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Guns! Yaaay!!

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Quote by jollylolly



I think all white, middle-class, educated, safety trained gun owners are considered responsible until they make just one tragic mistake, and then they're put in the stupid/criminal category. Only one gun owner I know personally is interested in gun law reform, none of them want to admit that guns themselves are a problem.

I don't care what you do, just please don't shoot me or anyone I know.

No body that leaves a gun where a child can get to it can be considered a responsible gun owner. Incidents like this are not "tragic mistakes" they are the result of irresponsible behavior. Responsible gun owners do not leave guns where anyone besides them have access to them.
Quote by jollylolly


Is that what you tell 2 year olds that accidentally shoot their "responsible" gun nut parents?

We have too many guns and maybe that's why we have thousands and thousands of gun deaths every year.


How can you call me nuts you don't even know me

: )
Quote by Dani

Please do not become jaded by the vast number of narrow minded sensationalists and their weird gun boners.

Most rational Americans understand the need for better gun regulation in this country. Furthermore, we understand that the right to bear arms does not mean to do so irresponsibly and without restriction.

Also, we are not all of us callous enough to chalk up a tragedy to another statistic or hiccup in the grand scheme of the whole gun thing. We can recognize a preventable tragedy when we see one.

Unfortunately, a great number of the lobbyists tend to be of the irrational variety.

But to say it's all just a numbers game for Americans as a whole is misguided at best.

Sweeping generalizations are part of the problem as it is, so throwing your own into the mix definitely doesn't help. So saying we see tragedy differently simply because, well, America is grossly unfair. Especially when one is trying to promote unity.

"Fuck off America. No one needs your solidarity because, guns." Is that something you wanna stand behind?




Generalisations and assumptions, (you have done so with your label, 'rational'), are always going to be made and used until one drills down to specifics. Specifics best dealt with by those who have the knowledge and wisdom to do so with out too tainted an agenda. Reasoned legislation may then follow.

Until then, one can encourage debate as well as expression of emotion as has clearly occurred here in this forum. For reasoned debate, polarity has to be recognised and attempts to understand such differences in such a complex issue.

In a democratic country, where the once the unimaginable election of a black president has taken place one would have thought some change would have happened with regards to this issue in over 15 years, unless the majority are not as you say, 'rational'.

It is not suggested to be just a numbers game.
The fact is, that as a result the only change is a note in history of another shooting, and subsequent loss of life. Any apparent lessons seem lost.
Of all our inventions for mass communication,
pictures still speak the most universally understood language.

Walt Disney
First of all there is no such thing as an "assault rifle" They are just black semi automatic rifles. The same functioning rifle also comes in brown wood. People that aren't familiar with them think they are bad because that's what the media makes them out to be. Most people ask "why do you even need that, they are not for hunting" Well I use mine to hunt, have a few different ones for whatever I'm hunting. The one I use the most has a flashlight on it so when my dog finds a coon and get into a fight I don't shoot him, I can see and shoot the coon. We also have coyotes around here that spread disease and kill livestock. I have a much larger "assault rifle" I use to kill those, because they are 250-350 yards away. Guns and cars/trucks are very alike, you need one that will meet your needs, you are comfortable with and will get the job done. Tactical rifles "assault rifles" are easily accessorised to meet the needs of comfort and handleabiltity, therefor making it much safer, and fewer accidents.
There is no legislation ever that will take guns out of criminals hands, period. It hasn't worked for guns, drugs, , sex trafficking, alcohol, robbery, ect. Bottom line is even if you took away all guns from everyone, bad people will still do bad things. Being in the fire service I have had hundreds of hours of training for bombs and booby traps set at meth labs. Being in a rural area, guns are very very common. I can think of only 2 cases where someone around here has used them to harm someone else in the last 15 yrs. Fatality car accidents with drunk drivers on the other hand, I see about 3-5/yr not including the ones with serious injury. Take away guns, they'll blow people up or stab them. Bad people are bad people.
Quote by Wildweasel
Bad people are bad people.



Then why is there such a vastly disproportionate number of 'bad' people in America? No other country in the world comes anywhere close to the number of gun-deaths as there are every year in America.
It is legal to own guns in Canada. You need an Firearms Acquisition Certificate which includes a police background check. This means you cannot just walk into a store or gun show and buy one, but it does allow you to buy one (actually up 3 or 5 or something, IIRC). It only allows you own guns meeting certain parameters (long guns, no full auto, a few others I think), but that's all most gun owners up here really need since they are mostly hunters, farmers (for removing vermin) and such like. Handguns are restricted and require special permits and additional checks. Guns must be secured and unloaded when stored or transported. I am quite happy with this regime as, it seems to me, it hits a fairly happy medium between gun owners rights and society's need to control a dangerous item. If we can license drivers and take that license away if they f-up badly, why can't we do the same for gun owners?
Quote by BethanyFrasier



Then why is there such a vastly disproportionate number of 'bad' people in America? No other country in the world comes anywhere close to the number of gun-deaths as there are every year in America.



Chicago has one of the highest number of gun crimes in the country, yet the state has the strictest gun laws. If only the criminals have weapons and nobody can fight back unless the police are there, what is the deterant for bad people? The law? obviously that doesn't matter much to them.
Quote by Wildweasel


Chicago has one of the highest number of gun crimes in the country, yet the state has the strictest gun laws. If only the criminals have weapons and nobody can fight back unless the police are there, what is the deterant for bad people? The law? obviously that doesn't matter much to them.


OTOH, we have fairly strict gun laws in Canada to the point where police and the odd criminal are normally the only armed people on any given street and our murder rate per thousand is well below many parts of the US, let alone murder by gun (which is a subset of that murder rate). If owning guns is a deterrent to the criminals who get them illegally, then we should have a much bigger gun problem than we do. IOW the presence or absence of gun laws may not be the only, or even the biggest, factor in gun crime rates. It is likely that other factors like gang activity are a bigger factor. Even here in Canada, the gun crime rate tends to be highest in cities (like Winnipeg and Toronto) with a lot of gang activity.

So Chicago's gun crime rate may not support you or your opposition, but could be related to an entirely different problem. Reigning in the gangs is likely the solution there, not changing Illinois' gun laws.
Quote by Frank

Specifics best dealt with by those who have the knowledge and wisdom to do so without too tainted an agenda. Reasoned legislation may then follow.

It will never happen then. Knowledge and wisdom are not qualities I associate with politicians in any country.
Quote by BethanyFrasier



Then why is there such a vastly disproportionate number of 'bad' people in America? No other country in the world comes anywhere close to the number of gun-deaths as there are every year in America.



Beth,
Actually your right and wrong. The USA is 26th world wide in gun deaths. But way out ahead in the modern industrialized countries.


Quote by ChuckEPoo


Beth,
Actually your right and wrong. The USA is 26th world wide in gun deaths. But way out ahead in the modern industrialized countries.





Which basically suggests we are now a third world country, not a civilized, first world nation.

ban, round up, then destroy all guns YAAAYY