Fines: Equality vs Equity

In America almost all fines are set by a specific fixed range. To keep things simple let’s look at $150.00 parking ticket. No matter the vehicle or circumstance, anyone illegally parking in this specific spot is fined the same equal $150. Do you feel this is fair?

In some countries, fines are based on the violators income. So based off someone’s income that $150 may be a back breaking charge because they live paycheck to paycheck. Alternatively someone obscenely wealthy may find $150 to mean nothing and finds no deterrent to the fine. So the same parking ticket would instead be $25 for an extremely poor person and $50,000 for a rich person so that they both experience similar economic impacts to the ticket. This is considered an equitable fine as opposed to the equal fine.

Would you support an equitable system of financial punishment over equal?

I believe this system of measured fine is in use in several countries. I rather like the idea, but can it stand (in the US) against "equal before the law" which cuts both ways in this case?

What's the point of getting rich if you can't get away with crimin'

Especially on a corporate level, these fines should be called into question. Make a million doing something illegal, fined 500k. That’s 500k profits. It’s an incentive to engage I. Illegal activity, not a deterrent.

While I like the idea it’s a bit of a silly concession that makes people feel better but doesn’t address the overarching structures that allow for wealth hoarding in the first place.

It’s a lot like recycling. You feel better but an individual is not comparable to a corporation and never will be.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure how it actually works, but in corporate fraud cases, I think a fair estimate of the profit generated by the fraud should be added on top of the fine for breaking the law. So, if your business made a million dollars through shady dealings, you should be forced to pay that million back plus an additional fine of $500K.

As for speeding, I think we should abolish speed limits, and equip cars with weaponry James Bond style. Who hasn't wished for a pair of rocket launchers to pop out of the hood of their car at some time or other when stuck behind someone driving the exact speed limit in the fast lane when you need to get somewhere?

I'm all for such a system. The only issue I see, is that it's just another reason, besides taxes, to lie about one's income/wealth.

Quote by Just_A_Guy_You_Know
As for speeding, I think we should abolish speed limits, and equip cars with weaponry James Bond style. Who hasn't wished for a pair of rocket launchers to pop out of the hood of their car at some time or other when stuck behind someone driving the exact speed limit in the fast lane when you need to get somewhere?

LOL, ever heard of the game Car Wars? It's a tabletop wargame going back to the early eighties (or maybe even late seventies) that is basically this premise.

Yeah, I think fines based on income is an idea whose time has come at an individual level.

Quote by Just_A_Guy_You_Know

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure how it actually works, but in corporate fraud cases, I think a fair estimate of the profit generated by the fraud should be added on top of the fine for breaking the law. So, if your business made a million dollars through shady dealings, you should be forced to pay that million back plus an additional fine of $500K.

Not just corporate fraud. Dumping toxic chemicals or other illegal environmental impacts comes to mind as another that should be under this regime. Illegal tax evasion would be another.

For some of your corporate crimes listed above; The dollar amount the company earned through illegal activity is often hard to peg down. However having fines based on the company’s worth based on their latest share holder fillings (not their tax filings) would be a good way to assess these.

Going slightly off topic we also need to start holding corporate players accountable with jail time for their crimes. Guy steals $200 from the till, he goes to jail. Corporation shorts employees $2,000,000 in wages over the year? Small fine.

Parking illegally and getting booted irks me. But, you can buy a tool that releases the boot.

I have one. 😊 If l get my wheel booted, l take the fucking wheel boot with me and toss it in a dumpster somewhere. I fucking hate companies that boot cars. Fuck them!

Quote by Buz

Parking illegally and getting booted irks me. But, you can buy a tool that releases the boot.

I have one. 😊 If l get my wheel booted, l take the fucking wheel boot with me and toss it in a dumpster somewhere. I fucking hate companies that boot cars. Fuck them!

Read an article about this group of women who go around and remove boots for like $50,and dispose of the boots. Since the whole business of towing and booting is done on the knifes edge of legality there’s legal discourse if they did anything illegal. They arrive masked and keep their identities concealed for fear of legal blowback from the tow companies.

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1176175801/boot-girls-atlanta-private-parking-enforcement

Quote by RowanThorn

Read an article about this group of women who go around and remove boots for like $50,and dispose of the boots. Since the whole business of towing and booting is done on the knifes edge of legality there’s legal discourse if they did anything illegal. They arrive masked and keep their identities concealed for fear of legal blowback from the tow companies.

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/16/1176175801/boot-girls-atlanta-private-parking-enforcement

I also think booting breaks the line of legality and should be banned.

I also think sting operations by law enforcement is contrary to the US Constitution. Especially considering that law enforcement financially profits from seizing property.

That should be banned also.

There us no equity in taxation also. A more equitable system of taxation should be enacted, so the very rich actually pay their percentage based on income. And a real workable enforced Taxpayer Bill of Rights, so people are not defenseless against a Gestapo-like IRS.