I hope this is the proper place to post this. If not, so sorry.
I - like so many of us here on Lush as authors want to improve on our writing skills. I mean, we want to get better, right? At least I know I do, so my question is this…
When I first started out on Lush, I used to use italics for speaking parts in my stories, and then it wasn't acceptable. At first I didn't like it, however now I look back at my old stories and it kind of irritates me. (I plan on fixing them all.)
I also used to do my speaking parts in lines such as
“Mm, I love when you submit to me, you filthy wee fucker.”
“Oh Mistress, you make this sub the happiest when you talk to me like that.”
“I know what you like; it’s why I own you.”
However when I read proper books, I notice they don’t speak like that. It’s in paragraphs. Such as…
“Mm, I love when you submit to me, you filthy wee fucker,” I coo softly, pulling your hair slightly. “Oh Mistress, you make this sub the happiest when you talk like that.” You whimper, looking up at me. “I know what you like; it’s why I own you,” smiling, I kiss your lips.
And, so I started writing my stories like this. I actually sort of like the second way. Some might say it looks ‘to busy’ so I’m wondering, which is actually the proper Lush way? Or does it even matter? Is it at the author’s discretion?
I haven’t had any stories fail because of this, but I do want to know what the mods think. I also would like to know what everyone thinks, to which they might like better, and which is easier to read.
I hope I can get some answers, I’m rather curious to know what everyone thinks.
Quote by Poppet I hope this is the proper place to post this. If not, so sorry.
I - like so many of us here on Lush as authors want to improve on our writing skills. I mean, we want to get better, right? At least I know I do, so my question is this…
When I first started out on Lush, I used to use italics for speaking parts in my stories, and then it wasn't acceptable. At first I didn't like it, however now I look back at my old stories and it kind of irritates me. (I plan on fixing them all.)
I also used to do my speaking parts in lines such as
“Mm, I love when you submit to me, you wee filthy fucker.”
“Oh Mistress, you make this sub the happiest when you talk to me like that.”
“I know what you like; it’s why I own you.”
However when I read proper books, I notice they don’t speak like that. It’s in paragraphs. Such as…
“Mm, I love when you submit to me, you wee filthy fucker,” I coo softly, pulling your hair slightly. “Oh Mistress, you make this sub the happiest when you talk like that.” You whimper, looking up at me. “I know what you like; it’s why I own you,” smiling, I kiss your lips.
And, so I started writing my stories like this. I actually sort of like the second way. Some might say it looks ‘to busy’ so I’m wondering, which is actually the proper Lush way? Or does it even matter? Is it at the author’s discretion?
I haven’t had any stories fail because of this, but I do want to know what the mods think. I also would like to know what everyone thinks, to which they might like better, and which is easier to read.
I hope I can get some answers, I’m rather curious to know what everyone thinks.
In my opinion, both of those styles are fine. It's good to mix it up a bit. You can move a story along faster without "he said, she said", and allow your reader to be caught in the conversation.
However,you can enrich the story and build detail by allowing your reader to see perhaps a bigger picture, or a smaller one by showing them what is happening by adding emotion and "colour" through your descriptions.
When I am helping an author with their work, and they rely on one style more heavily, I suggest that they try adding in a few instances of the other style.
A good writer can use a mix of those styles to keep the story flowing, and keep the reader interested. Use them as tools to focus your reader on the details surrounding, or in, your characters, and to put focus on the words within conversation.
It's the same with poetry. I ask the author that I'm helping where they want impact and emphasis, or where they want the words to run or slide together. I think a lot of knowing which style to use, and where, comes down to practice and intuition.
There is no real "Lush way". Do as you see fit as the author, and develop your own style based on what you want your readers to focus on in that part of the story.
Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet. *** ********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
I'm pretty sure it's at the author's discretion. Writing tact can be so subjective sometimes. Some people type in quotes when someone is thinking something in their heads and not out loud, while others may convey the same thing by italicizing. I say do what feels natural for you. There's really no right or wrong way when it comes to things like this. Some ways may be more popular or utilized more often, but that doesn't make it right or wrong, per se.
Just my two cents worth, but when you combine two characters talking in the same paragraph, it can easily confuse the reader as to who is saying what, hence the breaking up of character's dialogues into paragraphs for each person speaking. While grammatically there may be nothing wrong, there are principles of rhetoric designed to make it easier to communicate clearly to people other than the original writer.
Quote by yourmisterdark Just my two cents worth, but when you combine two characters talking in the same paragraph, it can easily confuse the reader as to who is saying what, hence the breaking up of character's dialogues into paragraphs for each person speaking. While grammatically there may be nothing wrong, there are principles of rhetoric designed to made it easier to communicate clearly to people other than the original writer.
No shit? This fool is like Hemingway, reincarnate.
Quote by Poppet I actually sort of like the second way. Some might say it looks ‘to busy’ so I’m wondering, which is actually the proper Lush way? Or does it even matter? Is it at the author’s discretion?
I haven’t had any stories fail because of this, but I do want to know what the mods think. I also would like to know what everyone thinks, to which they might like better, and which is easier to read.
I hope I can get some answers, I’m rather curious to know what everyone thinks.
We generally return stories to authors and ask them to separate the dialogue when there's more than one speaker in a paragraph. It's mainly for this reason:
Quote by yourmisterdark Just my two cents worth, but when you combine two characters talking in the same paragraph, it can easily confuse the reader as to who is saying what, hence the breaking up of character's dialogues into paragraphs for each person speaking. While grammatically there may be nothing wrong, there are principles of rhetoric designed to made it easier to communicate clearly to people other than the original writer.
This is the guide on dialogue presentation that we send to authors:
If you separate each speaker and give them their own paragraph it creates a smoother read and means people are less likely to have to pause to get their head around everything that's going on or try to figure out who's saying what. It also means you can use actions to show which character is speaking (making your scene easier to see and feel) and there's less of a need for dialogue tags. Whether or not you use dialogue tags is completely up to you, though.
If you separate each speaker and give them their own paragraph it creates a smoother read and means people are less likely to have to pause to get their head around everything that's going on or try to figure out who's saying what. It also means you can use actions to show which character is speaking (making your scene easier to see and feel) and there's less of a need for dialogue tags. Whether or not you use dialogue tags is completely up to you, though.
It's a good job I'm not a mod any more! I completely missed two speakers in the same paragraph, and only saw the additional detail. I'm blaming the heat and Stupid-Customers-At-Work Syndrome.
Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet. *** ********************************CLICK THE BANNERS TO BUY THESE WILLY-STIFFENING BOOKS!********************************
It's a good job I'm not a mod any more! I completely missed two speakers in the same paragraph, and only saw the additional detail. I'm blaming the heat and Stupid-Customers-At-Work Syndrome.
LOL. I assumed you must have missed that part because I know you would have mentioned it if you'd seen it there.
Losing the italic formatting for all of the dialogue is also a good move as we try to encourage authors to use it for emphasis instead.
The capitalisation of whole words in dialogue not only looks a bit out of place but can be distracting when used to excess.
The key thing is that the reader knows what is going on without thinking about it. You want them to access the story, be immersed by it, not flicking back and forth trying to figure out who said what or who did what. For example, if you're writing a lesbian scene, you can't use 'she said' for extended conversations. However, if you give your characters distinctive voices / behaviour, you can dispense with almost all indications of blah said / did this as it becomes obvious to the reader without conscious thought.
Reading on a screen is much more difficult for the eye than reading a book or a magazine. I deliberately write shorter, choppier paragraphs when I know that it's going to be read on a screen.
Italics can be effective for 'zooming inside the thoughts' of a character during the action.
Quote by Jack_42 I suppose if you wrote stories the way James Joyce did you'd get banned on Lush. Not sure how Oscar Wilde would have viewed Joyce's stuff.
Not simply James Joyce, but some Henry Miller, William Burroughs, Thomas Pynchon and others. They were experimenters with writing who intentionally wrote to obfuscate and try to teach a new way of reading. Stream of conscious writing does not lend itself well to actual storytelling which most erotica is.
The written word is only suggestive by it's content. Formatting puts in the
OOOh, and Aaah, and Hey! and Whoa! that voice inflection
brings
to
bear.
That being said, probably unnecessarily so, with all you 'Lush smarties', but on to the specific question - All must be viewed from the eye of the reader. Formatting should bring together things that should be conceptualized or imaged as belonging together, and make clear distinctions where they are appropriate. In our own minds we are the ones who conjoin what otherwise would be unconnected. We must realize that we are totally submissive in relation to the mind of the reader, and can't dominate.
As a writer, you plunge into the mind of the reader and by the suggestion of YOUR ideas, spoon feed pr-established relationships. If your ideas are scattered, no amount of formatting will help. If your ideas (in your verse) are poorly organized - then the reader can't see in them the relationships that you would like to convey.
So - if the conversation interaction reveals by the words the "back and forth", dividing with paragraphs can make it choppier than you may like. If the reader is lost without the separation, then divide.
Also for example, an argument would be better served by used of paragraphs, where each voice is a slap against the other (pure poetry - Aaaaaaagh, more coffee). When you Use Italics, Bold (or parenthesis) you can bring a certain amount of emphasis or separation, without going to a new paragraph.
I guess mine is understandable, I guess, because the last half dozen of mine have been one paragraph. My Fuck Doll series is like this. I won't be changing it, that will look inconsistent, however I'll keep it in mind when writing other stories from now on. I hope this is okay?
Quote by Lisa We generally return stories to authors and ask them to separate the dialogue when there's more than one speaker in a paragraph. It's mainly for this reason:
Quote by Liz Losing the italic formatting for all of the dialogue is also a good move as we try to encourage authors to use it for emphasis instead.
The capitalisation of whole words in dialogue not only looks a bit out of place but can be distracting when used to excess.
Example:
"Oh, John, your cock is FUCKING HUGE!"
Changed to
"Oh, John, your cock is fucking huge!"
I think this is a much better approach
Yes, I dislike when PEOPLE YELL in their stories. So, I think losing italics in speaking parts to enhance other parts is awesome. I disliked it at first, but now that I'm used to not having italics they rather bug me. Funny how that works, eh?
Quote by yourmisterdark Just my two cents worth, but when you combine two characters talking in the same paragraph, it can easily confuse the reader as to who is saying what, hence the breaking up of character's dialogues into paragraphs for each person speaking. While grammatically there may be nothing wrong, there are principles of rhetoric designed to make it easier to communicate clearly to people other than the original writer.
Yes, I totally get that. When you're reading an actual book with two characters and they are speaking, you don't confused though, right? I don't, that's why I thought I'd start doing mine like this.
I've never had an issue with one of my readers claiming to be confused. But, that's why I wanted to know what people thought. Thank you for yours.
Yes, I totally get that. When you're reading an actual book with two characters and they are speaking, you don't confused though, right? I don't, that's why I thought I'd start doing mine like this.
I've never had an issue with one of my readers claiming to be confused. But, that's why I wanted to know what people thought. Thank you for yours.
I've never seen a published hardcopy book that didn't break the characters' dialgogue into separate paragraphs. Can you give me an example where that occurs?
Not simply James Joyce, but some Henry Miller, William Burroughs, Thomas Pynchon and others. They were experimenters with writing who intentionally wrote to obfuscate and try to teach a new way of reading. Stream of conscious writing does not lend itself well to actual storytelling which most erotica is.
Joyce's material didn't touch on the erotic or Henry Miller? Obfuscate? I don't think the idea was to confuse the reader so much as depict the way thought patterns work. Most novels are story telling (or are you saying Ulysses doesn't tell a story or Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man ) stream of consciousness notwithstanding? There is also an argument that some erotica is not so much telling a story as depicting a function or scene. Anyway my point was ignored with this digression into the literary style lesson you decided to go into.
Standard convention is that, in fiction, there should not be two quotes from two different characters in the same paragraph, which means that when a different person starts speaking, it should always start a new paragraph. So, \"How much do you want it," she teased. "Very much please," he begged.\ is incorrect, and, in my opinion, confusing. It should be spaced:
"How much do you want it?" she teased.
"Very much please," he begged.
Since it's difficult to indent on the internet, I like to put a new line between line breaks, like this:
"How much do you want it?" she teased.
"Very much please," he begged.
I think more white space makes it easier to read and less confusing.
It's a good job I'm not a mod any more! I completely missed two speakers in the same paragraph, and only saw the additional detail. I'm blaming the heat and Stupid-Customers-At-Work Syndrome. 
