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Using Song Lyrics in a story

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overmykneenow
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by nicola


Nope, you pay per line used, after you get permission.

I was always under the (wrong) impression you could use a few lines under the "Fair Use" rule, but alas, you can't.

The sampling comparison doesn't wash with copyright lawyers.


So called "fair use" is an absolute minefield and outside the US it pretty much doesn't exist in law. Safest way to use song lyrics is choose a song written before the war or write your own.
Warning: The opinions above are those of an anonymous individual on the internet. They are opinions, unless they're facts. They may be ill-informed, out of touch with reality or just plain stupid. They may contain traces of irony. If reading these opinions causes you to be become outraged or you start displaying the symptoms of outrage, stop reading them immediately. If symptoms persist, consult a psychiatrist.

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Guest
Lurker
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Quote by RumpleForeskin
Kristen, how dare you and Nic threadjack the previous threadjack by Sprite and the Magical One? Even worse, your t-jack got the thread back on topic. Bad form, I'm sure, but appreciated. ;)

One last time and with feeling: If you want to get published, either get gpermission or get rid of the lyrics.



I think your point was lost in the ozone somewhere east of Luckenbach Tx, ;P
DirtyMartini
Purveyor of Poetry & Porn
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Quote by sprite
For those of you who don't know, while the use of song titles in a story is ok under Fair Use laws, using song lyrics is not; Song titles are fine, lyrics are covered as 'creative works' (unless in the public domain). Yes, I know I've done it before without realizing it, but it's not ok unless you have permission from the song's writers (as opposed to the performer).

Just a heads up.

http://annerallen.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/so-you-want-to-use-song-lyrics-in-your.html

http://oreilly.com/oreilly/author/permission/


And btw...you can see that her blog posts refer to use of lyrics in a book..

As you can see from the link I posted to the copyright office site, this whole thing is really a non-issue when it comes to quoting a few lines of copyrighted material in something like a story posted on Lush...

Like everything else in the world, it only becomes an issue when money is involved...or potentially involved...

If you're looking for more info on this, NOLO is a highly regarded legal info site...check out the section about "Non-commercial use"...they use the example of quoting Bob Dylan in a poem...

NOLO - The 'Fair Use' Rule: When Use of Copyrighted Material is Acceptable
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-rule-copyright-material-30100.html

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Liz
Scarlet Seductress
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Quote by DirtyMartini


And btw...you can see that her blog posts refer to use of lyrics in a book..

As you can see from the link I posted to the copyright office site, this whole thing is really a non-issue when it comes to quoting a few lines of copyrighted material in something like a story posted on Lush...

Like everything else in the world, it only becomes an issue when money is involved...or potentially involved...

If you're looking for more info on this, NOLO is a highly regarded legal info site...check out the section about "Non-commercial use"...they use the example of quoting Bob Dylan in a poem...

NOLO - The 'Fair Use' Rule: When Use of Copyrighted Material is Acceptable
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-rule-copyright-material-30100.html


I wonder if a lawyer could argue that by submitting a story using copyrighted materials to Lush, which is a commercial operation due to it's advertising and sponsorship, that you are in fact helping to promote the site by submitting that content.

I don't think it's the same as posting a personal piece on your own blog for instance.

It might just be better to insist that no one uses actual song lyrics in stories and avoid the whole issue altogether.
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Liz


I wonder if a lawyer could argue that by submitting a story using copyrighted materials to Lush, which is a commercial operation due to it's advertising and sponsorship, that you are in fact helping to promote the site by submitting that content.

I don't think it's the same as posting a personal piece on your own blog for instance.

It might just be better to insist that no one uses actual song lyrics in stories and avoid the whole issue altogether.


I wonder if that would extend then to the forum where people post song lyrics all the time. It is still part of a website that wants to turn a profit with adds n such. Why would it only apply to the stories? The forum is content too.
Liz
Scarlet Seductress
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Quote by Magical_felix


I wonder if that would extend then to the forum where people post song lyrics all the time. It is still part of a website that wants to turn a profit with adds n such. Why would it only apply to the stories? The forum is content too.


Good point.
Although, I suppose the fact that stories can be transmitted off-site adds another element to the equation; you can send them to your Kindle device for example.

I think it also avoids the inevitable fact that some authors won't attribute them properly or at all.
Magical_felix
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Liz


Good point.
Although, I suppose that fact that stories can be transmitted off-site adds another element to the equation; you can send them to your Kindle device for example.

I think it also avoids the inevitable fact that some authors won't attribute them properly or at all.


I see people post videos with lyrics on youtube a lot and those can be embedded to almost any type of website and those remain on youtube. Maybe it's technically infringing on the original lyric writer's intellectual property or whatever but they probably don't care unless it's something like a movie, main stream novel etc. There are also those lyric websites with tons of ads on them that pretty much make money by just posting lyrics all day.

...But like how you mention, these sites attribute the lyrics properly.

Like, in a movie, they dont tell you who the artist is when they play the song.
Liz
Scarlet Seductress
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Quote by Magical_felix


I see people post videos with lyrics on youtube a lot and those can be embedded to almost any type of website and those remain on youtube. Maybe it's technically infringing on the original lyric writer's intellectual property or whatever but they probably don't care unless it's something like a movie, main stream novel etc. There are also those lyric websites with tons of ads on them that pretty much make money by just posting lyrics all day.

...But like how you mention, these sites attribute the lyrics properly.

Like, in a movie, they dont tell you who the artist is when they play the song.


They do in the credits though smile

I'm happy with whatever decision the policy maker decides upon, but we have had instances in the past where poems have been submitted consisting almost entirely of song lyrics.
Without attribution, the author is effectively asking for that piece to be published as their original work, which it isn't.

You can still use song titles without any issues though...

"Jack spent Saturday night twirling around his apartment, singing Careless Whisper by George Michael into a hair brush."

DirtyMartini
Purveyor of Poetry & Porn
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Quote by Liz


I wonder if a lawyer could argue that by submitting a story using copyrighted materials to Lush, which is a commercial operation due to it's advertising and sponsorship, that you are in fact helping to promote the site by submitting that content.



If you could win that argument, you should probably quit your job over here as a mod, and become a lawyer...just sayin'

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Swollen
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by overmykneenow


So called "fair use" is an absolute minefield and outside the US it pretty much doesn't exist in law. Safest way to use song lyrics is choose a song written before the war or write your own.


Yes, I have to fully agree with my lover on this one!
Kee
Sensual Hobgoblin
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This web site gives a very in-depth explanation of the law and associated issues. If this is an issue with you and a story, give it a read.

https://www.thelaw.com/law/are-song-titles-lyrics-protected-by-copyright-or-trademark-law.317/

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An oldie but goodie, https://www.lushstories.com/stories/monster-sex/the-emerald-lagoon An Editor's Pick from a comp a couple of years ago.

If you enjoy either, please comment. My ego needs a boost, ha! Thanks.

Carlos2112
Devil's Advocate
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Aw poop on a stick,
I think this may torpedo a story I've been working on for a while. The premise involves the music loving protagonist attempting to get his life together & throughout are relevant lines from multiple songs from different artists.
I thought about the intellectual property side of it & thought of citing the artist name within the body of text itself or give credit at the end so as not to interrupt the flow.
Does it matter that I'm not making any money off their creations? YouTubers add 2 bits of info consistently they didn't create it & they're not making any money from it. Perhaps that takes curse off.
Thoughts?



That which did not kill me didn't try hard enough
WannabeWordsmith
Writius Eroticus
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Quote by Carlos2112
Does it matter that I'm not making any money off their creations?


Sadly not. While crediting works does acknowledge their use, and YouTubers do (sometimes) get away with background music, they can and do get asked/forced to take down content that armies of lawyers are paid by content owners to "protect".

Whether one agrees with such copyright laws or not, we have a zero-tolerance policy on this site for plagiarism, to help avoid people copying content from other sites and either using it wholesale or "basing" stories on chunks of other people's work. This, we believe, extends to song lyrics - by inference written by others - and falls in line with our policy. It also helps keep the site owner out of any potential litigation wars, which we don't have the resources to fight. Thus, song titles and artists are fine, as Liz mentioned above, but no lyrics. Period.

Is it possible to paraphrase the lyrics in your story to still get across their essence without infringing any direct copyright?

Please browse my digital bookshelf. In this collection, you can find 109 full stories, 10 micro-stories, and 2 poems with the following features:


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RejectReality
Testing The Waters.
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Quote by WannabeWordsmith

Is it possible to paraphrase the lyrics in your story to still get across their essence without infringing any direct copyright?


Even though it's black erotic horror and completely out of bounds here, I can offer some safe passages from one of mine for an example.

Morgan left his place of concealment, creeping up on the blind side of the wall surrounding the mansion. The gentle slope behind the wall served to conceal everything on the seaward side. A quick peek through the gate revealed darkened windows and no sign of life, as usual.


The light posts on either side of the gate provided a ridiculously easy means of gaining the top of the wall. With strength and practiced skill, Morgan shinnied up the pole, grasping the top of the wall and carefully eyeing the house one final time.


Morgan climbed in through the window and stuck his head back out to check left and right for any signs of someone having noticed him. Confident that he'd entered without detection, he closed the window and knelt down to pick up the slivers of wood dislodged during the break-in. He dropped them in his pocket out of habit to hide the obvious evidence of his entrance.


Naturally, the place he's robbing is on the seaside, considering it's based on the lyrics of Genesis - "Home by the Sea" That song conjures up some dark imagery, and I've written two horror takes on it.
LakeShoreLimited
Active Ink Slinger
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Lush can get prickly about song lyrics. Recently in one of my stories they stripped out a single line from The Doors song "Soul Kitchen." It wasn't even spoken or sung by a character; the implication was that the narrator merely thought about it. But it was the complete line, and when the story was published, the line was gone.

Much earlier I had someone sing four lines (I think) of Paul Simon's "Duncan." Then were a couple of lines of dialogue where she spoke to someone else about the meaning of the song. It must have been too much to simply remove, so the moderator sent it back and told me to rewrite it.
laura
Mana wahine
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Quote by RejectReality


Naturally, the place he's robbing is on the seaside, considering it's based on the lyrics of Genesis - "Home by the Sea" That song conjures up some dark imagery, and I've written two horror takes on it.


I love that you used imagery from that song in your story. *swoons*
Meagananne1986
Sexy Seductive Siren
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Quote by sprite


here's the one you'll need to get to MY level.



Jack with a cock that reached to the sky would be better suited for Sprite I think. A ladder is just too mundane!
Meagan
Jack_42
Active Ink Slinger
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I once wrote a story about Buddy Holly - he missed the plane but lost his memory. After 20 years he remembered - went to a local music store and convinced people who he was by playing ''That'll be the day. The day that I die. '' I so wanted the story to be true.
Unknown User
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I have used songs in stories but just referred to the titles and themes, not the actual lyrics. OTOH, if you included some lyrics as lines of dialogue, no one would probably notice.

"I will always love you," she said.

"I want to rock and roll all night and party every day!" he roared as he entered the club.

And so on.
LakeShoreLimited
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by seeker4
I have used songs in stories but just referred to the titles and themes, not the actual lyrics. OTOH, if you included some lyrics as lines of dialogue, no one would probably notice.

"I will always love you," she said.

"I want to rock and roll all night and party every day!" he roared as he entered the club.

And so on.


It depends on the content I suppose; the two examples above sound kind of generic and could easily be missed. When I got caught using a line from "Soul Kitchen:" maybe the moderator was a Jim Morrison/Doors fan. It's not their best-known song but not the most obscure either. (Patti Smith covered it too much later.) Perhaps the fact that it was in italics didn't help me either.
Twisted_Skald
Chatterbox Blonde- Rumps Mystical Bartender
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Now I might be the biggest goose, but if lyrics were used sparingly in a submission, can you alter a story while it's pending review or do you need to wait for it to be rejected for using lyrics and THEN edit it?
Whatever was posted is always meant in love and respect never to offend.
I'm also highly likely to have posted this from a phone so there may be typos or odd word changes, auto correct can be a pain.

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curvygalore
Bonnet Flaunter
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Quote by Twisted_Skald
Now I might be the biggest goose, but if lyrics were used sparingly in a submission, can you alter a story while it's pending review or do you need to wait for it to be rejected for using lyrics and THEN edit it?


You could request for the story to be sent back to you so could edit it and resubmit. smile
Twisted_Skald
Chatterbox Blonde- Rumps Mystical Bartender
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Now I just need to find where that is on the mobile version and hope it works.
Whatever was posted is always meant in love and respect never to offend.
I'm also highly likely to have posted this from a phone so there may be typos or odd word changes, auto correct can be a pain.

I've been listening to my kinky pencil here's my current work

My current Competition entry is here
A Cure For Stagefright

I put a little banner in here, it might change. I'm still messing about with it.
curvygalore
Bonnet Flaunter
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Quote by Twisted_Skald
Now I just need to find where that is on the mobile version and hope it works.


I'll do it for you now, if that's easier? smile
CarltonStJames
...
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The intro of a story I'm editing currently makes reference to the main character singing along to a song of which I only mention the title and the artist. I also state that a knocking on the door overshadowed the vocals and I mention the singer's name. I'm currently wondering if that will cause any issues.

My last published story: Good For Nothing

Guest
Lurker
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Quote by CarltonStJames
The intro of a story I'm editing currently makes reference to the main character singing along to a song of which I only mention the title and the artist. I also state that a knocking on the door overshadowed the vocals and I mention the singer's name. I'm currently wondering if that will cause any issues.


you should be good on all that. i'm doubtful that a copyright holder (artist, record company, publishing company, etc) would pursue anyone here even for using snippets of a song lyric in passing in a story, but the artist and song title are definitely not copyright protected.
WannabeWordsmith
Writius Eroticus
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Quote by jjf68
i'm doubtful that a copyright holder (artist, record company, publishing company, etc) would pursue anyone here even for using snippets of a song lyric in passing in a story


While that may be true, we have a zero tolerance stance on plagiarism of other literary content here, so it seems in keeping to extend that to "plagiarising" song lyrics in stories. Plus, in the unlikely event that somebody does take umbrage to their use and lawyers-up, the site doesn't have the resources to fight it. It's safer for the site owner to adopt a zero policy on lyrics too.

Common phrases are usually exempted. I'd like to see Lionel Ritchie claim he owns the copyright on the line "I love you" from Hello, for example smile

Song titles and artists are generally fine as long as they're not fanfic.

Please browse my digital bookshelf. In this collection, you can find 109 full stories, 10 micro-stories, and 2 poems with the following features:


* 29 Editor's Picks, 72 Recommended Reads.
* 15 competition podium places, 9 other times in the top ten.
* 21 collaborations.
* A whole heap of often filthy, tense, hot sex.