Editing Caution

Quote by sprite
i got all my EPs cause i have a cunt, and i send the mods nude photos every time i post a new story.

xoxo
talentless hack of a writer with a vagina.

Quote by sprite
i got all my EPs cause i have a cunt, and i send the mods nude photos every time i post a new story.

xoxo
talentless hack of a writer with a vagina.

Quote by marktreble


More evidence to support my shout-out to Sprite as my favorite mod.

Actually, almost all of the mods are super. A few need some remedial education in writing norms and practices; they are rare. Without the difficult and selfless work of the mods there would be no lush. I try to thank each mod for her/his/its work. Sometimes I forget. If you reviewed my story and did not get a thank-you, you are probably due an apology. Unless you were one of the few needing remedial etc.

I've pointed out potential issues in stories to mods. Where appropriate I have received excellent advice.

I write because I want to tell a story. If I never see an RR, EP or EIEIO I do not care. I've edited perhaps a thousand or more works from one-pagers to lengthy novels. I asked that I not be credited. Where there has been a rewrite, a credit is due.

If there is an award for the "most highjacked thread in lush history" this surely has to be a nominee. We've been through hurt feelings, accusations, impenetrable bloviation, sexism, vagina love, and still no mention of Global Warming. Well, I think Global Warming is entirely attributable to vagina love. Or not.

Quote by Dani


What's the problem now? Something about you not having a vagina?

Quote by bethalia


I have to say, MK, that at least you're not calling anyone a 'shit-head boob' or an 'asshole.' But I also understand (since you've evolved beyond Forum Guru to Internet Philosopher) that you also have a need to be dismissive of these issues, and, like Liz, attack rather than consider.

I started this thread with the simple purpose of giving a heads-up to would-be editors. To let them know that contributing in that way is great, but that some writers just won't (or don't understand the need to) acknowledge when another person contributes hours and effort to their project: a way to be forewarned that considerable effort may go unthanked and unacknowledged. (That simple purpose is what you've decided to call a 'public tantrum.')

But I hope the thread also has the effect of raising consciousness with writers that someone else putting great effort into your work is something to be acknowledged and thanked.

I can't speak to whether or not writers at Lush generally do or don't extend that courtesy. I hope my experience was the exception rather than the rule. But you are wrong about the industry generally. As I mentioned to another poster in another response, every writer opens or concludes their writing with acknowledgements of those who contributed to their work, especially editors.

So to the extent that all this makes writers (apparently including you) aware of basic courtesies then the effort is worthwhile.

Perhaps it's just my greatly advanced age. I really hesitate to get into a 'kids these days' type rant. But I guess you live long enough and you come to recognize and appreciate when someone does you a kindness and expends effort, talent, and skill on your behalf, and you understand that it needs to be thanked. Do 'kids these days' just not understand that basic fact of life?

Issues of fairness on the site are not among those I raised. Others did so. But to the extent that others bought them up then, yes, I've noticed similar issues. As I've stated several times in these posts: perhaps rather than attacking as a knee-jerk defensive reaction it might be a good idea to consider the criticisms with an open mind. But I'm disappointed that from the reactions this thread has gotten from the powers that be (you, Liz) that open minds are in short supply, and that attacking the messengers is the response (and that, FYI, is the definition of 'thin-skinned').

I also see you decided to make disparaging my writing (whether you've read any or not - and even if you'd had I understand you would still attack and disparage) a part of your attack. Really? That sort of thing is terribly childish and insecure.

Quote by overmykneenow


The system of RRs is imperfect but has improved a lot since it was introduced and has moved on from simply being a form of promotion for mods and their author friends.

Quote by LadyX


It never was like that, but if there's one thing I've figured out over the years here, is that some people seem to thrive off a "this site and it's cronies only give recognition to each other" narrative, and they push it publicly for dramatic effect (even if it's ostensibly in an offhanded, 'just throwing it out there' manner, because what good does it do to suspect some sort of cliquish hegemony if you can't capitalize on it and start an argument with it?). There's simply not enough dramatic payoff involved to simply think about it, or talk privately.

And you're right, it's hard to keep people from forming an opinion that favoritism exists. Partially because people periodically assert it publicly (with the aforementioned expectation of a drawn-out debate over it), and because it gives people something to feel aggrieved and victimized about, with the added perk of feeling like some truth-teller, staring clearly through the bullshit. Like drama, some people need that as well, and yet others appear to really need both. As with others before, this statement too comes from a lot of observation.

Quote by Magical_felix


With the evidence presented here in this thread, are you really certain of that? Are you really? Are you really certain he does not have a vagina? I know I'm not entirely convinced.

Quote by Katje
This has been quite an interesting thread to read.

Speaking not only as a story moderator here, but as an author ... Accolades are neither sought after, not required on the site for editorial effort. Those of us who spent countless hours moderating, editing and tweaking stories don't shine a great big neon sign saying "Look! I did that! They need to thank me!"

Are thanks appreciated? Of course. Unbeknownst to you, dear OP, we even have a private thread where we'll share the thank-you notes we get from writers who've we've both verified and edited for. We love that thread. And sadly, it's dusty right now from disuse. But do you see us whining about it? Or "giving a heads-up to would-be editors", warning them of the perils of anonymity? No.

We edit, tweak, assist, advise and help the writers here voluntarily. Without getting thanks, without getting acknowledgement. We do it because it brings us joy, and because we LIKE what we DO.

For me, that's enough. Knowing the little thrill I get, even as a mod, when my stories pass muster and get posted to the front page ... Just knowing I give that thrill to someone else is amazing. And I love getting even just a simple "thank you!" in response.

We're more than aware, as writers ourselves, that a story has a great amount of effort put into it, and behind it.

I do personally tag in an acknowledgement when someone helps with a story, but it's far from required. Some people don't even think to do that. Not everyone shares the same thought process.

As one of the "kids these days", I'm offended that someone of your "greatly advanced age" would fall prey to bickering and picking.

I'm far from thin-skinned, but seeing your argument from both sides of the keyboard, I find it invalid. I, personally, am not disparaging you, or your writings, but can you try and see things from the other side? Even a little? Because it certainly doesn't look like it from my point of view.

Quote by MadMartigan


How terribly "sexist" of you.

Why does public acknowledgement mean so much to you? if that's what you want, you picked the wrong profession or hobby. Publishing a piece in the real world is a notoriously difficult and painful process.

That's the reality for even the most well known authors who've gotten countless rejection slips of their work being shit or just not up to snuff.

What do you want exactly? To have LUSH mods bow down on their knees to your writing?

We don't have RR pow-wows or anything. There is, however, a panel that decides on EPs. RRs are entirely contingent upon each individual moderator and if they think a story is worthy of said RR.

We don't doll them out like candy. That would defeat the purpose.

Do you even fully understand what an RR is? It's one tiny step below EP. And EPs are EXCEPTIONAL stories. They have no technical errors, have well rounded character, well rounded plot, and show a very good skill at erotica crafting. An RR is just below that in that it may have multiple technical errors.

It's like the NFL. EPs are stud, elite WRs like Calvin Johnson. RRs are steady, #1 WRs like Torrey Smith.

Instead of bashing the system, look deep into your own stories at what is missing. Every writer misses at least something.

I personally have awarded a grand total of 3 RRs. And I've been a mod for 6-7 months. Often times, I HEAVILY edit you guy's and gal's stories. Over and over again. Most times, that takes you out of the RR running unless the story content itself moves me.


And back to this "vagina" designation. In my opinion, this is a thinly veiled, snide remark against the high quality of female writers we have. And that's just messed up.

Be better writer if not having an RR pisses you off so much. Don't insult everyone because your ego hasn't been stroked.

For the record, the reason so many mods have so many RRs, is because we recruit the BEST! We don't just recruit folks off the streets to mod.

And, I guess I'm some dickless wonder as well since my very first story on this site was awarded an RR.

I AM a dude btw.

And what makes you even think all the females on here that say they are females, are actually females?

They may not be.

Quote by Liz
And here I thought you were going to come in here and apologise to 'Possibly' for overreacting.

All this because an author forgot to put your name on the bottom of a story? How old are you?

Quote by Coco
This thread is the reason why I'll only ask those that I'm am closest to to review my stories. They understand how much I appreciate their efforts and don't require that I acknowledge them publicly. I appreciate their support of my writing and I do the same for them.

Quote by dpw

Oh this was bumping along so nicely until this post.
Childish and churlish! Well well! I really don't believe I'm reading this correctly.
You are a man of years, so am I. So what? If you want to attack a guy who has responded to you like a gentleman, as he always does, then you want to grow up.
No, I'm not a mod. Yes I am a Forum Guru, as will you be after so many Forum posts. Yes I've had my run ins with mods in the forums, so what? Some may dislike me and others happen to like me, although I do question the soundness of their mind.
What are you after? I do it because I enjoy spending hours improving a story. It means I don't have to write my own because I hate writing.
I don't want to be acknowledged! A pm thanks is enough.
I don't give a rat's ass about a RR or an EP. All I want is for one person to read my crap and go and beat his meat (that sounds so sexist but you know what I meam).
If you are so good then it's your duty to help others and duty doesn't require acknowledgement.

Quote by bethalia


Thank you for a reasonable civil couple of posts, Katje.

Quote by Dani


You claim your original post was done as a warning to those that edit stories as a favor. But dude, really? Telling people they may not always be acknowledged for the things they do is like putting a 'Caution! Wet floor!' sign in the middle of the ocean. You edited a story, you got annoyed that you weren't mentioned, and you made a thread knowing the author would see it in order to shame them into submission. Mission accomplished. You wanted to rile people up. You wanted people to speak ill of Possibly and others who have the audacity not to publicly acknowledge those who help them edit their submissions. Please don't insult our intelligence by claiming otherwise.

You accuse others of disparaging you, insulting you, and dismissing your points, but you've done the same. You say we haven't acknowledged any of your theories, yet you dismiss all of our attempts to reason with you all while questioning our intelligence. You say one thing, we present you with facts as to why that may not be the case. Calling a spade a spade is not the same as dismissing you. Perhaps you're the one that needs to develop a thicker skin.

What's your end goal? If you're interested in figuring out how/why RR's and other such rewards are given, why not just ask instead of accuse? You're all fired up, and it's counterproductive. Don't take the offensive approach, and people won't feel the need to get defensive.

The problem isn't in you bringing these issues up, it's your tact (or lack thereof) in doing so. You started this thread with a chip on your shoulder. Although this thread has changed directions, the chip remains on your shoulder, and is reflected in the way you post.

Quote by bethalia
BTW - I wanted to thank those who have gotten in touch via PM with expressions of support.

I appreciate that with the people who run the site, and who are most actively involved, engaging in throwing insults and name calling and flaming that folks don't necessarily want to stick their heads up on a public board.

But I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Quote by bethalia
BTW - I wanted to thank those who have gotten in touch via PM with expressions of support.

I appreciate that with the people who run the site, and who are most actively involved, engaging in throwing insults and name calling and flaming that folks don't necessarily want to stick their heads up on a public board.

But I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Quote by bethalia
I understand the need to ascribe all sorts of dastardly motivations to me. It's a way to undermine me and to avoid addressing the issues that others have raised in this thread. What else is new?

Quote by Dani
What's your end goal?

Quote by Liz


I'm sure you've been absolutely swamped with PM's.

A decent person would have held their hands up by now and just apologised.

Quote by Possibly



Thank you for your 'public board' support Liz.

Quote by sprite


i'm going to have her fired too. i keep telling them, if you're nice to people, then it makes me look bad.

Quote by naughtynurse
I have't responded till now. But I'll add my two cents.

So you weren't thanked initially in the manner you thought best. So what? Put your big boy pants on and deal. I'm sure its not the first time someone hasn't responded exactly how you thought they should. Are you always this overbearing?

Possibly feel free to send me what ever you need an edit from in the future instead of this guy. That way you don't have to worry about him getting upset about the way choose to thank him. I don't expect any sort of mention in a story at all. I've helped hundreds of writers, and while I felt appreciated when I received a thank you, my real thanks came when those stories were well received.

As far as warning would be editors, I have to ask why? Most of the people I know who are willing to help, don't do it for the glory, or the footnote. They do it to help that person write a better story.


I also had not read one of the OP's stories. I thought I'd rectify that before I posted. I don't think the mods were missing anything by not giving him an RR.

Quote by RumpleForeskin
and don't forget to say 'please' and 'thank you'.

Quote by naughtynurse


If I'm nice too can I please get to see your office?

Quote by sprite


you, my love, have a free pass, anytime you wish

Quote by 1LovelyKinkyKitsune


Yes, I think that is a very important element, sometimes manners make a huge difference.
I know people forget at times but people are funny about credit where it is due in their work and efforts, no matter how small or great: photographers, artists, etc... some require and expect that, and others just appreciate it. This is nothing new. Some people do not do something for nothing or they expect acknowledgement at least. People are different. I may not be that way, but i know I would not want to feel unappreciated either. It is a good thing to keep in mind and remember.

I do not know the parties involved so I am looking at this as an "in general" rule of thumb thing that people might keep in the back of their minds how this might be expected and wanted, and you might want to ask beforehand so it does not come up with seeming like an insult or hurt feelings later. We are adults who should be able to deal with things, but that is just not always how things go down especially if people are not on the same page. Other places there are lawsuits over these kinds of things and less (I hate all that)... I would not expect credit, if I was the beta or editor- in real life with or without pay, friend or someone else, but that is just me. I WOULD however, be like most people and hope that the person would be gracious and thankful.

Since I know that a person's gratitude is not something that I can dictate and it is not my place~ I have no control over whether someone seems "thankful" enough 'to me' I hesitate sometimes, and sometimes I do it anyway, but I do it without expectation. not everyone is like that. It is something to bear in mind. I also resent the attitude of any expectation, as well, especially if it is not verbalized - and I dislike having expectations of my own. I learned long ago to apply the same principle as loaning or "gift giving" and I do not expect back or I do not do it if I have that prerequisite because I will 9-out-of-10 times be disappointed. I DO try to make a point to give back, even if the other people do not, but that is because I want and choose to.

I DO think it is something good to keep in mind though -(meaning aside for any specific people here in this thread, just generally speaking). It can be a lesson learned and gratitude can be shown in many ways, though sometimes we have to communicate what we want and hopefully [sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't] it will work out for both.