Highly Trained Armed Security In Schools - Reallocate IRS Funds to Do It

Quote by Ironic

More red flag laws - if they can be written well enough to get through the course.

The thread topic idea should be discussed instead of dismissed.

you realize that a lot of people, including those in power, bristle at the idea of red-flag laws and starting going on about RIGHTS whenever the subject is broached, right? to me, they're common sense, but then i consider myself pretty reasonable.

Quote by Ironic

How do you propose to implement a Green Flag law?

Require gun owners to have regular medical/mental tests be signed off by professionals.

Quote by Ironic

Then you shouldn't associate the the two 40%s as you did.

If you're taking the long road - the constitutional amendment - you'll need to wait a long while for the result you want.

as i said, it's worth it, IF the changes actually happen. i mean, i don't think it'll happen in the next few years or even decades, but eventually? i mean, what about making things better for your children, if not yourself?

Quote by Ironic

That's not even required for a driving license, and driving is a privilege, not a right.

owning a gun should also be considered a privilege and not a right. sadly, we're a little backward on that. i think that, just like driving, let's say if you go out shooting while drunk, your right to own a gun should be revoked. if you accidentally shoot someone because you're not being safe, your right to own a gun should be revoked. treat it like driving. you break the law, you cause someone harm? you act dangerously? BAM. no more gun for you, buddy. REVOKED. let's not cite the second amendment and just think about this - anyone here have an issue with that? or you think there is no reason why anyone should have their right to own a gun taken away under any circumstance?

Quote by Ironic

Well, Good Luck, but then you've got to accept the long term results.

if the long term results are less gun violence/death? why would i have any issues with that?

Quote by Ironic

What is this "can't do" you're talking about?

It's when folks like you and Chryses keep focusing on possible hurdles ("oh, but it's hard, because the 2nd amendment, because SCOTUS, because there's so many guns, because we're Americans, etc.") instead of focusing on possible solutions to fix this.

Quote by Ironic

Because until the constitution is revised, the basics of US gun ownership will remain, and the shootings will continue, and it's the shootings I think that you really care about.

well, i could wave my magic wand and wish the shootings away instead. let's give it a try. or just throw up my hands and do nothing. why are you opposed to trying to change the status quo, regardless of how long it might take? i refuse to accept that this is just the way it is, get used to it.

Quote by Ironic

Chryses covered the revoking aspect several pages back.

Chryses mostly says a lot of things without really saying anything - he's like a hot air balloon - so i tend to ignore most of what he says. even if i disagree with you, i read and reply to your posts, because you actually attempt to debate your position honestly and i can at least respect that if not agree with it.

Quote by Chryses

What is the Green Law(s) you propose, and how will they work with the Second Amendment?

I just outlined them. How will they not work with the amendment?

Quote by Ironic

Then you shouldn't associate the the two 40%s as you did.

If you're taking the long road - the constitutional amendment - you'll need to wait a long while for the result you want.

The slow route doesn't exclude faster routes.

Quote by Chryses

I shall hazard a guess that he means America hasn't done "it" yet.

I can explain my POV myself, thank you.

Quote by Ironic

Fine. Don't. But if there's a symptom treatment that reduces the number = even if it doesn't address the root cause - then I'd have thought you'd be in favor.

okay, sure. what is the symptom treatment then? sell me on it and i'd be happy to use it as a bandaid to slap on while we also take the long-term approach - doing one doesn't mean we can't do the other - bandaid is great for stopping the blood flow on a temp basis. but you need to tend to the wound long-term, so that it heals without infection and leaves as small a scar as possible.

Quote by Ironic

Until gun ownership changes from a right to a privilege, it can't be controlled like a license to drive a car can.

Are blind people allowed to carry a gun?

Quote by Ironic

Everybody knows you dislike him, but he did review (with links to sourc.e material) some of the ways the right to own guns. If you're interested, you can read what he has to say

i don't have to like him to respect him. that's the issue. he's proven himself to be disingenuous and dishonest. on more occasions than i can abide. he is also, in my opinion, a troll, so no, i am not interested in what he has to say to be completely honest since his source material is usually pretty suspect as well.

Quote by Ironic

Until gun ownership changes from a right to a privilege, it can't be controlled like a license to drive a car can.

All the more reason to change it, so it can.

Quote by Chryses

Gun ownership is a right of the citizen, not a privilege granted by the state. That is why Red Flag laws work, but your Green Flag law will not.

Why not?

States have provisions that protect individual rights, even ones granted by the constitution. The same can apply to the right to bear arms.

Quote by Ironic

The School Guardian Act is an example. That's the OP.

PS There's more than one treatment.

yep, there is. so, which treatment is the GOP (because, let's be honest here, they are the party, currently, that is cockblocking most gun legislation - and that's not just a bias on my part - it's fact, based on their voting records) going to help pass? And yes. the school guardian act. kind of a crappy bandaid. Uvalde. How many armed cops stood outside in the hall listening as kids were being shot? For how long? that said, i don't believe i am on record and being against it as long as it doesn't stop there. use it like a bandaid, but don't do it and say - there! problem solved! nothing more to do! that's my concern. it's tending to the symptoms and ignoring the root cause. why can't we do both? why does it have to be an either/or thing? how about we make things a little better short term while continuing to look for a real solution longterm?

Quote by Chryses

Gun ownership is a right of the citizen, not a privilege granted by the state. That is why Red Flag laws work, but your Green Flag law will not.

It's a concept that costs many innocent American lives each year. Totally not worth it I'd say. It's the dogma behind "can't do".

Quote by Ironic

That opinion won't improve the situation.

Yes it does. It's why other western countries don't have this issue on the scale the US has.

Quote by Chryses

Yes, your proposal probably will not do.

LOL

Quote by Ironic

You know what needs to be done.

Then take the can do approach and make it so!

Quote by noll

It's a concept that costs many innocent American lives each year. Totally not worth it I'd say. It's the dogma behind "can't do".

In light of the discourse around guns and commitment to them over the lives of people, I believe it's more "won't do" than "can't do."

In the mass shooting that happened in the mall in Texas this weekend, there was a 6-year-old boy who came out of the ICU today. He was the only survivor out of both his parents, and 3-year-old brother. If the only thing we can offer that is "Welp, guns are a right" and return fire (in hopes that return fire doesn't add to the death toll of bystanders), then that speaks of an unwillingness for reform versus inability to act.

Quote by Chryses

Your dogma, not mine.

How is it my dogma? That makes no sense at all. You brought it up, not me. I think it's dangerous bullshit. And the death toll seems to back me up.

Quote by Ironic

You're proposing an other-western-countries approach that'll probably fail here, That why that opinion won't improve the situation.

No, I explained why that opinion can improve the situation. If more Americans had that opinion you'd see that you can find a way to turn your "can't do" in "can do".

Quote by Ironic

You know what needs to be done. If you care, try to do what you say others can do.

What needs to be done to significantly reduce mass shootings in the US?

Quote by Dani

In light of the discourse around guns and commitment to them over the lives of people, I believe it's more "won't do" than "can't do."

In the mass shooting that happened in the mall in Texas this weekend, there was a 6-year-old boy who came out of the ICU today. He was the only survivor out of both his parents, and 3-year-old brother. If the only thing we can offer that is "Welp, guns are a right" and return fire (in hopes that return fire doesn't add to the death toll of bystanders), then that speaks of an unwillingness for reform versus inability to act.

It's "won't do" indeed, but it's always presented as "can't do", presented as something absolute. But it's man-made of course. The US is man-made, so is the 2nd amendment, and so are firearms.

The American Dream is very much a "can do" mentality, but when it comes to providing a safe society for kids and everyone else the US raises its collective arms (no pun intended): "Sorry, can't do".

*Image removed by moderator. Forum rules clearly state the Think Tank isn't to be overrun by memes, especially if not relevant to the topic.*

It's pathetic really.

Quote by Ironic

I prefer to take one or more of the paths to partial success than walk down the road to failure, thanks.

Again, one doesn't exclude the other. But one only fights the symptoms while the other fights the cause.

Quote by Chryses

Many things don't make sense to you. I have accustomed myself to that response of yours. Now, let us return to the topic of approaches to addressing school and mass shootings here.

So, you're not gonna explain how it's my dogma then? No surprise there.

Quote by Ironic

You know what needs to be done. If you care, try to do what you say others can do.

What do you mean?

Quote by Ironic

I think it has potential, and even if it does work, it is a bandaid. But it's one of the symptom treatments that can be applied now.

Has anybody said both approaches couldn't be tried?

i thought i just did...