I received this message for advice so I'm posting it anonymously here, because this is a problem that seems to put people into a spin quite often. The more people that can benefit from this advice, the better.
"I like this girl but I'm not sure how she feels about me and she knows i like her. Should i move on since I am not sure if she is interested in me?"
What we have here is a classic "Friend Zone" situation.
The short answer is yes, please move on. If a girl knows how you feel about her, and she is not addressing the situation or reciprocating with a "omg, I've been secretly crushing on you too!" response, then she is not interested in you!
I'll say it one more time, broken down, because this seems to be the statement that often results in people finding a million excuses to explain it away because your case is special and that people just don't get how 'unique' your particular relationship is: She. Is. Not. Interested.
The reason I am so certain of this is because when you find out (or even suspect) that the person you like definitely feels something for you, you aren't going to do the evasive 'buddy dodge' and waste time pretending to be platonic friends.
Women tend to really love having male friends in general. It can be refreshing to not constantly be around estrogen all the time. Sometimes they even lightly flirt with them because women enjoy attention and playful banter.
Some men take flirting very literally. Their friend Lucy might say "hey! sexy shirt... you're lookin' hot tonight, Toby!" one night at the bar. What Toby might hear can range from "I want to suck your dick" to "I want to marry you and have your babies." Lucy on the other hand was just casually bantering and indulging in some attention seeking behaviour. Every woman wants to imagine that all her male friends lust for her. This doesn't mean that she ever wants them to act on it.
Which brings us to the Awkward Moment:
You have confessed your feelings for your opposite sex friend. Perhaps you initiated a heartfelt conversation while driving in the car one evening as the sun set and Celine Dion played on the radio (this happened to me once). Or maybe it was a drunken text you ended up sending late one night. Or a slurred confession in the corner of the bar while she sipped her drink and prayed for an intervention to save you both from that moment you just can't really take back once it's all out in the open.
IF after confessing your feelings, this person changes the subject, ignores what you said, reiterates what a great person you are and how much they care about you as 'friend', suggests they set you up with someone else who would be 'perfect for you', or laughs it off and starts talking about what round of drinks to buy next... They are not interested!
Do not be misguided and start thinking they will change their minds later, or that if you continue being their BFF that they will see the light one day and realize that you are the man for them. And especially, please do not consider increasing your romantic overtures with a 'if at first you don't succeed, try, try again!' mentality.
Move on from this person. I know it's not easy when you have feelings for someone, but unless you want to ruin your friendship completely or entertain even more awkwardness, then it's best to accept that you are not fated to be together.
IF, by some anomaly of the typical friend zone rules, she does develop feelings for you much later on, let her come to you. Don't be the doormat waiting in the wings. In fact, it's common knowledge that when you move on and start pursuing other girls, the original object of your affections may start to get those first inklings of jealousy and wonder what they might have missed out on.
Good advice Olivia.
I wish more guys would take the (usually not so subtle) hint sooner, rather than making the situation awkward.
Excellent post, as usual Olivia!!
(boys take note - although I guess it applies to the girls too)
Sometimes guys don't know when they are in the Friend Zone, so they are more likely to initiate those awkward moments.
Here are some helpful hints!
How to know if you are in the Friend Zone!
She starts asking your advice on other dudes and wants your help with decoding their real intentions. In other words, you are her "bro-translator" when it comes to guys that she actually likes!
When you are out at the bar with her, she is on the prowl for other guys and entertains their advances while you buy her drinks and watch her purse while she's on the dance floor grinding with them.
You are willing to do things that no other guys will do... like take salsa dancing lessons with her.
She invites you out to group activities sporadicly OR on those nights were she doesn't want to deal with other guys. You are her 'fake boyfriend' or wing-man that will go with her to those parties nobody else wants to be bothered with.
You are on-call as her 'date' for boring things like weddings, funerals and broadway musicals.
She invites you over (usually on a Sunday or Monday night) when she's exhausted from her weekend fuck-fest with other dudes and she just wants to chill out and play scrabble or watch Harry Potter.
You are that friend that comes with non-sexual benefits like a big-screen TV, a yacht, or a time-share in Aruba. OR you can fix things like her computer or sound-system and know how to install her new kitchen sink or fancy tiled backsplash. If her calls usually begin with "Hey Toby, do you wanna come by my place tonight. I can make chilli for dinner and then maybe you can help me with XYZ", you are in the Friend Zone!
So many of your points ring true with me, Olivia. Fortunately (did I just say that?), I have been in this situation so many times that I figured out everything you said a while ago and no longer spend long periods of time pining for girls that are never going to be interested. I consider myself the 'master' of the friend zone.
I have a peculiar example of this sort of thing, though. There was a girl who genuinely seemed more interested in me than I was in her to begin with (and that wasn't just in my imagination, trust me). On our second meeting, I got her number and she barely stopped texting me from then on. When we met again (by arrangement) at a 'disco', she was all over me and my friends actually double-took at me grinding and making out with her (so unlike me). She took me back to her flat and we spent the night together, although there was no sex.
Seeing as this sort of thing NEVER happens to me, and she seemed pretty much perfect for me (hot to boot), I quickly became infatuated. Already wary of my previous failings with women, I strived to stay out of the friend zone; I wanted to take the relationship forward. Unfortunately, there was an on-off ex-boyfriend lurking in the background, conversation about whom I purposely avoided. I was and am sure I was making my intentions clear but it still seemed like I was slipping into the position of confidante yet again. I was so frustrated.
Before I let myself get too far into the zone, I decided I would just have a flat-out conversation with her about it. When she expressed then that she didn't want that kind of relationship with me then, I said to her, "Should I just forget about it then?" and she said that she didn't want me to do that. I was so confused, but carried on. It wouldn't have been so bad if she hadn't left that glimmer of hope. The friendship became excruciating to me because of my attachment to her (especially seeing her being jerked around by her asshole (ex-)boyfriend). It was a very emotional couple of months for both of us, but I didn't make any more advances on her. Another long overdue conversation put me much more firmly in the friend zone, and I could finally start to move on properly.
A few weeks later, when she drunkenly came onto me, it took all my strength to resist her (I deserve a fucking medal, quite honestly). I knew I couldn't put myself through that drama. That nearly destroyed our friendship, but thankfully we got through it and are still very good friends to this day. I realise we weren't as compatible as I had myself believe and I'm quite glad nothing came of it in the end.
So be cautious - even when it seems like it could go somewhere, you can still end up in the friend zone. The important thing is, like Olivia says, to realise when you're there. It took me a bit longer in this case, but I put that largely down to her. Sure, I got hurt, but I learned a lot for future relationships.
Also, I take exception to you describing Broadway musicals as "boring". To be frank, I'd love it if more of my friends would invite me out on such 'dates'.
Love your work, O.
Ok, probably a dumb question but how do you avoid being put in the friendzone? I'm pretty much guaranteed to be in the friendzone if I can get a woman to talk to me for longer than 5 minutes and I'm tired of not being seen as a potential partner
I second that. Or, get a job as a pizza delivery man. When your work is over, order your own pizza, then deliver it to the girl of your dreams. Insert your cock through the middle of the pizza from the underside, and then when she opens the box, she'll see that you'll have delivered her a large sausage!
Unmistakably not a 'friend zone' move, Casanova. ;)
Olivia offered a female perspective in her repsonse.
Which was generic and missed the point entirely, here is a male perspective, JUST ASK HER....problem solved...
Oh and I have numerous and specific examples of times when the female of the species changed her mind... plus several examples of men NOT interpreting "flirting" as that means she wants to suck my dick!
Show me a lady who hasn't swelled at the persistence of a guy and I'll show you a fibber?
So friend of olivia, be straight and ask her directly, then you'll know.
Then you can move on..and if you're still unsure after a direct question, then follow Olivia's advice to the letter..or for quicker results - try LadyX's advice..
The friend zone is not the horrible place which some paint it to be. It is not some purgatory where you are meant to be in emotional limbo.
I feel that I'm fortunate to have enjoyed several female friendships over the last 30 years. Those ladies all have had a substantial circle of friends too.
Farm and cultivate the friend zone, I say...you may well be glad that you did. Be a gentleman and a rogue. At appropriate moments.
And eventually, you may even bone a few of your close female friends. It just happens on their time-table and not the one you may have once desired.
Patience, young dudes.
The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
I had a male friend that tried three times (once every six weeks) before he finally said "ohhhh I get it now."
We would usually be talking about random things at his place when all of a sudden he would dim the lights, put on the sex tunes and sit a little too close to me on the sofa. A lot of times I would actually be talking about other men, hoping I could divert things from going there. But nope... he'd slowly move in for the kill... ugh!!!
The whole "I don't see you like that. We are just buddies" was awkward the first time. But when he tried two more times after that I got pissed off. When I asked "what part of 'I don't see you like that' didn't you get?" he just replied. "Oh, I thought you just needed more time."
With every male friend I've had, I always make it a point to talk about other guys I'm interested in or find hot. I've always hoped that they would be able to understand that I wouldn't be crushing and gushing about other guys if I was the slightest bit interested in them. But... some guys are totally clueless.
Maybe this has already been mentioned or asked but what are the benefits of the friend zone for the uninterested person thats being pursued?
Is it like a test of the other person's loyalty and intentions for a genuine relationship(be that friendship or romantic) or do they keep the friendzoned person around as like a contingency plan, ie "I'm in my 30s now and Mr Right still hasnt shown up, this guy will have to do" type of thing?
btw, thats not from personal experience, just trying to gain more insight
You know, this is not just a phenomenon that is relegated to men coming on to their lady friends.
I've experienced a small handful of women over the last 30 years who wanted more than friendship. And that moment is quite awkward. Even more complicated when it occurs in front of other people you both may know.
Like leaning over close for the pre-kiss dreamy eyed look (only to not have it returned). It did not help that she was the younger sister of a woman I was deeply in love/lust with, 20 years earlier. Eh, I managed to salvage that friendship by blaming it on the booze she and I had consumed. She never tried that shit again.
A 50 year old woman sitting across a table from me, while my best male friend sat to my right. The 36 year old woman sitting close to my left who I'd been banging occasionally for the last 7 years (was her daughter). When the mother proclaimed after her usual four Long Island Tea cocktails...
"I bet I can suck your dick better than my daughter can!" She boasted this verbally, while leaning back in the chair, spreading her legs and flashing me and my friend her snatch - in commando mode under her skirt.
Mom was pretty good looking...but her daughter (who is not easily stunned nor embarrassed) was slack jawed and I think I heard her jaw hit the table top in front of her. My friend was in the middle of sipping his Jack & Coke...and I think he almost spilled it on himself.
I just sat there and felt the small hairs on the back of my neck - shoot straight up and out.
There was no recovery possible on that occasion.
So this isn't just a Beta move, which is foisted on women by the less experienced men of the world.
The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
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