I met a girl at the Modern Jive classes I take, and I was seeing her for around 2 months. We we're in the intermediate phase of 'past the first few dates', but also 'not in a relationship just yet'. Call it friends with benefits, taking it easy and seeing how it goes, or just having fun, but things we're going well (at least I thought), and I did like her.
We slept together on the first date, saw each other once a week for drinks, movie and sex, and I usually contacted her a couple of times a week for a chat, mainly texting.
It's paramount for a man (at least I thought), that you appear non-needy as possible, to display confidence, so I tried not to bombard her with text messages and limited it to convos just once or twice per week. Because we were just datings or as I put it "Seeing each other", but not in a full on relationship (which I think would be far too quick after just 2 months), I thought that by not texting all the time, I was displaying a person who was not needy and desperate for attention, and instead a confident person who didn't require a girls interest in order to get on in life.
In essence, by not texting her all the time, I've played it TOO 'cool', and the reverse effect has happen, I haven't attracted her, I've inadvertantely shunned her.
I've had problems recently, I lost my job and I've been busy dealing with stuff, and she's also been busy doing dance auditons, but she said this is no excuse for not to be in touch very regularly.
After a chat with her tonight, she's said we're not seeing each other any more, because she got the impression that I wasn't interested enough, and therefore she stopped being interested in me. She made a comment that when she is dating somebody, she requires contact from them at least once a day, otherwise she would feel as if it was an active display of somebody not interested.
So because I've tried to play it cool and not smother her, I've accidently given the opposite impression, made her feel as if she wasn't worth chasing, and that I don't desire her enough. She's made me feel like a bit of a pig, even though I genuinely think I am a good person.
I need to learn from this. I don't want to make the same mistake again. I always thought as a guy, you have to be careful about seeking too much contact for the girl, otherwise you're showing needyness and insecurity. I thought texting every day, is too much for a girl you're only dating. I actually cared about this girl, but i've been so frightening about scaring her away, because I've heard that texting too much can be a turn off, that I've been way to stand-off, and she felt unwanted.
I've asked if I can fix it, but she said she's already moved on. She never texts me first, and says that as a man, it's my job to chase her and not the other way around, i felt that was a bit of a double standard.
So please tell me, when you're dating a guy, should he be texting/phoning/emailing every day? Is once or twice per week not enough? Or does it depend on the girl and she is the needy one? What can I do to ensure that this never happens again.
There isn't a single, universal answer for this question. Every woman is different and will have different expectations of communication with the person they're dating.
My boyfriend knows better than to not text/call everyday. I'd kill him.
there isnt a single universal answer as everyone is different and has different expectations however i think most of us will agree with as often as possible.. it could be a simple text/email/phone call.. some times simply receiving a text saying "hey Babe, miss you" lets your partner feel wanted.
As everyone else has said, there is no single answer. For me, when I first meet someone it is very exciting to get frequent texts, you know they are into you as much as you are into them. I find this settles down after a couple of weeks and it is nice to get random messages or phone calls to say they are thinking of you, but without being too persistent are feeling claustrophobic. It can be a fine line and you need to go with your instinct. If that isn't what she/he wants then perhaps it's not meant to be between the two of you. It shouldn't be a game!
Quote by Mekhala There isn't a single, universal answer for this question. Every woman is different and will have different expectations of communication with the person they're dating.
My boyfriend knows better than to not text/call everyday. I'd kill him.
I would have to echo all the advice given so far. But let me make a suggestion. The next time you find yourself attracted to a woman beyond a friendship and the "friends with benefits" stage, talk with her about your intentions. Once you express that you want more than a basic relationship, then ask the woman what she likes. Try this:
"Babe, I have a question for you. Would you find me to be a pest if I sent you text messages frequently or if called you once or twice a day?"
Let the woman tell you what she likes. Communicate...verbally. Don't play games by assuming. You want to win, not lose.
Thanks for the feedback ladies, I can see that in highsight I was probably too distant, I didn't see the need to keep contacting her on the basis that she was expecting. Pahaps the answer is, I was attracted to her, but not quite attracted enough. I find that if another person wants it to get more serioius, the instinct can sometimes be for me to worry that we're getting too deep too soon. Let's be honest, I have a slight fear of showing major commitment, when I can't decide if the girl is just a temporary thing, or if I see a real future. Maybe to some extent, I've answered my own question. The truth is, I didn't see a huge future for us, so maybe just being happy with how things were going, isn't enough.
I wonder how many other people have to wrestle with their fears of commitment, or sometimes wonder how attracted they truly are to the girl. I think if you truly like somebody, these questions never come into it. Pahaps moving on, makes perfect sense.
Quote by Archadia Thanks for the feedback ladies, I can see that in highsight I was probably too distant, I didn't see the need to keep contacting her on the basis that she was expecting. Pahaps the answer is, I was attracted to her, but not quite attracted enough. I find that if another person wants it to get more serioius, the instinct can sometimes be for me to worry that we're getting too deep too soon. Let's be honest, I have a slight fear of showing major commitment, when I can't decide if the girl is just a temporary thing, or if I see a real future. Maybe to some extent, I've answered my own question. The truth is, I didn't see a huge future for us, so maybe just being happy with how things were going, isn't enough.
I wonder how many other people have to wrestle with their fears of commitment, or sometimes wonder how attracted they truly are to the girl. I think if you truly like somebody, these questions never come into it. Pahaps moving on, makes perfect sense.
Personally, I think is just fear that is in us, is limiting us in pretty much everything. Now, if we manage to put control onto it or get to know our fears, we can live with them happier life.
What, I think, you made one mistake in this growing relationship (that ended too soon) is that you were pretending to be someone else. I really don't know how to sugar coat people, so I hope you won't mind me saying that.
As you said in your first post, you were trying to play it by some social standards, trying to do it right, as we tend to do when we are nervous or in dilemma what to do, but usually those games are not really working, not in adult life anyway. Even if you would be successful with the girl you were dating, the question still remains, if you would be happy with her, knowing that you were pretending (to one extend that is) that you were someone else. In my experience it is always a hassle, or he shows who he really is and she gets annoyed and upset being tricked or he try to stay the 'perfect' guy for her, unhappy because that is not who he is.
Good luck
I think you'd have been better concentrating more on how you felt, rather than how you thought you ought to behave. In essence, you weren't being true to yourself and in my opinion, that always shines through.
What is the point in being something you're not?
I mean, you can try and try to be what you perceive someone wants, but then are you actually going to be happy? All you have is a facade.
From what you said, it doesn't sound like the two of you established any sort of boundaries or ground rules and I honestly think that would have been helpful, not just for you, but for her too. That doesn't mean that you should have sat down after your second date and worked out a plan or rota, but you should have at least checked in, I think.
It's one thing to be casual in a relationship, but to be casual just because that's what you think is expected of you isn't right.
Personally, if I am dating someone, I'd prefer it if they checked in here and there - a wee text, email, call... I have no problem saying if it's too much, but if it's too little, then I find that harder to verbalise and I'm more inclined to simply assume that they just aren't interested.
I think that miscommunication is the main reason that most relationships fail. I'd rather just be myself now and find out sooner that it is or isn't going to work.
Hi John She didn't think you were interested in her enough so she 'stopped being interested in you'? Sounds like the excuse you give when you're not giving an excuse. If it were me, I would have tried to talk to you before I just broke it off with you. Why did she sit back and say nothing? It's ok for her to say she expects some type of contact every day NOW. I don't know why she wouldn't try to talk to you about it before? It's just the way I think, but if you want my honest opinion, I suspect she MAY have been looking for a reason to break it off but didn't want to tell you the real reason. The excuse she gave you just sounds petty to me.
Trinkeeeet, where the hell have you been You're reasoning is perfectly feasible, I'm not sure we were that attracted to each other in the first place. Her excuse was that it's not her job to chase me, and that it should be the other way around. Now, I'm not a fan of double standards, as you probably know, but I didn't chase her very much at all, not even enough for her to meet me half way. I think it's my own doing, and the more I think, it's definately for the best. I wanted to disuss it because if I do meet somebody else that I like, I need to make sure I find the right medium between keeping contact and connection, but giving freedom and space.
Trinkeeeet, where the hell have you been You're reasoning is perfectly feasible, I'm not sure we were that attracted to each other in the first place. Her excuse was that it's not her job to chase me, and that it should be the other way around. Now, I'm not a fan of double standards, as you probably know, but I didn't chase her very much at all, not even enough for her to meet me half way. I think it's my own doing, and the more I think, it's definately for the best. I wanted to disuss it because if I do meet somebody else that I like, I need to make sure I find the right medium between keeping contact and connection, but giving freedom and space.
I think the best thing you can do is just be yourself and act the way that feels right to you at the time - finding the balance can be tough though, because it is our natural inclination to want to be liked, so sometimes we behave in a way that isn't exactly how we would naturally be - fear of being hurt, being the first to make a move or say what we feel, fear of rejection and that sort of thing.
At the end of the day though, you're either compatible or you aren't and while one will tend to make more of an effort to 'fit in' with a prospective partner (it's only polite isn't it?), especially in the initial stages of a relationship, once you (anyone) can let go of a hoped for outcome, it frees us up to just be comfortable in our own skin and that sort of confidence and acceptance really shines through and makes a person much more attractive, doesn't it?
Quote by SandyJ If this is important for you to know as a dating criteria. I, for one, would not be dating you.
I didn't offer.
@ Mazza
I think theres a number of things I need to bear in mind in order for me to objective. Everybody is different, and has different expectations, certain girls may not require frequent contact in order for them to remain interested, or indeed for them to feel as if you're interested in them. It sounds vain, but particularly confident girls who feel comfortable with themselves, don't spend too much time worrying when their guy doesn't contact, in fact, they probably quite enjoy the space. Other girls may need more attention, to stay engaged and to keep the attraction levels pumping.
There was on American girl I dated, where I didn't necessarly keep in touch that often, but every time we met up we had a great and special time together, and she was so damn confident, which i what I really liked, she was always busy doing her own thing, and not needy whatsoever, I felt really relaxed because I didn't feel like I had to check in, she was just cool.
But conversely I've dated girls where they text message, and if you don't reply in 20 minutes they send another message. To me this displays insecurity, but at the same time, you can be reassured because you know they are interested in you. It's difficult to find an exact answer to the question.
I think judging the type of girl you are dating, pahaps comes with experience rather than assumption or actual guildlines.
When dating a girl, I was definately more eager in the past, and since learned to more stand off, but it looks like in this case I've gone from one extreme to the other.
Often men have a problem with dating, they create set rules that aren't particularly necessary, when men think they are. I have a friend that always waits 20 minutes before replying to a text message, and only puts an 'x' at the end of message, if the girls has put one first.
I think when it comes to dating, men can tend to overthink, rather than just be natural. We humans are a strange breed ;)
Quote by Archadia Thanks for the feedback ladies, I can see that in highsight I was probably too distant, I didn't see the need to keep contacting her on the basis that she was expecting. Pahaps the answer is, I was attracted to her, but not quite attracted enough. I find that if another person wants it to get more serioius, the instinct can sometimes be for me to worry that we're getting too deep too soon. Let's be honest, I have a slight fear of showing major commitment, when I can't decide if the girl is just a temporary thing, or if I see a real future. Maybe to some extent, I've answered my own question. The truth is, I didn't see a huge future for us, so maybe just being happy with how things were going, isn't enough.
I wonder how many other people have to wrestle with their fears of commitment, or sometimes wonder how attracted they truly are to the girl. I think if you truly like somebody, these questions never come into it. Pahaps moving on, makes perfect sense.
HEY!!!! r u for real John? u say u cared for this girl? sooo have u turned that off?
if the answer is NO! then take all that stuff u wrote in yr original post.. minus the last paragraph .. and send it to HER!
then follow it up... but don't be verbose in yr follow ups .. just simple messages .. "thinking of u" or "wondering what u r doing right now?" ..
do u actually believe she has moved on?? sounds as if u two had quite a connection..
of course I am just a hopeless romantic.. but maybe she wants to see if u really care???????? omg we r complex creatures...
and sweet sweet john.. u sooo need to pay attention to ROMANCE... we may SAY we hate u contacting us all the time.. but if we do we will TELL u so... and with a ...
and as for all this baloney ... "truth is, I didn't see a huge future for us, so maybe just being happy with how things were going, isn't enough" ... what is this all about??..
do u care? and what's with "MAYBE"? ... u cared enough to bring yr pain .. yr loss ...here..
if u don't try and get her back.. well u will never really know will u????
Quote by SandyJ If this is important for you to know as a dating criteria. I, for one, would not be dating you.
I read John's answer Sandy ... he missed the depth of yr perception... man thing I suppose ? ..
sad... because u actually gave him his answer and solution
I think I sort of fall into the same line of thinking as Mazza. How often did you want to talk to her? That's what you should have been asking yourself. There is so much game playing and counter measures in dating. It's stressful and confusing. It also leads to a lack of communication. Do you. If you want her to want you for who and what you are then "Do You". Wouldn't it have been nice if you had just called her because you were thinking about her and said exactly that? If she reacted negatively, then there is your answer. She just is not that in to you. But, to deny your natural urges only hurts you in the end. Eventually you are going to be you and if that is irritating to her then why not get it out of the way early.
Isn't it wonderful to just be with someone and just be yourself? Those are the type of relationships that last. I do understand that it takes a certain amount of confidence, but it saves so much time. If you still have an urge to talk to her, do it. Explain yourself if it is worth it to you.
Quote by avrgblkgrl I think I sort of fall into the same line of thinking as Mazza. How often did you want to talk to her? That's what you should have been asking yourself. There is so much game playing and counter measures in dating. It's stressful and confusing. It also leads to a lack of communication. Do you. If you want her to want you for who and what you are then "Do You". Wouldn't it have been nice if you had just called her because you were thinking about her and said exactly that? If she reacted negatively, then there is your answer. She just is not that in to you. But, to deny your natural urges only hurts you in the end. Eventually you are going to be you and if that is irritating to her then why not get it out of the way early.
Isn't it wonderful to just be with someone and just be yourself? Those are the type of relationships that last. I do understand that it takes a certain amount of confidence, but it saves so much time. If you still have an urge to talk to her, do it. Explain yourself if it is worth it to you.
Quote by avrgblkgrl I think I sort of fall into the same line of thinking as Mazza. How often did you want to talk to her? That's what you should have been asking yourself. There is so much game playing and counter measures in dating. It's stressful and confusing. It also leads to a lack of communication. Do you. If you want her to want you for who and what you are then "Do You". Wouldn't it have been nice if you had just called her because you were thinking about her and said exactly that? If she reacted negatively, then there is your answer. She just is not that in to you. But, to deny your natural urges only hurts you in the end. Eventually you are going to be you and if that is irritating to her then why not get it out of the way early.
Isn't it wonderful to just be with someone and just be yourself? Those are the type of relationships that last. I do understand that it takes a certain amount of confidence, but it saves so much time. If you still have an urge to talk to her, do it. Explain yourself if it is worth it to you.
Quote by hayley HEY!!!! r u for real John? u say u cared for this girl? sooo have u turned that off?
if the answer is NO! then take all that stuff u wrote in yr original post.. minus the last paragraph .. and send it to HER!
then follow it up... but don't be verbose in yr follow ups .. just simple messages .. "thinking of u" or "wondering what u r doing right now?" ..
do u actually believe she has moved on?? sounds as if u two had quite a connection..
of course I am just a hopeless romantic.. but maybe she wants to see if u really care???????? omg we r complex creatures...
and sweet sweet john.. u sooo need to pay attention to ROMANCE... we may SAY we hate u contacting us all the time.. but if we do we will TELL u so... and with a ...
and as for all this baloney ... "truth is, I didn't see a huge future for us, so maybe just being happy with how things were going, isn't enough" ... what is this all about??..
do u care? and what's with "MAYBE"? ... u cared enough to bring yr pain .. yr loss ...here..
if u don't try and get her back.. well u will never really know will u????
These are two amazing answers, they put the whole thing in prespective. It's difficult to say how I feel, without either sounding like a chauvenistic pig or a player, two charicterists that as a gentleman, I never try to emulate. The more I think about it, the more it makes total sense that we are not together. When I got with her, my intial instinct was thinking that there isn't so much attraction involved, that this didn't have a realistic future, it was more like "this will be fun, for a while."
By that statement, I can immediate see some critics looking at me and thinking "so basically you were just using her for sex, or for your own validation". No, I think it was a medium ground. Attracted enough to want to see the girl, and have some fun together, not attracted enough to believe it was going to lead to a real long term relationship.
We live in a society that likes to make clear cut judgements; right and wrong, good and bad. But I don't believe the real universe works like that. The case not either 'in a relationship' or 'single', there is a grey areas involved that many people don't mention, which in the 21st century people should be mentioning. Call that grey area "fuck buddies", "Friends with benefits", "Open Relationship", "Dating", whatever you like. I think in many cases people get together, purely to chance if there is anything more there, if there is, cool, if not, move on. Even so, during this peroid I would be expecting to have sex. The sex before marriage days are behind us, or at least, should be.
I thought she was attractive, pretty, sexy, and a nice genuine person, and we had a laugh. However there was little deep connection on a personal level, and I think that is a base requirement, but I also think that just because that isn't there, doesn't mean we shouldn't be having fun at all. Sex is a many splendid thing.
It's not fair for people to say, well if you don't see this becoming a relationship, then you shouldn't be with her in the first place. Well you know what, I think I deserve to having sex in my life too, regardless of what 'status' you want to give the circumstances.
I was happy with how things were, but I didn't want a relationship, and I think it's totally fair that she has the right to move on, but I also think its totally fair, that I'm not judged for that. I'll get into a relationship on my terms, when I am totally sure I love the person I'm with. In a way, its a natural occurence, the dating phase has a limited lifespan, and once thats over with, general concensus seems to be move on to "relationship" OR "regress to friends".
In this case it's "regressing to friends" I believe it is for the best, but in future, it think it was important for me to know a healthy level what kind of limits and rules should you be placing around how often you contact, or how little you contact, in the event that I do find somebody I'm a hugely attracted to, and want to take it further ie going from dating to relationship. I can see the answer now. THERE ARE NO LIMITS.
Hmm...I'm not really sure why you quoted me. I thought that you had regretted not contacting her more. Nothing is wrong with just wanting to be casual lovers. I was not making a judgement call, just answering the thread question.
But, now I'm wondering why you even bothered to ask the question after that comment. If you want to just screw, then just screw. I don't see where that is a problem if you are not pretending that it is more. Sounds like you did not want anymore than you already had. So, why bother calling her other than occassionally. She was not down for that or found more of what she needed somewhere else. She moved on. You are fine and she is fine. Now I'm not calling you a "dawg", so don't miss my point here, but I made this point to someone a while ago and that's the term I used. Here it is: It is okay to be a dawg if that is what you want to be. But, don't be a dawg and pretend to be a sheep. Then, act confused by the way the other person is acting. If you are going to be a dog, tell the other person that is how it is. That is the truly gentleman thing to do. Sometimes women just want to fuck too and she may not want to do a lot of social foreplay. That doesn't not make her a lady. Same rule applies either way. I'll take an honest dawg over a Mr. FuckedupRomantic any day. And, you don't have to be a mean or insensitive dawg. If you are honest than there is no need for that. If something comes up, you can always say "I told you I was dawg." What are they going to say, "Define dawg?" Then it is shame on them and as far as I'm concerned, you are free from judgement.
Same rule applies. Do you. You can't get what you need by being anything other than what you truly are. Idealy, what you need is someone that is giving you what makes you happy because they honestly want to and they are happy with it too. That is both of you being happy with "how things were going". That is enough. No one can judge that (not and it matters) because it is not any of their business.
I'm a big time romantic to a fault, but my eyes are always wide open. It is a constant state of learning. If you meet someone and there is that need to go the extra steps, then don't be shy. If it's not worth the effort to, don't pretend it is. Do you. Accept the out come either way.
I quoted your first post because despite the fact you had the wrong idea, it was essential a nice piece of thought out writing, that describes how the tos and fros of what happens in the relationship paradigm, how it should work, at least in a perfect world.
Being Dawg isn't my aim, but neither is falling for the wrong person just because it feels like the right time. If I met 'the one', (And I'm sure she is right out there waiting for me), I'd be happy to take things further, and would feel totally comfortable in a relationship. But if you have doubts, it usually because the attraction levels are not strong enough. At 25, I shouldn't be a major rush to find the right girl, but when she comes along, guarantee I will be a sucka for her. At heart I'm a romantic too, but it just alot of groundwork for me to get there. Until that happens though, I'm happy to just have fun.
Rather than wallow over the fact I lost one girl, who I wasn't that attracted to anyway, I should focus on meeting and interacting with more women, because thats the only way I will a) be able to have more 'fun' with somebody else b) have the best chance of finding that special girl.
I read John's answer Sandy ... he missed the depth of yr perception... man thing I suppose ? ..
sad... because u actually gave him his answer and solution
Sorry Sandy, I think I misinterpreted that comment. Its a fair point.
Unknown User
I know this is ask the gals... But I just have this strong urge to respond... Be yourself... Dont go by what a woman expects from you... If you want to text only once or twice a week, then do that... If you want to text 5 or 10 times a day do that... If you do what she wants, then you will find yourself texting her just because she wants you to and that will lead to resentment... I am not saying dont take what she wants into account, but dont change who you are to please someone...
Most importantly talk to her, be honest with what you are feeling... let her know why you do or dont text (call, talk, communicate...) as often as you do... She should let you know what her expectations are... If your both on the same page, then good for you both... I will say I cant imagine a woman would feel wanted in any way if your only talking a couple of times a week, even if it is FWB kind of relationship... Everyone wants to feel wanted and know that they are thought of...
Again I apologize ladies for intruding on your forum... Hugs to all!
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