When Should the Federal Government use Race to Exclude Beneficiaries?

In that context, it doesn't.

While justice is supposed to be blind, politics and government surely is not.

But should government help those who have been held back by racism, prejudice, economic class, and corruption? Kind of like finally pushing justice and opportunity for all

Clearly the start of white genocide in this country.

Quote by Chryses

The Infrastructure Act created the Minority Business Development Agency (MBDA MBDA)

The MBDA is to establish a Business Center Program and to provide federal assistance to eligible entities to operate its business centers.

These centers offer technical assistance, business development services, and specialty services to only minority business enterprises.

A Business more than 51% owned by a "Black, African American, Hispanic, Latino, American Indian, Alaska Native, Asian, Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander, Puerto-Rican, Eskimo, Hasidic Jew, Asian Indian, or a Spanish-speaking American" is presumptively considered to be owned by a socially or economically disadvantaged individual.

No other groups are eligible, no matter how socially or economically disadvantaged.

How do you feel this fits with the constitutional requirement of equal treatment under the law?

I feel like this fits perfectly with how equal treatment under the law has been implemented in this country previously.

Quote by Tantaleyes

You don't get rid of racism with more racism.

You are not mistaken. **[edited by moderator]** need to speak up about all the racism white dudes in this country face.

Quote by Tantaleyes

**[edited by moderator]** You haven't changed your style.

What? Just saying, we need a new civil rights movement in this country but for white dudes.

Quote by Tantaleyes

Like I said, your style hasn't changed.

You're welcome to your opinion. What I think would be better is less racism, not more.

**[edited by moderator]**... Equal rights for white dudes is more racism?

Quote by Tantaleyes

**[edited by moderator]**, what's your problem with less racism?

**[edited by moderator]**, I said we need to stop all this racism against whites and you got all upset. This is what I mean. This is why white people can't get ahead in this country.

Quote by Tantaleyes

Let's return to the topic, OK?

You don't get rid of racism with more racism.

It was on topic until you decided to quote a deleted post.

So please take your own advice and keep things on topic. Thanks.

Note: This post does not require a response.

Quote by Buz

But should government help those who have been held back by racism, prejudice, economic class, and corruption? Kind of like finally pushing justice and opportunity for all

That's exactly what it is.

The MBDA is doing what so many similar organizations do, which is bridge the gap caused by systemic racism and generational disenfranchisement. Just because racism is no longer legal doesn't mean that its long-standing impact has been erased.

There may be organizations and business owners who are White and are struggling, but those struggles aren't attached to systemic racism and generational disenfranchisement. And in that regard, opportunities provided by the MBDA can only be considered unequal if White business owners didn't have other options to support them in their struggles. They do, and have for quite some time.

Quote by Tantaleyes

You don't get rid of racism with more racism.

This particular initiative isn't about getting rid of racism. Affirmative Action wasn't either.

Both of these are about giving an advantage to a demographic (or demographics) that have dealt with the effects of marginalization.

Quote by Tantaleyes

Racism is America's big problem. Having the American government create an agency that excludes its benefits from certain Americans because of their race is racist.

Is it a just response to past racism?

Quote by Tantaleyes

Is new racism a just response to old racism? I don't think so, but I'm sure there are people who do think so. Revenge isn't justice.

not sure how you see this as revenge.

Quote by Tantaleyes

Neither one fixes the wrong of the past, do they?

Using organizations like MBDA to remove some of the barriers caused by centuries of slavery followed by ongoing systemic racism against marginalized folks is but a small step towards fixing the wrongs of the past.

Quote by Tantaleyes

Is new racism a just response to old racism? I don't think so, but I'm sure there are people who do think so. Revenge isn't justice.

Then what would you do?

Under the way things are, majority white people benefited from the systems that they put in place, which purposely marginalized these groups listed here. Would you do anything? Or would you consider doing anything to be racism, since at the least, you have to name and exclude white people from these provisions?

Also, I thought this was a new agency. It isn't. It was created in 1969. The Infrastructure act just made the agency permanent.

Quote by Tantaleyes

I didn't say it was revenge.

New racism not fixing old racism is like revenge being unjust. They're examples of pushing a wrong from the past into the future. Neither one fixes the wrong of the past, do they?

At this rate there won't be any white people left in America.

Quote by Tantaleyes

Let's not waste more words. Do you think the right way to correct for the racism in the past is with racism now and into the future?

I wouldn't call it racism. I would call it equity. I do think this is one answer. Have you ever seen this image?

This group is part of the ramp.

Edited to say that I do not endorse the idea that equity creates rainbows.

Quote by AngelEthics

I wouldn't call it racism. I would call it equity. I do think this is one answer. Have you ever seen this image?

This group is part of the ramp.

Edited to say that I do not endorse the idea that equity creates rainbows.

First of all they are playing soccer? That's xenophobic against Americans.

Secondly, why doesn't the man get a comfortable place to sit down as well?

Thirdly why does the girl in the middle get a second crate?

Why is the man punished?

Quote by Tantaleyes

Do the agency's policies exclude Americans based on their race? If they do, then the policies are racist.

I think Americans should work to eliminate racism, not make racism part of the American government.

What did you think of the image and the idea of equity, in general?

Quote by Magical_felix

First of all they are playing soccer? That's xenophobic against Americans.

Secondly, why doesn't the man get a comfortable place to sit down as well?

Thirdly why does the girl in the middle get a second crate?

Why is the man punished?

Quote by Tantaleyes

Do you mean equity as in justice according to natural law or right, or freedom from bias or favoritism, or

something fair and impartial?

She wants to tear down the system white people built to favor white people which is not fair to white people at all. It's clear racism.

Quote by Magical_felix

First of all they are playing soccer? That's xenophobic against Americans.

Secondly, why doesn't the man get a comfortable place to sit down as well?

Thirdly why does the girl in the middle get a second crate?

Why is the man punished?

I was just wondering why they all get to see the game for free while the people in the stands paid their hard-earned money. While I'm being sarcastic, those were genuine complaints I saw the first time I ever saw this graphic a few years ago, particularly because the version I saw contained a third panel where the fence was removed, and no one needed extra support, symbolizing that instead of helping people adjust to the barrier, the barrier was removed entirely.

My favorite version of this uses an apple tree as a metaphor:

Programs like the MBDA are a great stepping stone to addressing the stain of continued systemic racism in this country (the US), but eradicating the need for such an organization should be the ultimate goal, because the barriers that make such organizations and programs necessary should no longer exist.

Quote by Dani

I was just wondering why they all get to see the game for free while the people in the stands paid their hard-earned money. While I'm being sarcastic, those were genuine complaints I saw the first time I ever saw this graphic a few years ago, particularly because the version I saw contained a third panel where the fence was removed, and no one needed extra support, symbolizing that instead of helping people adjust to the barrier, the barrier was removed entirely.

My favorite version of this uses an apple tree as a metaphor:

Programs like the MBDA are a great stepping stone to addressing the stain of continued systemic racism in this country (the US), but eradicating the need for such an organization should be the ultimate goal, because the barriers that make such organizations and programs necessary should no longer exist.

Is that a spider pulling the tree to the right? That's just nonsense.

And how about just grow your own tree on your own land. No one will loan you money to buy land? Tough shit, get a job. Can't get a good job because you can't afford college? Too bad, get 3 shitty jobs. Don't get paid enough to buy land? Cuts had to be made and you got fired first because of seniority or whatever? GET FUCKED! Ask your parents for money. They don't have any generational wealth to hand down because they couldn't afford college to get a good job and they were always fired first too, traffic ticket turned into jail time, bank laughed at them, couldn't afford health insurance? FUCK YOU! Go back to whatever racist country you're from. This is America, the land of equality.

Quote by Chryses

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

It's not about what we're calling it. It's about what it is.

White, male owned businesses are not without resources. It's not racist to create resources directed towards people who aren't white. That's the boost in the equity cartoon.

If this is racist, then what do you do to address past history that have left whole demographics at a financial and cultural disadvantage, now? Anything?

Quote by Chryses

One approach would be to find, pursue and eliminate the racism that holds back those who the agency claims to assist.

That would not require implementing racist policies.

So... a final solution but for racists?

Quote by Chryses

One approach would be to find, pursue and eliminate the racism that holds back those who the agency claims to assist.

That would not require implementing racist policies.

Sir, this is the Department of Commerce.

Quote by Chryses

As I recall, the last time a final solution was attempted, it led to an unsatisfactory resolution, correct?

There is no "final solution" and no perfecting humanity.

What I suggest in lieu of your final solution is improvement.

Everyone can improve.

Even those who think they are beyond improvement.

You suggested getting rid of racism instead of helping people, who may not have the same advantages, with their businesses.

It's like saying, we need to get rid of hate or joy or stupidity or whatever else. You know, as I know, that racism is just inherent in some people. It will always be there, especially in America. You know that. Your dumb response of, "lets focus on abolishing racism" is just that, dumb and disingenuous.

Well, we solved it.

All we need is the accumulated wisdom and experience of 500 years of human enlightenment.

Quote by Chryses

You are mistaken.

While I do recommend getting rid of racism, I did not do so in lieu of helping people.

Yes you did dumbass.

Quote by Chryses

One approach would be to find, pursue and eliminate the racism that holds back those who the agency claims to assist.

That would not require implementing racist policies.

Quote by AngelEthics

Well, we solved it.

All we need is the accumulated wisdom and experience of 500 years of human enlightenment.

Amen.

Quote by Chryses

And yet, after all the years that have passed since then, while we have, I think, improved, we are not yet perfected.

That's the point, right?

These are deep problems with roots at every level. That's why it's disingenuous to say the solution is to find, pursue, and eliminate racism. It's not just people; it's laws and cultural judgement and generational poverty. God knows all of that affect business owners.

But let's say you did. Racism is stamped out. That still doesn't eliminate the damage that's been done, essentially since the country's inception. This is one way to address this harm.