Plot or mood?

I was listening to Conner Habib talking on a podcast last night.

https://connerhabib.com/tag/joy-williams/

I've never read her but intend to do so now.

Of course, everyone who comes to the craft has unique ambitions, differ in what they want to achieve.

Many readers probably enjoy the intricacies of a good plot, don't want prose as art.

And I know, I know  —an intriguing plot full of atmosphere.

Everyone, readers and writers, feel free to add your own remarks below about style and plot.

Mood all day long, Luca! I'm more of a feeler than a thinker. I love a read that's a full sensory wonderland. You and WannabeWordsmith come to mind when I think of stories like that. 

The mood to begin with… but and intriguing plot will hold my attention… it is a feat to hold a goddess’ attention. 😘

Quote by KimmiBeGood

Mood all day long, Luca! I'm more of a feeler than a thinker. I love a read that's a full sensory wonderland. You and WannabeWordsmith come to mind when I think of stories like that. 

Quote by LucaByDesign

I was listening to Conner Habib talking on a podcast last night.

 As well as being a porn actor, he is an engaging conversationalist and also teaches writing workshops.

On the show, he was waxing lyrical about the novelist Joy Williams.

I've posted a link to the short essay he has written on her (below).

https://connerhabib.com/tag/joy-williams/

I've never read her but intend to do so now.

What I found interesting was what he had to say about plot, mood, and dialogue.

I am rehashing from memory now.

In dialogue, people do not respond to what is said to them; they reply with the thoughts their interlocutor's words have elicited in them.

He says dialogue should be oblique, somehow off the mark.

As to plots.

For the literary-inclined writer, plotting a storyline is what you do to allow your unique prose style to flourish. Events that move a plot along are incidental, mere posts to attach the threads of your prose to as you trace and enwind your way.

He is talking about "mood" in writing. He is talking about the kind of writing I like to think I practise.

Of course, everyone who comes to the craft has unique ambitions, differ in what they want to achieve.

Many readers probably enjoy the intricacies of a good plot, don't want prose as art.

Hence, the posting of this question here on lush.

What do you prefer as a reader/writer: Mood or plot?

And I know, I know  —an intriguing plot full of atmosphere.

Everyone, readers and writers, feel free to add your own remarks below about style and plot.

Another element: the setting. When and where is this happening? I usually use times and places I know myself, because I know how people thought and acted there. I wouldn't set a story in France because I have no first-hand knowledge of it. I had trouble even with Los Angeles, because it's been years since I've been there.

They need to feed off each other to some degree. The mood you set has to fit with the plot (you're not going to do a spooky mood for a rom-com), but the plot also generates the mood to some degree. I write fantasy and horror primarily nowadays and how you portray things like magic, monsters, the supernatural in the story helps you build mood in those genres. Holds for erotica, too, based on my years of writing that. In the end, both need to be part of your writing as you build a story. A disjoint between mood and plot will kill a story as surely as anything.

Quote by NewLushSeeker

you're not going to do a spooky mood for a rom-com

Hehe, unless you're Edgar Wright doing a RomComZom like Shaun Of The Dead

But yeah, very interesting question, Luca. I love mood and setting to help drive the realism and insert the characters in it. Usually, mood or a situation comes first for me. Then I figure the plot out as I go.

As for dialogue, it's work in progress. I find it difficult. Oblique dialogue is something I'm gonna have to embrace to help sell better characters. Off the top of my head:

She eyed me over the coffee mug. "What time are you coming home?"

Now, with that dialogue opener, the boring, direct answer is:

"Midnight."

Better options include:

"Jesus, Carrie! You checking up on me?"

And:

I shook my head in disbelief. "Elle was right. You don't trust me."

Not sure that's truly a good example of oblique dialogue but hey. Both those options add conflict and intrigue and a little bit of spark. So I'm trying to incorporate more of that stuff, but man it's hard work. 

And thanks for the shout out, Kimmi. Means a lot that people are touched by what I write.

I like to think I have oblique dialogue down to a fine art.

The plot/mood thing is a pain in my side. I'm drawn to situations and characters (not exactly mood, but close enough), and I struggle to come up with a reasonable plot, because plots don't interest me as much. Who plots DO interest is readers and publishers, so I have been forcing myself to write out the plot, in caps, beforehand, to assure myself the thing really is going somewhere. I give myself permission to change the plot if I come up with something better, but I've got to write that down too. I'm forcing myself to choose plot over mood. I won't even BEGIN anymore until I've got a plot. It's frustrating, but I need to address my weaknesses.

Quote by Ensorceled

I like to think I have oblique dialogue down to a fine art.

The plot/mood thing is a pain in my side. I'm drawn to situations and characters (not exactly mood, but close enough), and I struggle to come up with a reasonable plot, because plots don't interest me as much. Who plots DO interest is readers and publishers, so I have been forcing myself to write out the plot, in caps, beforehand, to assure myself the thing really is going somewhere. I give myself permission to change the plot if I come up with something better, but I've got to write that down too. I'm forcing myself to choose plot over mood. I won't even BEGIN anymore until I've got a plot. It's frustrating, but I need to address my weaknesses.

Max Reede: My teacher tells me beauty is on the inside.

Fletcher: That's just something ugly people say.

Quote by LakeShoreLimited

Quote by Ensorceled

I like to think I have oblique dialogue down to a fine art.

The plot/mood thing is a pain in my side. I'm drawn to situations and characters (not exactly mood, but close enough), and I struggle to come up with a reasonable plot, because plots don't interest me as much. Who plots DO interest is readers and publishers, so I have been forcing myself to write out the plot, in caps, beforehand, to assure myself the thing really is going somewhere. I give myself permission to change the plot if I come up with something better, but I've got to write that down too. I'm forcing myself to choose plot over mood. I won't even BEGIN anymore until I've got a plot. It's frustrating, but I need to address my weaknesses.

I think most dialogue - let's say conversation - among people has to be a bit oblique, in both fiction and the real world, or we'd be like Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar. An extreme example, but instructive anyway:

Max Reede: My teacher tells me beauty is on the inside.

Fletcher: That's just something ugly people say.

Quote by Ensorceled

Quote by LakeShoreLimited

Quote by Ensorceled

I like to think I have oblique dialogue down to a fine art.

The plot/mood thing is a pain in my side. I'm drawn to situations and characters (not exactly mood, but close enough), and I struggle to come up with a reasonable plot, because plots don't interest me as much. Who plots DO interest is readers and publishers, so I have been forcing myself to write out the plot, in caps, beforehand, to assure myself the thing really is going somewhere. I give myself permission to change the plot if I come up with something better, but I've got to write that down too. I'm forcing myself to choose plot over mood. I won't even BEGIN anymore until I've got a plot. It's frustrating, but I need to address my weaknesses.

I think most dialogue - let's say conversation - among people has to be a bit oblique, in both fiction and the real world, or we'd be like Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar. An extreme example, but instructive anyway:

Max Reede: My teacher tells me beauty is on the inside.

Fletcher: That's just something ugly people say.

I agree. Real life dialogue has so many false starts and assumptions and misunderstandings and evasions. I'd think a transcript of real life would be nearly unreadable. Trying to ape those conventions ends up sounding kinda stylized (think Elmore Leonard or David Mamet) than realistic, but I usually appreciate the attempt. Logical, linear conversations that go from A to B to C always sound stilted to me. 

Quote by Ensorceled

Quote by LakeShoreLimited

Quote by Ensorceled

I like to think I have oblique dialogue down to a fine art. :)

The plot/mood thing is a pain in my side. I'm drawn to situations and characters (not exactly mood, but close enough), and I struggle to come up with a reasonable plot, because plots don't interest me as much. Who plots DO interest is readers and publishers, so I have been forcing myself to write out the plot, in caps, beforehand, to assure myself the thing really is going somewhere. I give myself permission to change the plot if I come up with something better, but I've got to write that down too. I'm forcing myself to choose plot over mood. I won't even BEGIN anymore until I've got a plot. It's frustrating, but I need to address my weaknesses.

I think most dialogue - let's say conversation - among people has to be a bit oblique, in both fiction and the real world, or we'd be like Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar. An extreme example, but instructive anyway:

Max Reede: My teacher tells me beauty is on the inside.

Fletcher: That's just something ugly people say.

I agree. Real life dialogue has so many false starts and assumptions and misunderstandings and evasions. I'd think a transcript of real life would be nearly unreadable. Trying to ape those conventions ends up sounding kinda stylized (think Elmore Leonard or David Mamet) than realistic, but I usually appreciate the attempt. Logical, linear conversations that go from A to B to C always sound stilted to me. 

I've seen some of those documentaries that Frederick Wiseman did - he'd film rather long stretches of real life dialogue at various institutions. ("High School" was one of his early ones.) It's true that I was listening, not reading a transcript, but it seemed that most of the people shown were relatively articulate. Of course, he did edit his movies, but he would let people go on for several minutes if I remember correctly. Unfortunately, I can only find fragments of them on-line and it has been a long time since I've seen any of them. 

Writing dialogue as we attempt to do has to walk a fine line between being shaped by us and also seeming realistic. I can't explain how to do it, but I know it when I see it. By the way, the one television version of a David Mamet play (Glengarry Glen Ross) that I've seen didn't seem that stilted to me.