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The reason US heathcare is so expensive....

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This is a major issue in the US.

The main issue is the fact the the US treats healthcare as a commodity and not an essential service. Hospitals and Insurance companies negotiate for process. Unlike in other commodities, competition makes costs go down. But with health care competition just make costs go up.

Preventative care is minimized in the current system, in place of treatment based care which yields a higher profit.

Doctors perform lots of unnecessary surgeries because it consts more money.

The US is ranked less in the developed world while costing the most. Insurance companies and pharma companies make billions, while Americans get the worst quality health care in the developed world.

The US pays more than any other nation in medication costs.

How can Americans continue to support a system that is so expensive yet has the lowest standards of any developed nation?
Rainbow Warrior
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Quote by DamonX


How can Americans continue to support a system that is so expensive yet has the lowest standards of any developed nation?


Because they are being lied to by the right-wing mouthpieces of the corporate entities that stand to profit by preserving the current system. The forces behind the status quo are spending millions to propagandize the American people, scaring them with pejoratives like 'socialism' which few Americans even understand the true meaning.

Citizen's United has allowed those with the most money to corrupt our democracy with impunity, buying up the independent media to spread the corporate line and stifling all other dissenting views. All Republicans and half the Democrats are working for Big Pharma and the insurance industry against the best interests of the American people. Only the Progressive wing of the Democratic Party is offering real facts to the public. Vote for them!
Lurker
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Quote by DamonX


I fucked up the original post.

Please watch this clip. I'm still waiting for anyone to explain to me how the Us system is better in any way than a universal health care system like Canada.
Wild at Heart
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The health care system is fucked up because politicians are paid off and allow it to keep happening... what do you think would happen if it was completely government controlled?
Lurker
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Quote by Magical_felix
The health care system is fucked up because politicians are paid off and allow it to keep happening... what do you think would happen if it was completely government controlled?


Great question.

In Canada it's actually the no7 government controlled. it's jut Govenment here are the n-apajn
Wild at Heart
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Quote by DamonX


Great question.

In Canada it's actually the no7 government controlled. it's jut Govenment here are the n-apajn


Wut
Active Ink Slinger
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Anyone that thinks the US has affordable health care is part of the problem. That statement sure helped lose the last election!! If is not affordable to the large majority of Americans.
Lurker
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Quote by Magical_felix


Wut


Haha

In Canada it's actually the no7 government controlled. it's jut Govenment here are the n-apajn


I guess 10:59 is when the ambien begins to kick in.... At least I didn't say anything racist.

Let me clarify. In Canada, it's not government controlled. It's just funded from our tax dollars. Doctors are private workers that see patients and get paid for such services by our health care system at a set cost per patient.

Doctors don't work for the hospital and they aren't salesmen.

Nurses on the other hand, do work for the government and are union workers with extremely good benefits.

Thank you for bringing this up because it seems to be a misconception among a lot of Americans regarding Canadian Health care. (Including Rand Paul who compared Canadian Health care to slavery). Of course this was before he went to a Canadian hospital to get a hernia surgery.

But this isn't about Canada. All developed western nations supply health care to all citizens at a lower cost than the USA.

I just don't know why this isn't a bigger deal to most American voters.

Why are you proud to have the best military in the world, but the worst health care in the top 11 nations in the world?
Advanced Wordsmith
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I left active practice 4 years ago for a number or reasons:
1) The assembly line method...more patients, more $$$ generated
2) Unreasonable government regulations
3) Insurance companies dictating healthcare practices
4) Pressure from big Pharma to push several drugs, which, in many cases, has helped in the increased opioid crisis

These are just a few things I disagreed with. After I left,, I spent two years in Israel teaching and learning. Then I came home to work with under-served areas in the USA, i.e. Appalachia, Indian reservations in Northern Arizona, Boot heel of Southern Missouri. I did two stints with Doctors Without Borders in Central America. It was a great experience for me and reminded me why I chose medicine as a career in the first place. All of these positions were voluntary and paid only a small stipend.

One last thing. Someone accused doctors of getting filthy rich with our present healthcare system. I am not one of them. Yes, I made good living and invested wisely, but filthy rich...hardly.
Wild at Heart
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Quote by DamonX


Why are you proud to have the best military in the world, but the worst health care in the top 11 nations in the world?




I am not proud of that at all. In fact, I am someone who wants less, a lot less, military spending. And I'd have that money put back into our own country. Our own infrastructure. 200 million on a drone? Or 200 million on just one county's schools and roads? Pretty obvious answer.
The Linebacker
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Quote by Magical_felix
The health care system is fucked up because politicians are paid off and allow it to keep happening... what do you think would happen if it was completely government controlled?


A worse case scenario would it turns out like the VA. Of course that would create mass street violence if everyone were treated as badly as many military veterans.
The Linebacker
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Quote by BaritoneBoy


One last thing. Someone accused doctors of getting filthy rich with our present healthcare system. I am not one of them. Yes, I made good living and invested wisely, but filthy rich...hardly.


That may have been me. And l know a lot of doctors aren't getting rich. Some are barely keeping their heads above financial water after paying their outrageous malpractice insurance premiums and business and clinic expenses.

I do know some doctors getting filthy rich, and their attitude to their careers, it seems to me, is it's just a means to great money.

Thanks to all the doctors like you, that do all the volunteer work and serve the people in most need. It shows when someone does it because they love it.
Lurker
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Quote by Buz


A worse case scenario would it turns out like the VA. Of course that would create mass street violence if everyone were treated as badly as many military veterans.



This is actually the thing that I am the most amazed at.

A country that claims to love the military and the veterans, treat the same veterans like garbage when it comes to actually giving them proper health care.

I've worked with Canadian vets, and they get the best of everything. Health care, substance abuse treatment, etc.

But in the us (the most powerful military in the world) when they are done, it's "thank you for your service. Go fuck yourself?"

And if you question that, you are "against the troops?"

The money to give these people the proper health care that they require is a drop in the bucket when compared to the trillions spent in Iraq.

The reason is that there is no economic benefit. Case closed.
Lurker
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Quote by Buz


A worse case scenario would it turns out like the VA. Of course that would create mass street violence if everyone were treated as badly as many military veterans.



This is actually the thing that I am the most amazed at.

A country that claims to love the military and the veterans, treat the same veterans like garbage when it comes to actually giving them proper health care.

I've worked with Canadian vets, and they get the best of everything. Health care, substance abuse treatment, etc.

But in the us (the most powerful military in the world) when they are done, it's "thank you for your service. Go fuck yourself?"

And if you question that, you are "against the troops?"

The money to give these people the proper health care that they require is a drop in the bucket when compared to the trillions spent in Iraq.

The reason is that there is no economic benefit. Case closed.
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by Buz


That may have been me. And l know a lot of doctors aren't getting rich. Some are barely keeping their heads above financial water after paying their outrageous malpractice insurance premiums and business and clinic expenses.

I do know some doctors getting filthy rich, and their attitude to their careers, it seems to me, is it's just a means to great money.

Thanks to all the doctors like you, that do all the volunteer work and serve the people in most need. It shows when someone does it because they love it.


It may have been you, Buz, but I have heard this my entire medical career...'boy, you doctors have it made, making the big bucks, must be nice.' Well, no it is not nice. I and many others have worked our butts off, long hours, sacrificing personal lives, dealing with the pressures of a for-profit organization to generate more revenue, etc. Then there is the ridiculous cost for malpractice insurance which is necessary in this lawsuit happy country. Most insurance companies will settle out of court, even if you have a legitimate defense, rather than go to trial and these plaintiff attorneys know it. You, the physician, may be totally innocent, but if a case is settled out of court without defending yourself, it's on your record forever. I could rant on, but I have said enough. I am in a happy place now, doing what I love, providing care for people who really need it and cannot afford it. I don't need the money. I have self respect and satisfaction in doing what I was called to do.
The Linebacker
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Quote by BaritoneBoy


It may have been you, Buz, but I have heard this my entire medical career...'boy, you doctors have it made, making the big bucks, must be nice.' Well, no it is not nice. I and many others have worked our butts off, long hours, sacrificing personal lives, dealing with the pressures of a for-profit organization to generate more revenue, etc. Then there is the ridiculous cost for malpractice insurance which is necessary in this lawsuit happy country. Most insurance companies will settle out of court, even if you have a legitimate defense, rather than go to trial and these plaintiff attorneys know it. You, the physician, may be totally innocent, but if a case is settled out of court without defending yourself, it's on your record forever. I could rant on, but I have said enough. I am in a happy place now, doing what I love, providing care for people who really need it and cannot afford it. I don't need the money. I have self respect and satisfaction in doing what I was called to do.


Those are good points. And no doubt overly agressive litigation attorneys have influenced the out of control costs of healthcare by bringing far too many frivolous law suits. There are a segment of 'ambulance-chaser' attorneys who make a living filing medical law suits because they know insurance companies will pay out small settlements easily because that is cheaper than fighting frivolous suits.

That's just one more of many things that have inflated US healthcare costs.
Advanced Wordsmith
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Quote by DamonX


This is a major issue in the US.

The main issue is the fact the the US treats healthcare as a commodity and not an essential service. Hospitals and Insurance companies negotiate for process. Unlike in other commodities, competition makes costs go down. But with health care competition just make costs go up.

Preventative care is minimized in the current system, in place of treatment based care witch yields a higher profit.

Doctors perform lots of unnecessary surgeries because it consts more money.

The US is ranked less in the developed world while costing the most. Insurance companies and pharma companies make billions, while Americans get the worst quality health care in the developed world.

The US pays more than any other nation in medication costs.

How can Americans continue to support a system that is so expensive yet has the lowest standards of any developed nation?


I agree with part of what you are saying, but one thing I should emphasize, if you work in a major metro hospital like i did for many years there is a surgical review board before and after surgery. All surgeries are pre-evaluated, with the exception of major trauma and emergencies. i cannot speak for smaller communities since I've never worked there. All doctors are not greedy bastards as you suggest. Preventative care IS emphasized, but it is the patient who often is in denial, not the doctor. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. I suspect you work in healthcare since your photos are in scrubs, but have you actually worked in American healthcare? If, not, you should not base your judgment on what you read.
The Linebacker
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Healthcare in the USA is way too expensive for a multitude of reasons, but in general, it is not substandard. In fact, for most, l'd say it is among the best, if not the best for quality and professionalism.

Many of the best and most talented doctors from around the world migrate to America to practice medicine here because of the increased income and the superior facilities.

Our problem here, is the outrageous expense, not quality, at least for most. But the bottom rung of the economic scale, too often, are left out of the best care because they cannot afford it.
Active Ink Slinger
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It is the biggest rip off when people need help. we can fix you possibly but it will cost you. You don't need medicine you need a better died. Also why is there a dramatic increase in elderly bankruptcy in the last few years.
Lurker
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Doctors are starting to realize they can refuse all insurance and get paid directly in cash, but the corporations' fight to keep their racket will last decades.
Lurker
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Expensive because of all the people who don’t pay a dime.... If you don’t buy the insurance policy you want that covers the level of care you want you should not get the same level of treatment that someone who pays for the best service provides. You get what you pay for. Now I know we just can’t not treat people without coverage but why in the world should that person get the same level of treatment that a paying person does?
Lurker
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Expensive because of all the people who don’t pay a dime.... If you don’t buy the insurance policy you want that covers the level of care you want you should not get the same level of treatment that someone who pays for the best service provides. You get what you pay for. Now I know we just can’t not treat people without coverage but why in the world should that person get the same level of treatment that a paying person does?
Advanced Wordsmith
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It used to be more affordable. Before obamacare, people could buy a level of insurance based on their own preferences. Now, because of obamacare (which was a thinly veiled attempt to destroy the private health sector as a first step towards socialized medicine), people that used to have $250-$500 deductibles, now have $3000-20,000 deductibles! EXCEPT those on welfare have NO deductibles or copays. An OB/GYN told me that those patients often got to an ER because they think they are pregnant! Anyone else would spend their own $20 on an over the counter test.

However, it is still the best healthcare in the world. Wealthy people from countries with socialized medicine still travel here for the best care.
Forum Kan-Guru
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Quote by ComradePete

However, it is still the best healthcare in the world. Wealthy people from countries with socialized medicine still travel here for the best care.


You might need to define "best". I've seen the US healthcare system described as "islands of excellence in a sea of mediocrity". Fine as long as you're on an island...
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Pure and simple greed. The rich want more power and money. The politicians gave it to them...as always.
The Linebacker
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Quote by PhilU


You might need to define "best". I've seen the US healthcare system described as "islands of excellence in a sea of mediocrity". Fine as long as you're on an island...


I see it first hand, as the other way around. Islands of mediocrity located in the poorest areas, which are far less than than most anywhere else in the world. Healthcare here is generally too expensive, but it is not often mediocre, and predominently excellent.

Yes, Americans pay more than anyone else, but they do pay it, and still have one of the best average standard of livings on the planet.

All that aside, we shouldn't have to pay what we do. The system needs to be changed. The ultimate reason it is more expensive is that there are too many hands taking a piece of the money pie.
Practitioner of the art of the tease...
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The healthcare system in the US is generally a reactive system and not a proactive system. Just a 1-2% reduction in chronic disease would save billions alone and free up healthcare dollars for just about anything including social programs to... prevent more chronic disease. This is certainly not the primary reason but it plays a large role in why we pay so much.

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Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by leftlingula
The healthcare system in the US is generally a reactive system and not a proactive system. Just a 1-2% reduction in chronic disease would save billions alone and free up healthcare dollars for just about anything including social programs to... prevent more chronic disease. This is certainly not the primary reason but it plays a large role in why we pay so much.


This is a good point.

We have a system that makes money off the sick instead of system than prevents illness.

When people tout the health care systems of France or Japan, they often fail to state that these cultures are generally more healthy overall.

However, a large percentage of the American health care costs are due to to price of pharmaceuticals. The US is the only nation on earth that does not negotiate with pharma companies for prices.

I hate when people state that we have the best health care in the world... because how many of our 300 million people have access to that?
Active Ink Slinger
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I doubt if the Artful Dodger or Buz have ever visited a VA facility, much less been treated at one. I can only speak for the VA medical care I have received. I have always been able to access care when I needed it and been treated with great courtesy and respect. There is never more than a 15 minute wait when you check in to see a doctor. The Navy coremen who take blood pressure, etc., are courteous and business like. Doctors have time to listen and offer alternatives. I pay a $7 co pay for a drug that costs more than $1,000 a month. I can access my medical records on line and any VA specialist I see has access to my complete records. I am very healthy. The VA has accessable mental health, weight loss and drug addiction programs. The VA didn't tell me to "Go fuck myself," I was told to come in and be healthy. The VA is one of the world's most efficient health care systems. Ninety eight percent of Vets getting VA care would not want it privitised.
Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by icurOK2
I doubt if the Artful Dodger or Buz have ever visited a VA facility, much less been treated at one. I can only speak for the VA medical care I have received. I have always been able to access care when I needed it and been treated with great courtesy and respect. There is never more than a 15 minute wait when you check in to see a doctor. The Navy coremen who take blood pressure, etc., are courteous and business like. Doctors have time to listen and offer alternatives. I pay a $7 co pay for a drug that costs more than $1,000 a month. I can access my medical records on line and any VA specialist I see has access to my complete records. I am very healthy. The VA has accessable mental health, weight loss and drug addiction programs. The VA didn't tell me to "Go fuck myself," I was told to come in and be healthy. The VA is one of the world's most efficient health care systems. Ninety eight percent of Vets getting VA care would not want it privitised.


Is anyone actually arguing for the VA to be privatized?

I think the subject of the thread is the cost of health care.

You just made a pretty good argument for universal health care in addition to the argument that all vets should get complimentary spelling lessons.

Maybe you would like to address the subject of the thread and suggest how some of the cost effective measures of the VA could be applied to the entire population?