As we all know a main clause (also know as an independent clause) must contain both a subject and a verb that must agree. Meaning, if the subject is singular, the verb must be singular, and if the subject is plural, the verb must be plural.
Now let me give an example of a grammatically correct sentence that sounds awful with an agreeing verb-subject.
"A group of people is playing in the park."
The singular subject "group" agrees with the singular verb "is", yet this sentence sounds awkward, clumsy and, more importantly wrong.
Is this sentence grammatically correct? If not, why not? It looks perfect good to me, yet it sounds bloody awful.
There has been much debate between me and my friends over this and we would be grateful for any help.
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Verb-subject agreement dilemma. Need help!
Quote by kornslayer1
It should be 'are'. A group of people are playing in the park. People would be the subject here and playing is still the verb.
A tip for you: if a noun is preceded by the word "of" it can't be the subject of a sentence. In this case "people" is telling us what the group consists of and is therefore an adjective. Not too sure about "playing" but I think in this case as it is a verb with "ing" on the end, it's the present particle form of the verb "play".
Jeremy, we need some clever English bods in here to clear this one up.
Somebody heeeeeeeeeelp!
Quote by tiddlywink
A tip for you: if a noun is preceded by the word "of" it can't be the subject of a sentence. In this case "people" is telling us what the group consists of and is therefore an adjective. Not too sure about "playing" but I think in this case as it is a verb with "ing" on the end, it's the present particle form of the verb "play".
Jeremy, we need some clever English bods in here to clear this one up.
Somebody heeeeeeeeeelp!
I'm not sure that's right, dear friend. PM DanielleX, I'm sure she can answer your question.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by tiddlywink
A tip for you: if a noun is preceded by the word "of" it can't be the subject of a sentence. In this case "people" is telling us what the group consists of and is therefore an adjective. Not too sure about "playing" but I think in this case as it is a verb with "ing" on the end, it's the present particle form of the verb "play".
Jeremy, we need some clever English bods in here to clear this one up.
Somebody heeeeeeeeeelp!
The subject is "a group of people", therefore it is plural and "are" is correct.
Of doesn't make a noun an adjective, it's a preposition. It signifies a relationship to another noun. A pot of gold is not the same as a gold pot or golden pot.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by kornslayer1
It should be 'are'. A group of people are playing in the park. People would be the subject here and playing is still the verb.
To be is the verb not to play.
The Linebacker
Quote by dpw
The subject is "a group of people", therefore it is plural and "are" is correct.
Of doesn't make a noun an adjective, it's a preposition. It signifies a relationship to another noun. A pot of gold is not the same as a gold pot or golden pot.
Correct.
Cryptic Vigilante
The exact same dilemma exists in my own language (and I assume in many other languages as well), and the official grammatical rule to follow is simply to identify which noun is the proper subject.
Which between 'group' and 'people' makes more sense to accept as the subject? It can really depend according to the sentence and/or the context:
In "A group of people are playing" or "A group of people are talking", it makes more sense if 'people' is the subject; many different individuals are interacting with one another, on an individual basis.
In "A group of people is waiting" or "A group of people is singing", it makes more sense if 'group' is the subject; many individuals are performing the exact same action as a whole.
Generally, the one that 'sounds' better is often the correct choice. There are some cases where both could be accepted though, for example "A flock of birds is flying" or "A flock of birds are flying". In this instance you could simply choose according to the emphasis you want to give: do you intend to describe birds that are flying together as a whole, or many different birds that are all flying individually?
Which between 'group' and 'people' makes more sense to accept as the subject? It can really depend according to the sentence and/or the context:
In "A group of people are playing" or "A group of people are talking", it makes more sense if 'people' is the subject; many different individuals are interacting with one another, on an individual basis.
In "A group of people is waiting" or "A group of people is singing", it makes more sense if 'group' is the subject; many individuals are performing the exact same action as a whole.
Generally, the one that 'sounds' better is often the correct choice. There are some cases where both could be accepted though, for example "A flock of birds is flying" or "A flock of birds are flying". In this instance you could simply choose according to the emphasis you want to give: do you intend to describe birds that are flying together as a whole, or many different birds that are all flying individually?
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by SereneProdigy
The exact same dilemma exists in my own language (and I assume in many other languages as well), and the official grammatical rule to follow is simply to identify which noun is the proper subject.
Which between 'group' and 'people' makes more sense to accept as the subject? It can really depend according to the sentence and/or the context:
In "A group of people are playing" or "A group of people are talking", it makes more sense if 'people' is the subject; many different individuals are interacting with one another, on an individual basis.
In "A group of people is waiting" or "A group of people is singing", it makes more sense if 'group' is the subject; many individuals are performing the exact same action as a whole.
Generally, the one that 'sounds' better is often the correct choice. There are some cases where both could be accepted though, for example "A flock of birds is flying" or "A flock of birds are flying". In this instance you could simply choose according to the emphasis you want to give: do you intend to describe birds that are flying together as a whole, or many different birds that are all flying individually?
Because of the preposition the subject becomes a group of people, not group and not people. That is the point of the preposition, it's the relationship between the nouns.
A flock of geese is plural, a flock is singular.
Cryptic Vigilante
Quote by dpw
Because of the preposition the subject becomes a group of people, not group and not people. That is the point of the preposition, it's the relationship between the nouns.
A flock of geese is plural, a flock is singular.
I'm not a native English speaker, but I don't believe this to be accurate; your rule wouldn't make sense in a lot of sentences.
Consider a teacher talking to his students:
"This class of students is the best I've ever had!"
"This class of students are the best I've ever had!" really wouldn't make a lot of sense in this instance; 'class of students' is not a distinct plural noun at all here, as you described before.
As extracted in mrd82 link, linguists explain it pretty much as I described it earlier:
Quote by Link
You might consider citing the The American Heritage® Book of English Usage:
Group as a collective noun can be followed by a singular or plural verb.
It takes a singular verb when the persons or things that make up the group are considered collectively: "The dance group is ready for rehearsal."
Group takes a plural verb when the persons or things that constitute it are considered individually: "The group were divided in their sympathies."
Active Ink Slinger
My humble opinion on the matter is as follows.
'A group' is a singular subject so the verb 'is' is correct.
'of people' is a prepositional phrase describing the group.
'Playing in the park' describes the action denoted by the verb.
The sentence is technically correct.
'A group' is a singular subject so the verb 'is' is correct.
'of people' is a prepositional phrase describing the group.
'Playing in the park' describes the action denoted by the verb.
The sentence is technically correct.
Story Verifier
Quote by Vilhelm1970
My humble opinion on the matter is as follows.
'A group' is a singular subject so the verb 'is' is correct.
'of people' is a prepositional phrase describing the group.
'Playing in the park' describes the action denoted by the verb.
The sentence is technically correct.
This is not a clear-cut case. Almost every noun that stands for more than one of something (collective noun) is in itself singular and can be used as such, though almost all usages agree that you use plural when the verb targets each member of the collective noun indivdually.
In the example, most would use plural, because every member of the group is playing and likely not the same, highly coordinated thing. When it is really important that every member of a collective noun is doing something, plural becomes unavoidable. "The recruits gave their oaths," is just as necessarily plural as, "The new group of recruits gave their oaths," because just a single one not giving it would break the whole image.
In contrast, if you swap "A group" with "A band", which makes the "playing" a coordinated effort and takes the focus away from each individual, you'll look at the band as a whole and use singular -- but let them play "instruments" and you'll be back to plural, because every member of the band plays his/her (I'm deliberately avoiding the neutral 'their' here) instrument differently.
As I wrote, it's not clear-cut, and you'll always find edge cases where you can go one way or another. British English prefers plural while American English tends towards singular, but if in doubt, use a search engine. English can even differ between different parts of the US. Keep in mind that there are some expections that are idiomatic too. In Lush guidelines, we lean slightly towards British English for consistency's sake.
As another example, it's always, "The couple split up to go their own ways," but, depending on regional preference, "The couple had its/their honeymoon in Vegas."
SereneProdigy's advice is correct, also about the class being the best. If you look closely, a class can be the best ever while it still has members who aren't really up to snuff, so you're not looking at every individual.
So, back to the original question, both "is" and "are" can be used, and its more a question of regional preference and consistency (and perhaps applicable style guidelines) than of black-or-white rules. There's no clear, universal, ten-words rule-of-thumb.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by SereneProdigy
The last reference on English grammar that I would choose, is anything with American in the title.
Look up the subject of a sentence. A pronoun, noun or noun phrase can be the subject.
"The group of people" is a noun phrase and plural.
"This class of students" is a demonstrative pronoun (This) which is the subject, followed by a subordinate clause (class of sudents). This, as opposed to these, is singular.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by ChrissieLecker
This is not a clear-cut case. Almost every noun that stands for more than one of something (collective noun) is in itself singular and can be used as such, though almost all usages agree that you use plural when the verb targets each member of the collective noun indivdually.
In the example, most would use plural, because every member of the group is playing and likely not the same, highly coordinated thing. When it is really important that every member of a collective noun is doing something, plural becomes unavoidable. "The recruits gave their oaths," is just as necessarily plural as, "The new group of recruits gave their oaths," because just a single one not giving it would break the whole image.
In contrast, if you swap "A group" with "A band", which makes the "playing" a coordinated effort and takes the focus away from each individual, you'll look at the band as a whole and use singular -- but let them play "instruments" and you'll be back to plural, because every member of the band plays his/her (I'm deliberately avoiding the neutral 'their' here) instrument differently.
As I wrote, it's not clear-cut, and you'll always find edge cases where you can go one way or another. British English prefers plural while American English tends towards singular, but if in doubt, use a search engine. English can even differ between different parts of the US. Keep in mind that there are some expections that are idiomatic too. In Lush guidelines, we lean slightly towards British English for consistency's sake.
As another example, it's always, "The couple split up to go their own ways," but, depending on regional preference, "The couple had its/their honeymoon in Vegas."
SereneProdigy's advice is correct, also about the class being the best. If you look closely, a class can be the best ever while it still has members who aren't really up to snuff, so you're not looking at every individual.
So, back to the original question, both "is" and "are" can be used, and its more a question of regional preference and consistency (and perhaps applicable style guidelines) than of black-or-white rules. There's no clear, universal, ten-words rule-of-thumb.
Chrissie, there is no such thing as British English. There is English and it has derivations and bastardisations.
Thank you all for your replies. You've all been very helpful and I'm entirely grateful.
Chrissielecker, you are obviously a very intelligent person, and I'm very impressed with your answer. But I'd like to add one more thing, if I may.
Here's an interesting way to look at it. Rearrange the words in the sentence.
"There is a group of people playing in the park."
It sounds perfect with the predicate closer to subject. It's placing the singular verb "is" next to the plural noun "people" that makes it sound so awful.
So my original sentence is grammatically correct. But ChrissieLecker summed it up perfectly. Collective nouns can be a pain. They can be used as singular or plural. However, there is no written rule on the matter. It's a dark area as far as I can tell.
So remember this: If in doubt, rearrange the words. :d/
Chrissielecker, you are obviously a very intelligent person, and I'm very impressed with your answer. But I'd like to add one more thing, if I may.
Here's an interesting way to look at it. Rearrange the words in the sentence.
"There is a group of people playing in the park."
It sounds perfect with the predicate closer to subject. It's placing the singular verb "is" next to the plural noun "people" that makes it sound so awful.
So my original sentence is grammatically correct. But ChrissieLecker summed it up perfectly. Collective nouns can be a pain. They can be used as singular or plural. However, there is no written rule on the matter. It's a dark area as far as I can tell.
So remember this: If in doubt, rearrange the words. :d/
Story Verifier
Quote by dpw
Chrissie, there is no such thing as British English. There is English and it has derivations and bastardisations.
Well, it's a lot less of a mouthful than "predominant common denominator in accepted guidelines for written grammar on the British Isles and in major parts of the Commonwealth with regional exceptions" so I'll just keep using it
Quote by tiddlywink
So remember this: If in doubt, rearrange the words.
Thank you! This is never a bad idea, as it can make you aware of many finesses of grammar. Another rule for collective nouns from a famous philosopher is: don't stare at them too long, or they'll stare back into you
Another way to analysis the sentence -- and this is something I learned many years ago when I was an ickle girl -- is strip away the descriptive words so you're left with the very core of the sentence.
In this case the core of the sentence would read: "A group is playing".
Sounds much better than "A group are playing", don't you think?
In this case the core of the sentence would read: "A group is playing".
Sounds much better than "A group are playing", don't you think?
Head Penguin
Sorry, I'm late to this. I've been on holiday.
The correct form is, 'A group of people are playing in the park.' It sounds right cos it is.
People try to talk themselves out of this, stating that 'A group' is singular. It's not. A group is a collective noun and so by definition is plural.
In the same way, 'A flock of sea gulls have just landed on that field' is correct, not 'has landed.'
Incidentally,
A group of geese is a skein (in flight) or a gaggle (on the ground)
Danielle xx
The correct form is, 'A group of people are playing in the park.' It sounds right cos it is.
People try to talk themselves out of this, stating that 'A group' is singular. It's not. A group is a collective noun and so by definition is plural.
In the same way, 'A flock of sea gulls have just landed on that field' is correct, not 'has landed.'
Incidentally,
Quote by dpw
A flock of geese is plural, a flock is singular.
A group of geese is a skein (in flight) or a gaggle (on the ground)
Danielle xx
A steamy lesbian three way
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by DanielleX
Sorry, I'm late to this. I've been on holiday.
The correct form is, 'A group of people are playing in the park.' It sounds right cos it is.
People try to talk themselves out of this, stating that 'A group' is singular. It's not. A group is a collective noun and so by definition is plural.
In the same way, 'A flock of sea gulls have just landed on that field' is correct, not 'has landed.'
Incidentally,
A group of geese is a skein (in flight) or a gaggle (on the ground)
Danielle xx
I was going to say a skein. However, I thought the American members would think I was talking German, lol.
Quote by DanielleX
Sorry, I'm late to this. I've been on holiday.
The correct form is, 'A group of people are playing in the park.' It sounds right cos it is.
People try to talk themselves out of this, stating that 'A group' is singular. It's not. A group is a collective noun and so by definition is plural.
In the same way, 'A flock of sea gulls have just landed on that field' is correct, not 'has landed.'
Incidentally,
A group of geese is a skein (in flight) or a gaggle (on the ground)
Danielle xx
Quote by tiddlywink
Thank you for replying, Danny, it's much appreciated.
I was thinking the same thing at first and I'll tell you what swayed me.
In this case the subject noun is preceded by the indefinite article "A" and must surely be treated as a singular noun.
Or is a collective noun an exception to this rule?
Cryptic Vigilante
Frankly, people can argue about this all they want according to their own personal perspective, but the matter of fact is that some strict guidelines exist regarding which to choose between singular or plural.
From Dictionary.com (if this isn't a trustworthy source for you, I wonder what is):
And yeah, this sums up once again what I've been explaining since my very first post: it's all about considering the collective noun as either a single entity acting as a whole or a collection of items/persons acting individually. The context will determine which option makes the most sense, and again, some cases aren't so obvious and in which you could choose one or the other according to the emphasis you want to provide.
In cases of doubt, try to identify the correct subject. For example, in the sentence:
"The gang of bikers is/are debating whether or not they should report this incident to the police."
Ask yourself this question: who/what is debating? Is it the gang itself as a singular entity, or the bikers within that gang?
In this example, it's fairly obvious that the 'bikers' are debating (and are therefore the subject), not the 'gang' itself.
Also, in ambiguous cases, American English will favor singular verbs while British English will favor plural verbs. It doesn't make either choice right or wrong, it will simply sound more/less familiar depending on the nationality.
From Dictionary.com (if this isn't a trustworthy source for you, I wonder what is):
Quote by Dictionary.com
A collective noun refers to a whole group as a single entity but also to the members of that group. A collective noun names a group of individuals or things with a singular form. Examples of collective nouns are: faculty, herd, team. There are collective nouns for people, animals, objects, and concepts.
The use of a singular or plural verb depends on the context of the sentence.
If one is referring to the whole group as a single entity, then the singular verb is best: "The school board has called a special session." When a group noun is used with a singular determiner (eg. a/an, each, every, this, that), singular verbs and pronouns are normal: "The team is away this weekend; they have a good chance of winning."
There are other contexts where the plural verb is more natural: "My family are always fighting among themselves." When the individuals in the collection or group receive the emphasis, the plural verb is acceptable.
Generally, however, in American English, collective nouns take singular verbs. In British English, collective nouns are more often treated as plurals that take plural verbs.
And yeah, this sums up once again what I've been explaining since my very first post: it's all about considering the collective noun as either a single entity acting as a whole or a collection of items/persons acting individually. The context will determine which option makes the most sense, and again, some cases aren't so obvious and in which you could choose one or the other according to the emphasis you want to provide.
In cases of doubt, try to identify the correct subject. For example, in the sentence:
"The gang of bikers is/are debating whether or not they should report this incident to the police."
Ask yourself this question: who/what is debating? Is it the gang itself as a singular entity, or the bikers within that gang?
In this example, it's fairly obvious that the 'bikers' are debating (and are therefore the subject), not the 'gang' itself.
Also, in ambiguous cases, American English will favor singular verbs while British English will favor plural verbs. It doesn't make either choice right or wrong, it will simply sound more/less familiar depending on the nationality.
Head Penguin
Quote by tiddlywink
Thank you for replying, Danny, it's much appreciated.
I was thinking the same thing at first and I'll tell you what swayed me.
In this case the subject noun is preceded by the indefinite article "A" and must surely be treated as a singular noun.
Or is a collective noun an exception to this rule?
The indefinite article is irrelevant. It just means it's any old group as opposed to a specific group
Danny xxx
A steamy lesbian three way
Quote by tiddlywink
Another way to analysis the sentence -- and this is something I learned many years ago when I was an ickle girl -- is strip away the descriptive words so you're left with the very core of the sentence.
In this case the core of the sentence would read: "A group is playing".
Sounds much better than "A group are playing", don't you think?
There's a big grammatical difference between "A group" and "A group of people". In the first example you can replace "A group" with "It", thus making it correct with is because we are talking about a single group. The core of the phrase here is "group" and thus it becomes is. However in the second example "People" become the core of the sentence and determines the conjugation of the verb, thus "A group of people" are since it is plural. This is one of the more complex and tricky ones in grammar and sadly the only thing that will get it right is.... studying *awaits for the large moan and displeased people*
As for the British English; Yes, you can say American English and you can say British English. Both are equal when it comes to academics and especially in teaching a second language. You might get grumpy looks in the UK for writing AE, but no one with English as a non-native language will criticise you for writing color and not colour.
Head Nurse
Quote by tiddlywink
I would like to offer a piece of advice, if I may.
The subject of the sentence "A group of people are playing in the park" is "group". Not "group of people".
"Of people" is a prepositional phrase functioning adjectivally and modifying the noun "group".
You cannot use a prepositional phrase as the subject of a sentence.
We have our verb "are playing" (the present progressive tense form of the verb 'to play'), followed by another prepositional phrase "in the park".
Is this a serious post?
Head Nurse
Nevermind, your amended post doesn't make me question anything at all. it was the previous version.
Carry on.
Carry on.