bum...

Not necessarily. I'm pretty active physically and have been since my teens. Especially in the years I played volley ball. My body, while toned, isn't exactly muscular. I admit to having a decent butt, partly due to my athleticism, but also due to my genetics. I also have pretty well-defined calves, as well...again, due to the athleticism. Putting all of that aside, I definitely wouldn't describe myself as 'muscular' but I'm not flabby, either.

As far as my physical preference goes, the over the top muscles are definitely a turn off for me. Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) comes to mind. I used to find him super attractive before the bulk. Now I can't even look at him.

I like a nice fit guy with obvious signs that he takes care of his body. So I'm gonna go with athletic because it encompasses that the best, I think.

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3 Aug 2013

Quote by MadMartigan

Not necessarily. There are definitely different forms of athleticism and types. I'd say I'm definitely stronger than I appear. You definitely wouldn't see a ton of muscle definition on my body, even though I work out a ton. Same for females. Body types are certainly not all the same.

These are the bodies of different athletes, from different disciplines. They all show some form of apparent muscularity and definition, caused by low bodyfat levels. This is what most people refer to when citing an athletic body.

My point is, his poll makes you choose your prefered term instead of your actual prefered body appearance. Pictures would have helped. For example, both of these men can be considered muscular to different degrees :

3 Aug 2013

a good smile!

3 Aug 2013

#1 is confidence.

Girls are initially attracted to good looks, as are men, but confidence seals the deal.

When you think about the traits a man might have who does well with women, they could be:

- looks
- money
- power
- intelligence

Men who have these traits, often have confidence as a result of it. It's the one thing in common and the silent killer.

{allba115-feed-5eed-facedeadbeef}

3 Aug 2013

Quote by paul_moadib
#1 is confidence.

Girls are initially attracted to good looks, as are men, but confidence seals the deal.

The thing is, confidence is actually part of a man's appearance, as displayed by his clothes, posture, mannerisms, gestures, etc.

3 Aug 2013

Actually I consider a 'muscular' vs 'athletic' body (because he cited them as separate choices) to mainly mean bodybuilder/bulked up guy vs lean muscle but toned/fit/athletic guy. They both have muscle mass but when I think of an athletic body type, I don't think of a roided up beefy muscular guy. I think of lean muscle mass - like a swimmer's body - healthy but natural. Pretty much those side-by-side pics that SP posted sum up the differences best if we're just looking at the options on the poll and they way they're differentiated.

To a degree, genetics obviously play a role - everyone's body has natural tendencies and predispositions. But anyone can be healthy/fit with the right discipline and commitment - that's what I meant about being able to 'control it to some degree'. Someone who is predisposed to being heavy can turn the tides with diet/exercise/discipline but it takes more effort. Obviously not everyone can be an athlete (professionally) or look like a sculpted Greek God, but everyone can attain some degree of health and fitness. I think that's what's attractive to most women when they say they want a fit guy. It's attainable (unless someone has a medical condition etc.). And you can still be quite lean (or even thick) but still be reasonably fit.

I also don't think that having an athletic body and a good-looking face necessarily always go hand in hand - so I can see why the OP would differentiate them. It's like the whole 'butterface' theory when guys talk about women sometimes. It can also apply to guys.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by Dancing_Doll
Actually I consider a 'muscular' vs 'athletic' body (because he cited them as separate choices) to mainly mean bodybuilder/bulked up guy vs lean muscle but toned/fit/athletic guy. They both have muscle mass but when I think of an athletic body type, I don't think of a roided up beefy muscular guy. I think of lean muscle mass - like a swimmer's body - healthy but natural. Pretty much those side-by-side pics that SP posted sum up the differences best if we're just looking at the options on the poll and they way they're differentiated.

Still, I think pictures would have been way more appropriate. There's a lot of variation just for the bodybuilder type : some of them actually look good and natural (although quite big), while others can be monstrous beasts. Athletic can also imply a lot of things. What kind of athlete are we talking about? A 110 lbs marathon runner? A swimmer? A power-lifter?

As I've said, and I don't mean to offend, my opinion is that this poll is strongly biased from the start. These terms all evoke different images in our individual minds, so the final results are going to be subject to a lot of interpretation. I sometimes participate in bodybuilding forums and this question has been raised waaay often, that is, what women in general consider the best looking physique for males. In these forums, a lot of people contributed with serious studies and the consensus is pretty much this :

This actually pisses off the veteran bodybuilders in the forums, as these males are not very muscular. These show decent muscle mass, with an average of 10% bodyfat. That's what is considered the most generally attractive, as considered by studies.

Also, to better apprehend the different types of male bodies, this picture might provide a better perspective :
The most pleasant looking body according to this, is somewhere between toned and athletic.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy

Still, I think pictures would have been way more appropriate. There's a lot of variation just for the bodybuilder type : some of them actually look good and natural (although quite big), while others can be monstrous beasts. Athletic can also imply a lot of things. What kind of athlete are we talking about? A 110 lbs marathon runner? A swimmer? A power-lifter?

As I've said, and I don't mean to offend, my opinion is that this poll is strongly biased from the start. These terms all evoke different images in our individual minds, so the final results are going to be subject to a lot of interpretation. Anyways, I sometimes participate in bodybuilding forums and this question has been raised waaay often, that is, what women in general consider the best looking physique for males. In these forums, a lot of people contributed with serious studies and the consensus is pretty much this :

This actually pisses off the veteran bodybuilders in the forums, as these males are not very muscular. These show decent muscle mass, with an average of 10% bodyfat. That's what is considered the most generally attractive, as considered by serious studies.

I don't think it's that serious. I'm sure anyone venturing into this thread will know what the OP is getting at, and they will interpret and answer as such and provide their whats and whys. It obviously means different things to different people, but I think the OP is trying to understand what females find attractive in men when it comes to just the physical. I don't really think the technicalities of it matter all that much. My 2 cents

EDIT: I think the Fat as Fatass in the above image is a bit crude. But that's just my opinion. dontknow

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3 Aug 2013

Quote by slipperywhenwet2012

I don't think it's that serious. I'm sure anyone venturing into this thread will know what the OP is getting at, and they will interpret and answer as such and provide their whats and whys. It obviously means different things to different people, but I think the OP is trying to understand what females find attractive in men when it comes to just the physical. I don't really think the technicalities of it matter all that much.

Well, now he has it all offered to him on a golden plate. I too was looking for this information at some point in my life, and would have been pleased that someone provided me such feedback.

People can still vote in his poll for the fun aspect of it, just to figure out what term evokes the most physical attractiveness in women...

3 Aug 2013

From the list on the poll I'd say an athletic body or good looks would be more likely to catch my eye if I haven't met the man before. Eye contact, the way he carries himself, talks, smiles etc all leave more of a lasting impression for me, though.

Quote by Dancing_Doll
Actually I consider a 'muscular' vs 'athletic' body (because he cited them as separate choices) to mainly mean bodybuilder/bulked up guy vs lean muscle but toned/fit/athletic guy. They both have muscle mass but when I think of an athletic body type, I don't think of a roided up beefy muscular guy. I think of lean muscle mass - like a swimmer's body - healthy but natural.

That's the way I see it, too.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy

I sometimes participate in bodybuilding forums and this question has been raised waaay often, that is, what women in general consider the best looking physique for males. In these forums, a lot of people contributed with serious studies and the consensus is pretty much this :

This actually pisses off the veteran bodybuilders in the forums, as these males are not very muscular. These show decent muscle mass, with an average of 10% bodyfat. That's what is considered the most generally attractive, as considered by studies.

Yep, the studies are correct.

I think one of the factors is that the bodybuilder is perceived as a guy who just sits in the gym, lifting weights, bulking up, and possibly doing unnatural things like cycling with roids in order to sculpt his body into looking a certain way. The athletic-body guy is perceived as more attractive because his body came by way of doing something else that he's passionate about (sports, training, martial arts etc) and the training gave him lean muscle - but just looking muscular wasn't the end-goal. They are seen as more cardio-fit and athletic than the bodybuilder. I'm not saying that bodybuilders can't be athletic - but it's just the perception - the sport vs the body-vanity - it's a different focus and motivation.

The big bodybuilders that walk with their arms swinging wide because they're so bulked up and the male athletes that are built like tanks like your Brock Lesnar and Alistair Overeem types really never tend to be popular on the hottest athlete or male bodies lists. It will always consistently be the leaner muscle guys that are muscular and fit but still look natural.

3 Aug 2013

I must admit, the dudes who have arms so roided up or so bulked up look disgusting. Not that I look are men that way being straight and all, but the muscle-headed freaks look unnatural. It's really weird to see my fellow bro walking around and they can't even keep their arms at their sides even if they tried. They swing out. Like an ape.

I don't know if women care one way or another, but I actually prefer being stronger than I look. It'll come as a surprise. And plus, should I ever need to escape death and the only way out is through a tiny arse hole, yea...I'd prefer my slimmer body.

Plus, my knees are totally shot. Just absolutely shot. I mean I've had so many injuries to my right knee, there's hardly any cartilage left. Makes building muscle in my eyes difficult. That spreads to other places. Since my knees are naturally weak, I'm guessing that's why it is even more difficult to add bulk to my upper half. You could literally tip me over easy because of my knees. It blows.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by MadMartigan
I must admit, the dudes who have arms so roided up or so bulked up look disgusting. Not that I look are men that way being straight and all, but the muscle-headed freaks look unnatural. It's really weird to see my fellow bro walking around and they can't even keep their arms at their sides even if they tried. They swing out. Like an ape.

I don't know if women care one way or another, but I actually prefer being stronger than I look. It'll come as a surprise. And plus, should I ever need to escape death and the only way out is through a tiny arse hole, yea...I'd prefer my slimmer body.

Plus, my knees are totally shot. Just absolutely shot. I mean I've had so many injuries to my right knee, there's hardly any cartilage left. Makes building muscle in my eyes difficult. That spreads to other places. Since my knees are naturally weak, I'm guessing that's why it is even more difficult to add bulk to my upper half. You could literally tip me over easy because of my knees. It blows.

Literally.

Haha...sorry. I couldn't pass that one up. evil4

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3 Aug 2013

I chose Athletic. But based on the posted chart, anywhere from Toned to Athletic would be ideal. But this is just based on appearance, so many other factors.

BTW, If anyone cares I like women who would be from Skinny to Chubby!! LOL

3 Aug 2013

Quote by Dancing_Doll

Yep, the studies are correct.

I think one of the factors is that the bodybuilder is perceived as a guy who just sits in the gym, lifting weights, bulking up, and possibly doing unnatural things like cycling with roids in order to sculpt his body into looking a certain way. The athletic-body guy is perceived as more attractive because his body came by way of doing something else that he's passionate about (sports, training, martial arts etc) and the training gave him lean muscle - but just looking muscular wasn't the end-goal. They are seen as more cardio-fit and athletic than the bodybuilder. I'm not saying that bodybuilders can't be athletic - but it's just the perception - the sport vs the body-vanity - it's a different focus and motivation.

The big bodybuilders that walk with their arms swinging wide because they're so bulked up and the male athletes that are built like tanks like your Brock Lesnar and Alistair Overeem types really never tend to be popular on the hottest athlete or male bodies lists. It will always consistently be the leaner muscle guys that are muscular and fit but still look natural.

I'm a bit confused regarding how I should answer you, as I feel there's a bit of misconceptions in what you say. Don't feel bad about it, because a lot of people share these.

The 2 pictures I posted that represented the best looking males are not achieved by simply doing a common sport or simply eating healthy ; they really are achieved by a lot of the other things you mentionned such as having a very strict bodybuilding plan and a very strict diet. Someone who eats healthy and practices different physical activities that are not specifically targeted at muscle gains (bodybuilding), might look more like this, at best :

Still far from bad, but that man doesn't show that defining edge that would make him one of the best looking males. Myself, if I was simply doing a random sport and eating approximatively, I wouldn't look that good. Genetically I tend to be more skinny-fat, meaning I easily gain fat and don't gain muscles as fast as some other men. I'm not extremely in a bad situation, just not that advantaged either.

Most people think that guys who spend many days per week lifting heavy weights end up looking like this rapidly :

That is a total misconception. The guy above is an advanced bodybuilder, and uses steroids. That physique, if achieved naturally, might take over 10-12 years of intense, steady, strict bodybuilding to obtain, and might only be possible with an excellent genetic base. This guy could go overboard and achieve a beastly physique that is more often attributed to one of a typical bodybuilder, but simply prefers to maintain these aesthetics to deliver a more 'natural' appearance. It still takes him a crazy amount of devotion each day.

The 2 best looking males I showed previously still show a huge amount of devotion, although they do not need to use steroids. Still, some models use a bit of steroids and growth hormones, because they're lazy and because there's a hard competition within the industry they work for. This is the kind of body I personally try to achieve, and here's an approximation of what I do each day/week.

- Very intense weight lifting 5x/week, around 1h30 each (each of these are carefully planned and I never miss one)
- Precise calories and macro-nutriments counting, with fluctuations throughout the year to promote muscle gains/fat loss (bulk/cut)
- Keen observation of muscle growth and fat gains/loss, and planned strategies to adjust (changing workout, adding calories, etc)

As you might as well figured out, putting all these strategies into place also requires a good amount of prior knowledge. I have been doing this for around 4-5 years getting more and more competent at it (knowledge wise), and I'm still far from displaying an overly muscular physique. I don't use steroids or any other crap either. Not that far from my objective, but there's still a lot of hard work ahead. There's only a defined amount of muscles that's possible to gain naturally per month (around 1lb for me), and I simply couldn't be gaining muscles faster. Training more than I do now would be counterproductive. Every guy that simply wants a physique that just stands out a little must go through this. There's really no way around it.

Although you might read this and think it must be a real headache or chore to practice, it's actually a lot of fun for me. All the knowledge I acquired in regards to nutrition and fitness passionates me, plus they provide great health benefits. I'm also a guy who enjoys some form of routine in his life, and lifting weights motivates me to be productive and maintain some form of clear/steady outlook on my whole day. As for calories counting and overall nutrition, I'm getting so efficient at it, it simply is second nature. You might find this wicked, but I can look in about any plate of food and give an almost exact approximate of what it contains : calories, proteins, carbs, etc.

To quote you :

The athletic-body guy is perceived as more attractive because his body came by way of doing something else that he's passionate about (sports, training, martial arts etc) and the training gave him lean muscle - but just looking muscular wasn't the end-goal.

I can totally relate to the part where you say the physique I have is the result of what passionates me. Only achieving such a physique is not just about choosing a random sport, eating well and waking up one morning suddenly looking like a model. I know it might sound surprising, but although they might be close in size, there are tons of efforts that separate an average man to the ones I showed in the pictures.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt the need to expose this misconception.

So girls, do you still crave for the athletic body, now that you know what efforts are required to achieve it?

PS:
All the photos I've shown where also taken under these circumstances : muscles pumped prior photo-shoot to stimulate muscle size, perfect lighting to improve muscular definition, perfect pose, Photoshop editing to improve definition furthermore and remove any apparent flaw.

Don't expect to meet a random guy, remove his shirt, and hope he'll look like this. You might have to remove quite a lot of shirts to reveal such a physique...

3 Aug 2013

Or your name is Christian Bale or Hugh Jackman. Friggen genetic freaks who can go from super skinny to super bloody ripped in a short time frame.

Granted, they have millions at their disposal and the best of the best trainers and chefs to cook for them, but still.

Crazy genetic anomalies without roids.

I must add, I think most of the ab shots in movies and photography are simply tricks of the lights/shadows etc. Hardly anyone truly has abs that look like that.

I must say though...had I not gotten injured at an early age and been able to stick with soccer, I think my body would have ended up the better for it. I definitely would still have the peak cardio level I had as a kid and most likely would have been able to keep a stronger core and stronger knees.

At any rate. Yes. Getting those types of beach bodies/athletic bodies takes times/dedication (tons of both) and quite frankly, quite a bit of money. Your average man may only have one, if any of the above.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by MadMartigan
Or your name is Christian Bale or Hugh Jackman. Friggen genetic freaks who can go from super skinny to super bloody ripped in a short time frame.

I'm glad you mention these actors, as they all take steroids too. Here's a picture of Christian Bale showing how he looked during the filming of the movie The Machinist and how he appeared in Batman Begins. Only 1 year separates these two photos :

Considering I literally busted my ass for 4 years to achieve the physique in my avatar, do you really think Christian Bale could have gained that much muscle in only 1 year, without steroids?

Think again.

As I've said I participate in bodybuilding forums, and everyone there will tell you that the use of steroids is quite common, even for light weight actors and models.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by MadMartigan

I must add, I think most of the ab shots in movies and photography are simply tricks of the lights/shadows etc. Hardly anyone truly has abs that look like that.

You speak wisely, my friend.

Notice anything strange? How their definitions are painted? Plus they used all the best lighting during filming and editing.

Actually abs definition is still possible, but it's a lot of hard work to achieve. Look at my avatar : I'm not bad myself, but far from perfect.

3 Aug 2013

Read all the body building forums you want.

Do those blokes have the resources A-list actors do?

I mean..Literally. They have access to foods and training day in and day out that you do not. Equipment you do not. I'm not one to use absolutes for people and say they all use steroids.

But, yea.

HGH? Yea...that's a possibility. Medically sanctioned use with doctors all over them testing them constantly I'd imagine as well for these roles.

Again, you bring up what took your 4 years to achieve. Again, not making light of yours gains. The people referenced, however, have all the time and money in the world pretty much to achieve these looks. I'll go out on a limb and say, like me, you don't.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by SereneProdigy

I can totally relate to the part where you say the physique I have is the result of what passionates me. Only achieving such a physique is not just about choosing a random sport, eating well and waking up one morning suddenly looking like a model. I know it might sound surprising, but although they might be close in size, there are tons of efforts that separate an average man to the ones I showed in the pictures.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt the need to expose this misconception.

So girls, do you still crave for the athletic body, now that you know what efforts are required to achieve it?

I didn't say it was correct - I talked about perceptions - that is what a lot of people perceive when they compare a guy with an athletic build and a bodybuilder. That the bodybuilder is more fuelled by vanity and has taken it to a potentially unhealthy level. That's a perception that many people have (right or wrong). It doesn't mean that it's reality for all bodybuilders, nor does it mean that the athletic lean-muscled guy is just kicking a ball around and wakes up one morning with shredded abs. Any pro athlete spends an insane amount of time in the gym - a lot of it is training (strength training, cardio, lifting etc) because it benefits whatever they're involved in. I know what's involved as far as efforts go. Both require a tremendous amount of dedication and work. But one might be seen as 'training' (in the gym) for a goal other than greasing up and standing around on a stage and flexing for judges.

The average guy or girl who is into fitness rather than a sport and wants that low bodyfat, shredded physique is going to follow a similar regimen - and really they can take it as far as they want. The typical body-conscious guy with an athletic build spends about 5+ days at the gym, does the protein powders and is particular about his diet. That's really not out of the norm among the fit guys under 40 that I know. I also have tons of friends who have cycled with roids (or are still cycling) to fast track to get the body they want. But I hope they're doing it for themselves rather than thinking that's what's always attractive to women. You mentioned that bodybuilders were annoyed that those studies show that women aren't into the thinking that the bigger the muscles, the hotter the guy. I'm suggesting that the perceptions of extreme bodybuilders might have something to do with that. There is a natural limit where the human body starts to look 'off' to a lot of people.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by MadMartigan
I must admit, the dudes who have arms so roided up or so bulked up look disgusting. Not that I look are men that way being straight and all, but the muscle-headed freaks look unnatural. It's really weird to see my fellow bro walking around and they can't even keep their arms at their sides even if they tried. They swing out. Like an ape.

LOL... I used to party with a few bodybuilder types and this one time when we were at this afterhours club, this dude walked in and he was literally the most massive meathead I'd ever seen - like jaw-dropping. At one point I was dancing and it was really dark and I saw him sit down on this low stool thing - except he had to kind of squat down onto it like he was sitting on an egg because he was too big to sit like a normal guy. Maybe it was because I was kinda high at the time, but all I could think of was 'Gorillas in the Mist'. He just looked so unnatural and ape-like - even for a bulky guy.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by Dancing_Doll

LOL... I used to party with a few bodybuilder types and this one time when we were at this afterhours club, this dude walked in and he was literally the most massive meathead I'd ever seen - like jaw-dropping. At one point I was dancing and it was really dark and I saw him sit down on this low stool thing - except he had to kind of squat down onto it like he was sitting on an egg because he was too big to sit like a normal guy. Maybe it was because I was kinda high at the time, but all I could think of was 'Gorillas in the Mist'. He just looked so unnatural and ape-like - even for a bulky guy.

I think I'd absolutely lose it if I saw that in person. There's this guy I always see at the gym I work out at. Sounds like that exactly. He uses a mouth guard and lets his mouth hang open, while his arms are pumped out at the sides. Watching him walk around is hilarious.

The only thing better was this black guy, also a meat head, who'd scream like a little girl to himself every time he did the bench press. Oh man. I just don't think the human body was meant to carry that much mass. I mean, our bones are strong, but whether it is muscle or fat, I don't think we are together to carry that much mass. It's why heavy baseball players, even ones that aren't fat, just heavily muscled, have their lower bodies and really, their bodies in general, break down as they age. Toting that much weight just isn't heavily imo.

I guess I find it weird as well. I was pretty much born into a sprinters style body. Lean and built for speed like a gazelle. Even as tall as I am, I can get to top speed in a hurry (or could/can if my knees allow it). I prefer my body type. If I had to choose and magically make changes, I'd cut the slight fat from my abs, and redistribute my weight around my body to around 165ish or so on my 6 flat frame.

At the same time, however, I've been with girls that don't like hulking muscle bound guys. They prefer slimmer toned/fit guys.

3 Aug 2013

Quote by Dancing_Doll

I didn't say it was correct - I talked about perceptions - that is what a lot of people perceive when they compare a guy with an athletic build and a bodybuilder. That the bodybuilder is more fuelled by vanity and has taken it to a potentially unhealthy level. That's a perception that many people have (right or wrong). It doesn't mean that it's reality for all bodybuilders, nor does it mean that the athletic lean-muscled guy is just kicking a ball around and wakes up one morning with shredded abs. Any pro athlete spends an insane amount of time in the gym - a lot of it is training (strength training, cardio, lifting etc) because it benefits whatever they're involved in. I know what's involved as far as efforts go. Both require a tremendous amount of dedication and work. But one might be seen as 'training' (in the gym) for a goal other than greasing up and standing around on a stage and flexing for judges.

The average guy or girl who is into fitness rather than a sport and wants that low bodyfat, shredded physique is going to follow a similar regimen - and really they can take it as far as they want. The typical body-conscious guy with an athletic build spends about 5+ days at the gym, does the protein powders and is particular about his diet. That's really not out of the norm among the fit guys under 40 that I know. I also have tons of friends who have cycled with roids (or are still cycling) to fast track to get the body they want. But I hope they're doing it for themselves rather than thinking that's what's always attractive to women. You mentioned that bodybuilders were annoyed that those studies show that women aren't into the thinking that the bigger the muscles, the hotter the guy. I'm suggesting that the perceptions of extreme bodybuilders might have something to do with that. There is a natural limit where the human body starts to look 'off' to a lot of people.

Yes, I understand what you mean. Only from your previous post, it seemed like you were having a misconception about what is necessary to achieve such a so called perfect physique, and felt the need to clarify. Maybe you already knew that, but I wrote this for everyone really, as this misconception is quite frequent. Actually, this is why most people have this perception that you talk about. I experienced it quite a lot in my personal life.

I've dated girls who craved my physique when we first met, but suddenly were annoyed that it required such a high level of dedication when they became part of my intimate life. It seems to me that a lot of girls think physiques like I showed are simply achieved by playing baseball with friends on sunday, and running for half an hour 2 days a week. Maybe you already knew this was not the case, but a lot of girls don't. And I think that vision is twisted. Some girls I've been with were almost requesting that I quit all my routines while hoping I might maintain a gorgeous body, which is simply impossible and plain ridiculous. The superficial notion that a nice body could be so easily maintained was so deeply planted in their minds that they would argue about it, trying to make me reconsider my knowledge in fitness.

As you explained, many girls look at a physique like mine, think it's acquired mostly by healthy habits, and as such find it both sexy and practical, but this is actually what disturbs me. As I've said, having a physique that stands out actually requires at least a bit of 'wickedness' that most people wouldn't really be able to relate to. And it also requires some form of vanity, really. I don't look in the mirror all day admiring myself, but keeping a nice physique forces me to be aware of how it looks, observe when it changes, measure my progress, etc. So yes, being a bit self-centered is part of achieving a decent physique. I actually think possessing a bit of vanity for humans is a good thing, but that might be too long to explain. The goal is not to step up on a stage, but an aesthetics goal has to be there somehow to produce results. For me, I don't feel like it's a disturbed passion at all, because it just happens that aesthetics and both mental and physical health benefit from it. The thing is, aesthetics have to be the main goal and healthy benefits follow, not the other way around. Still, I personally enjoy doing all of it.

Overall what bugs me is that fitness goals are totally distorted and misunderstood amongst the general population, mainly by this fantasy that having a perfect body is a simple thing to achieve. Medias like to present that illusion, because it's appealing to people to know they could have the best of two worlds : a hot body without dedication. When I present myself to a new girl and she glances at my body, I'd like her to understand that dedicating several hours of my time per week to my body is part of the deal I'm offering if we're about to get in a serious mid/long-term relationship. Even if I openly state that I lift weights actively before we can 'conclude' anything, I always feel like they don't really take this seriously, as they're still carrying that 'easily-achieved' image promoted by the medias. This is what provoked my reaction when you said that the pictures I presented reflected the image of a guy that cares about his health more than anything, doesn't pursue aesthetics meticulosity, and isn't much self-centered, because this is a misbelief, shared by many. I'd like it to be clear that it implies some level of dedication, mild obsessiveness, and vanity, because really, that's what it is. If girls prefer a guy that isn't that "obsessed" about his fitness level, that's fine with me, but they might have to look elsewhere and accept the fact they're not gonna have a guy that has my type of body.

For me getting in shape helped a lot with different aspects of my life. There's so many benefits, I feel it will be too long to name them. You certainly can relate to quite a few if you also keep yourself in good form. Acquiring a perfect appearance is just there to maintain the idea of an ever lasting goal, which I simply enjoy. I surely don't do it to impress people or to sleep with girls, as I really don't think such a level of perfection is necessary anyway. Girls can only admire my whole body when we're naked, so not being overly fat or out of shape would probably have the same results in the end. I'm not sure why exactly my objectives are geared toward looking good, but I simply love it. Maybe it just makes me feel like a better male, and raises my confidence.

Also a lot of athletes won't achieve a physique like I showed in the pictures because like I explained, aesthetics is not their primary goal. They're still gonna be in an awesome shape and have a good appearance, but are not gonna look like models, unless they really have great genetics. Guys like David Beckham have awesome genetics, but they're a minority. Look at a lot of hockey/baseball players without their shirt, and althought they look decent, they don't look like models at all. Their bodyfat levels are way too high for most of them to have an awesome body. Still, they have the perfect body for their sport.

I can surely agree that a lot of bodybuilders go too far in their sport. This could be long to explain, but I feel that pursuing such exaggerated and dangerous goals is a way to overcome some form of insecurity they might have.

Well, it surely took a lot of words to express my thoughts, once again. Sorry about that...

All in all, my criticism was directed at another aspect of reality that's distorted by the ever misleading medias. I felt no offense from you at all, no worries.

3 Aug 2013

4 Aug 2013

Friendly reminder to keep things on topic: This is a forum about women's preferences when it comes to the male physique. Not muscle flexing. Pun intended.

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