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Why are straight people so phobic?

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since people have no problem ganging up on transgender folk, i thought i'd start a thread about how awful straight people are to those in the LGBTQ+ community. let's start with hate crimes. when was the last time you heard about hate crimes being committed by LGBTQ+ folk against straight people? yet it happens all the time the other way around. most recent example, the woman at Lake Arrowhead murdered for displaying a rainbow flag. straight on gay violence yet again. and should i even attempt to start a list of all the politicians who have created, or tried to create, anti-LGBTQ+ policies? why are straight people so hung up on hating LGBTQ+?

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

It's a little before my time, but when HIV became an issue, it was ignored as a gay disease. no one really cared about finding a cure until it was discovered that it could affect straight folk, too. the overlaying attitude was 'good. maybe it'll kill them all off'.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

The trans community has been dehumanized by the right wing media machine, to scare people into voting Republican.

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personally, i don't hate straight people, or wish them ill. i just want to them leave us the fuck alone and let use live our lives - i mean, not like our gayness is hurting anyone. i'm constantly being lectured about the gay agenda - want to know what the actual gay agenda is? just let us love who we love and stay out of our fucking lives if you can't deal with it.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Quote by Ensorceled

The trans community has been dehumanized by the right wing media machine, to scare people into voting Republican.

yes. and they are being treated like they are things. just pawns. that's how it started in germany, btw. they dehumanized the jews (and gays, as well, btw) so that no one blinked an eye when they started shipping them off to concentration camps.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

see, here's the thing. i fell in love with another woman. we got married. how is that a threat to anyone? to our country? to our way of life? why is it such and issue? and yet, it is. same with trans folk. they identify whom they identify as. how is that a threat to anyone else? how about people just back off and accept them for who they are and stop treating them like freaks? these are real people with real feelings, with dreams, people who want to live their lives, fall in love, be happy. why are people so intent upon denying them these things?

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

I wonder if you'll hear from anyone who actually fits what you're talking about. Ensorceled and I don't. I have been a supporter since the United Church of Canada went through a divisive battle over whether openly gay people could be ordained. To their everlasting credit, the church's General Council voted not to block ordination of gay people and the first openly gay minister (there were others before but not open, though one in my area was a worst kept secret) was ordained shortly thereafter. His husband, also a United Church minister, later become the church's first gay moderator. Sadly, my own congregation came down on the wrong side and that's probably part of why I eventually drifted away to Unitarian Universalism, where I joined a Welcoming congregation (some faiths/denominations also call it Affirming) whose chaplain performed the second same-sex marriage in London (Metropolitan Community Church went first).

Back on topic, straight on LGBTQ+ hate crime is one of the most terrible shames of Western society, though it seems especially strong in the US with some spillover into Canada (we had protests over drag queen storytime here in London, Ontario this year). Since I have been an ally since my teens and tentatively started identifying as bi myself in the past few years, I am really not sure why it sparks such hatred and violence. I am simply not plugged in enough to that segment of society. I think only race inspires as much animosity these days. Part of it may be that as more and more of society supports LGBTQ friendly policies (e.g. a decade after Canada allowed same-sex marriage, something like 70% of Canadians were in favour, not sure of current numbers) the opponents are feeling isolated and besieged in their opinions and are lashing out. But why there are still opponents at all, why people cannot accept people as people without worrying about who they sleep with or how they express their gender, remains a mystery to me. Which means, of course, I am really not sure of what the solutions are beyond taking names and kicking asses when appropriate.

A woman goes shopping in the local mall. But what the heck is she shopping for in that outfit? My Festive Flash comp entry.

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Quote by Seeker4

I wonder if you'll hear from anyone who actually fits what you're talking about. Ensorceled and I don't. I have been a supporter since the United Church of Canada went through a divisive battle over whether openly gay people could be ordained. To their everlasting credit, the church's General Council voted not to block ordination of gay people and the first openly gay minister (there were others before but not open, though one in my area was a worst kept secret) was ordained shortly thereafter. His husband, also a United Church minister, later become the church's first gay moderator. Sadly, my own congregation came down on the wrong side and that's probably part of why I eventually drifted away to Unitarian Universalism, where I joined a Welcoming congregation (some faiths/denominations also call it Affirming) whose chaplain performed the second same-sex marriage in London (Metropolitan Community Church went first).

Back on topic, straight on LGBTQ+ hate crime is one of the most terrible shames of Western society, though it seems especially strong in the US with some spillover into Canada (we had protests over drag queen storytime here in London, Ontario this year). Since I have been an ally since my teens and tentatively started identifying as bi myself in the past few years, I am really not sure why it sparks such hatred and violence. I am simply not plugged in enough to that segment of society. I think only race inspires as much animosity these days. Part of it may be that as more and more of society supports LGBTQ friendly policies (e.g. a decade after Canada allowed same-sex marriage, something like 70% of Canadians were in favour, not sure of current numbers) the opponents are feeling isolated and besieged in their opinions and are lashing out. But why there are still opponents at all, why people cannot accept people as people without worrying about who they sleep with or how they express their gender, remains a mystery to me. Which means, of course, I am really not sure of what the solutions are beyond taking names and kicking asses when appropriate.

when i posted this i expected it to me more of a litmus test than anything else. bit sad about that. i would like to get some honest feedback on the subject and not have it be an echo chamber - maybe some actual real discussion on the subject. and sadly, taking names and kicking asses is not a viable solution, or i'd be out doing it (dressed as Batman, probably). thing is, i've put a lot of energy into trying to change minds in non-confrontational ways, but it usually leaves me frustrated, that is what this thread is about - me being frustrated.

we fairly recently bought a house. it's in a nice hood. we are good neighbors. we keep the place looking nice, we're not loud, we are friendly and helpful (the woman next door is elderly so i usually mow her front lawn when i'm doing ours). couple down the street hate us. have since day one, the only real reason i can think of is that we're lesbians (confirmed by one of our neighbors). it's not a good feeling, although i can't say it's one i'm not used to. i mean, yes, we do a small, non-obtrusive, pride flag during Pride, but we're not in your face about our sexuality - that said, we are open about it. i refuse to let one family dictate if i can kiss my wife or hold her hand in public. no oral sex, though. we keep that stuff inside.

at work, we have a lot of diversity. different backgrounds and cultures, i am fairly certain that some of the women and some of their kids lean towards being gay, but are 'forbidden' to express it among their peers or anyone else, for that matter. it's quite . it does make me sad but i can't/won't push the issue. not my right to out someone.

back to the topic at hand. the backlash is real. for every step forward we take towards acceptance, the fear seems to grow. marriage was a biggie and apparently quite threatening to some people. the trans community starting to become more visible is the same thing. it's not like there are suddenly more trans people - it's just that more people are getting comfortable finally being who they are. not so long ago, drag was pretty much an acceptable thing - now, all of a sudden, there is legislation outlawing it. it's mind-bending, to be honest. how is that even harmful?

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Everyone should treat everyone as they themselves would like to be treated.

If you give out kindness to everyone you come in contact with, you'll, by far, mostly receive kindness in return.

Try to ignore jerks being rude. Do not respond to them. I've worked hard on doing this myself over the last few years.

I do think that most of the aggression and hate aimed at transgender people is politically motivated. The same is true for that aimed at the rest of the LGBTQ community. Rightwing politicians are spewing hate to get the votes of a large undercurrent of bigotry that still exists.

Quote by Buz
Try to ignore jerks being rude. Do not respond to them. I've worked hard on doing this myself over the last few years.

I'm sorry, but ignoring does not work when the jerk is hitting you, pointing their weapon of choice at you, or trying to legislate you out of existence. The kind of people we are talking about aren't just taunting or being rude, they are out for blood, literal or figurative. Ignoring them won't stop them, just give them more space to do damage.

A woman goes shopping in the local mall. But what the heck is she shopping for in that outfit? My Festive Flash comp entry.

Minnie's Merry Mall Christmas

Quote by Seeker4

I'm sorry, but ignoring does not work when the jerk is hitting you, pointing their weapon of choice at you, or trying to legislate you out of existence. The kind of people we are talking about aren't just taunting or being rude, they are out for blood, literal or figurative. Ignoring them won't stop them, just give them more space to do damage.

It is quite okay to defend yourself from violent physical attack.

I have always thought that fear is the root of all hate. So I’ve asked myself what do the haters fear from gays, trans. The only thing I can come up with is straight people fear your numbers will grow, if you are supported, to where one day you will be the majority and straight people will become the minority. No one wants to be in the minority in the U.S. because everyone sees how minorities have been treated throughout history.

Quote by KimmiBeGood

I have always thought that fear is the root of all hate. So I’ve asked myself what do the haters fear from gays, trans. The only thing I can come up with is straight people fear your numbers will grow, if you are supported, to where one day you will be the majority and straight people will become the minority. No one wants to be in the minority in the U.S. because everyone sees how minorities have been treated throughout history.

I think it's more a fear of sex. The people who are getting violent tend to have a view of sexuality that is so narrow and rigid they may not fit into it themselves because sexuality is a broad spectrum and few people are entirely gay or straight at the extreme ends (i.e. for straight people, someone who has never had a same-sex dream or fleeting curiosity about being with a same-sex partner). You might think you're 99% straight, but that 1% still leaves doubt. But instead of accepting their 'sexual deviancy' from that narrow and rigid ideal, they become ashamed of it, which leads to secrecy, denial, and more shame. Instead of dealing with that shame, they start to see gay people as the problem, a threat that could 'trigger' their own 'inner-gayness' and reveal to the world -and even worse, to themselves- their true not entirely straight nature. Trans people are especially dangerous because from a super-straight perspective, it's a sort of deception where "dude looks like a lady... maybe even an attractive lady... but it's really a dude... which makes me gay? Nuh-uh, I'm not gay - my pastor tells me that's not allowed - so I'm going to punch that lady-dude for making me think I might be" ...Yeah, it gets kind of silly when you actually write out the thought process, but I doubt many of them have made the effort.

So basically, blame culture for a strict heteronormativity and demanding conformity to ideals that don't exist in the real world, leading to a huge amount of shame. Celebrate openly LGBT folks who have the courage to live outside of that narrow and rigid (though very dominant) perspective. And condemn the fear and group-think that keeps others locked into it and prevents them from accepting their authentic selves. On the other hand, the greatest cure for prejudice is contact - the more straight conservative people are exposed to gay people in their lives, the more they can learn to challenge their own misconceptions about LGBT and perhaps even learn to love themselves a little more. That's perhaps unfair to LGBT people, since it puts the labor on them, but really the best thing you can do is be out and proud and live your life as you see fit, since you just being you disrupts and creates an alternative to the very narrow and rigid perspective held by homophobes. There is certainly more than one way to experience and express your sexuality.

Don't believe everything that you read.

Here in the UK there is a lot of heated debate regarding gender. I don't hear about a lot of hate/prejudice directed towards gay or lesbian people tbh.

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I'd say a big part comes from conservative religious doctrines, as well as macho culture (as being gay/trans opposes the sex based stereotypes).


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Quote by DanielleX

Here in the UK there is a lot of heated debate regarding gender. I don't hear about a lot of hate/prejudice directed towards gay or lesbian people tbh.

Just because you don't hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This line of thinking enables people to turn a blind eye, because it quickly evolves into "I don't hear about it, must not be a problem."

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Quote by Ironic

You can't control what other people think and feel about you, but you can control what you feel about yourself. Be the best person you can be and show everybody how a good person lives, You'll never be able to force anybody to like you.

I don't think it's about being liked, or even accepted. It's more about not being perceived as less-than because of not being heterosexual or even living within the confines of heteronormativity, and then having those perceptions validated by legislation. Having those perceptions validated leads people to believe that they can disregard another's humanity, and they act accordingly.

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Quote by Ironic

The only perceptions anybody can control are their own. Vote to select legislators to change legislation.

Minority votes can only go so far, that's why ally support is so important. There wouldn't be so much support for the revocation of rights or outright exclusion of non-straight and trans or otherwise gender-queer people if the perception of them being less than human wasn't so supported (and introduced) by law in the first place. Some things are still illegal because they're illegal across the board, but the level of justice depends on how human we view that person, and there has been a systematic dehumanization of queer people happening since before the inception of most established nations and governments.

For example, trans people are killed at a disproportionate rate than their cis-gendered counterparts. Simply for being trans. Yet, statistically, less resources are used to bring their murderers to justice, resulting in many of them going unsolved. And even when it's a hate crime, it's really difficult to get a crime charged as such. The underlying message there is that they're not as worthy of those resources, and because of that underlying message, people act accordingly.

So again, it's not as simple as "Doesn't matter if people don't like you, live your life." When, statistically, when it comes to someone who's viewed as less-than by society, it's often "I don't like this person, and because they're less-than, I can harm this person because I know I'm less likely to face the consequences of doing so."

Collective perceptions matter.

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Quote by Ironic

People can control any efforts they might have in getting allies to help change the laws they think need changing, so your idea along those lines would be positive.

The fact that people need to engage in efforts to receive allies to be perceived as human is a problem, in and of itself. It's dehumanizing to have to brainstorm about ways to get people to view you as human and that you deserve the same rights and protections as anyone else. Such brainstorming wouldn't even be necessary if people's perceptions and legally validated prejudices therein didn't make it so.

And please have a care for the topic at hand, which is exploring why there's so much hate for the LGBTQ+ community, not ways to make one's self more palatable to those who believe they don't deserve the same freedoms and protections as others.

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Quote by Ironic

Maybe, but doing something to correct a problem is better and healthier for somebody than just being upset about the problem. That's why I see your idea that the effort to get allies and change laws is a positive.

Why are people in the LGBTQ+ community perceived as less deserving of the same freedoms and protections as those who aren't a part of that community?

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Quote by Ironic

They do, but the only perceptions under our control are our own.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I got a sense from sprite's posts that she's upset about how the rest of society perceives her life. I think since she can't control society's perceptions, she isn't benefitting from being upset about them. What she can control and do is be a good example of an individual and stop worrying about something she can't control.

People can control any efforts they might have in getting allies to help change the laws they think need changing, so your idea along those lines would be positive.

nope. you got it wrong. i could care less how society perceives me as long as they afford me equal rights and protection and leave me alone to live my life as i see fit, that's the issue here - someone hates me because i'm gay? fine. their issue. someone takes away my rights or threatens me or commits crimes against me because i'm gay? THAT is the issue here. and obviously, since i AM a minority, and the majority seems comfortable in creating laws that take away my rights, it's not as easy as simply voting in people who are more LGBTQ+ friendly. can you imagine living in placees like Florida and Texas and the like and being gay when the folks in power a very vocal about you not being welcome there? you offer a very pollyanna dream of just liking yourself and changing things. i like myself fine and trust me, we (my wife and i) are involved in trying to make changes, but it takes more than two to effect change and a lot of people are very resistant to it.

and it's not always obvious bigotry. what set me off was the discussion of Trans people in sports and the fact that people seem to forget that these are people being discussed, with dreams of their own of playing sports, of being given a chance to do what they love, of BEING treated with dignity and respect and empathy, something i'm not seeing very much of in most of the posts.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Quote by Ironic

I'm glad to read you're trying to improve things. You seem upset or angry about other people's opinions, even though you can't do anything about what they think about other people. I don't think that anger is productive or healthy.

There's lots of information about why trans women should have their own competition category, but it's usually based on the different post-puberty physiological development of males and females. I don't think it's fair to a young female to invest an enormous amount of time and effort to train for a physical sport just so she can place second or third after people whose body is built like a male.

anger is incredibly healthy if channeled properly. anger fuels action. if you're not angry, you're less likely to do something to change things. lots of the legislation that the LGBTQ community has pushed through comes through anger. the stonewall riots, that got the ball rolling, were fueled by anger. indifference is not healthy nor productive. anger is an amazing tool.

and i don't feel that it's fair for a woman-man transgender person to invest an enormous amount of time and effort to train for a physical sport just to be told he can't compete. and what about all those man-to-woman transgendered folk who are nowhere as good as their female counterparts? who don't have the talent to compete and win? you don't hear about them in the news, because it's not as sensational, but THAT is where 99% of transgender athletes fall. i mean, just because someone is built like a male, you think they can beat out someone like Biles, or Ledecki, or Cohen?

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Quote by Chryses

I will tell you this because it seems no one else will.

 

The best you can hope for in your lifetime is there will be some improvement in the social acceptance of non-heterosexuals. This beneficial change will be greater in some locales and less in others.

 

Many years ago, the German physicist Max Planck declared that science advances one funeral at a time. The (grand)father of quantum physics noted, “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”

 

Using the above as a guideline, Race is an example of how slowly and how quickly social change takes. The modern effort to change race relations started in Brown v Board, fifteen years before the Stonewall Riot, and no one considers that issue resolved.

 

Adults have, by and large, learned how to live with the society they have grown up in. Few welcome rapid changes, and it is unwise to expect them to update their POVs any more rapidly than they must. When people feel they are being pushed too far or too fast from their norms, those people will fight to preserve what they are familiar and comfortable with. Ref here your comment in re backlash. You recognize those social norms by acknowledging it is not your place to out someone.

 

Referring back to Prof. Planck, I make no recommendations, for my social milieu is sufficiently different from yours for the two to be incommensurate.

edited

i am okay with change being slow. that is the nature of the beast. what i am not okay with is our elected officials using their power to represent the far right minority to enact laws that actively harm the people they are supposed to represent, as well as foster an atmosphere where hatred and violence are used to slow down or stop that change.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Quote by DanielleX

Here in the UK there is a lot of heated debate regarding gender. I don't hear about a lot of hate/prejudice directed towards gay or lesbian people tbh.

then you are not listening very hard.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Quote by KimmiBeGood

I have always thought that fear is the root of all hate. So I’ve asked myself what do the haters fear from gays, trans. The only thing I can come up with is straight people fear your numbers will grow, if you are supported, to where one day you will be the majority and straight people will become the minority. No one wants to be in the minority in the U.S. because everyone sees how minorities have been treated throughout history.

it would certainly be hellish to all of a sudden start being treated like you've been treating others, wouldn't it.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Quote by sprite

it would certainly be hellish to all of a sudden start being treated like you've been treating others, wouldn't it.

It wouldn’t be for me because I try to treat everyone kindly and fairly. Not all straight people hate people with different sexual orientations. And I’m sorry people have hurt you.

Quote by KimmiBeGood

It wouldn’t be for me because I try to treat everyone kindly and fairly. Not all straight people hate people with different sexual orientations. And I’m sorry people have hurt you.

of course not for you - i hope you didn't think i meant differently, and i'm actually more upset at the people hurting others - i can take care of myself just fine. not everyone is as resilient.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

Quote by sprite

of course not for you - i hope you didn't think i meant differently, and i'm actually more upset at the people hurting others - i can take care of myself just fine. not everyone is as resilient.

Thank you for saying that. I’m openly straight and thought maybe you lumped me in with some who think differently than me.

I think about all the world’s problems a lot, political, gay/trans rights, mistreatment of blacks, wars, etc. and think we have to look at the root cause of it all in order to find solutions. It’s most always fear based and that’s hard to overcome, convincing those people they don’t need to be afraid of something they may not understand. I have no answers yet except to try to treat everyone how they want.

It's a mistake to generalize that straight people as a whole are LGBT phobic. It's been demonstrated through the historical record that In every society, there are about 1 in 3 people who can be tricked into embracing fascism, because ultimately, that's what this is all about--the 50-year plan formulated by right-wing corporatists to vacate the New Deal and take America back to the 19th Century Gilded Age. The corporatist oligarchical class knows conservatives and evangelicals can be easily manipulated by talk-radio and Fox News to divide the masses by turning them against each other, so they're distracted from legislating against the unjust practices of their true oppressors. The Republican Party serves the interests of the corporatist class to the exclusion of the common good, so they fan the flames of hate against 'the other' to that end.

Do you think this sudden surge in 'populist' rage against trans-kids, LGBTQ, and anything 'woke' just happened by accident? It is part of the plan! Their weapon is projection. Blame the left for the very things they themselves do. Via fundamentalist religion, they groom their children to hate, to be racist, to believe orientation is a choice. So naturally, they accuse the 'woke' community of 'grooming' children with homosexuality, drag-queens, and trans-community rights. As long as the American right votes Republican, we'll have legislation dehumanizing their many scapegoats. Nearly a third of America has been sucked into a fascist cult of personality, and their leader is Donald Trump. Until he is prosecuted for his crimes and imprisoned, his followers will be empowered to tear the country apart with hatred.