I am not really sure if this is the right place in forums to post this topic, or if it should be brought up at all. My guess is this topic is discussed in private among friends where nothing really gets done or changes. Bringing up how RR works or doesn't may cause me to lose a few friends or who knows, make a few, but after hearing at least four friends this week alone talk on the subject I wanted my questions and thoughts public.
I, like many, see the same small group of people getting a majority of recgnition with some stories barely posted before the symbol appears. The one that caused my concern is when a friend showed me a story that had been up for sometime when she friended a Mod, the next day the story had a RR. I am, nor would I ever accuse a Mod of wrong doing, but by not being open about who chooses what, too much is in question.
So wondering if this was just sour grapes on my part, I took twenty pieces from this sight to the Lit Professor's I work with to ask their professional opinion. Ten pieces were RR and ten were pieces I had read that were not recognized here on Lush. Only two pieces of the ten RR, were picked as top pieces by one teacher, the other just three. I am not a math major, but that is 12.5 % of the pieces declared RR being picked by pros with no bias or nepotism involved. The few who did really well in judging were told, because their work deserved me sharing the good news. If anyone wants to know what pieces won the judging, p!ease message. The pieces that did not will never be shared because this isn't about making any one person feel bad.
So instead of just bitching or causing hurt feelings, I was always taught to brings answers to questions if you have an issue. So with all this being said, here are a few ideas that some of us discussed in private. Agree or disagree, but please be polite as this is just my idea of starting good open communication. Below are a few ideas we liked as a group, many others were shot down... Last word by me, most writing here is done with a lot of effort and passion, so many good writers deserve to be recognized before they just give up or move on.
IDEA'S FOR RR.....
1. Any story or poem given RR, should include who gave the RR and a quick blurb as to why.
2. If a Mod gives a RR to one writer, they can't give a second one to same person for six months with no back tracking on stories.
3. No RR can be given to anyone on a friends list.
4. Readers be allowed to send personal favorites to Lush, bypassing Mods so that staff can make choice if worthy.
Many others, but these were the four all liked in some form...
With good intentions,
J
Getting literature professors (and, to be honest, I've read stuff recommended by lit profs that was artsy pablum crap) to review Lush material is pointless. We know that this isn't exactly Penguin Books here. It's a fun site for people to put their stories up for others to read. We have mods to try to maintain a minimum level of quality, not to turn this into high art. The RR and EC awards are a way to encourage those writers who rise above the run-of-the-mill crop. They aren't equivalent to a Man Booker or anything, just a way to highlight stories that the team thinks are worthy of the attention of the readers.
As for your questions:
1. When you get an RR, it tells the writer who gave it. Since it is really just a way of highlighting a story that the mod in question thinks others might enjoy, I don't see a point to making it public knowledge. Again, the RR doesn't mean it is great literature, just that the mod thinks it's a story that is better than Lush norm and that others might enjoy.
2. Why? If a writer is putting out consistently good material, why shouldn't they be able to reward them again? You're assuming Mods are simply handing them out to their friends but that's not what I've seen.
3. Not sure how much that accomplishes. I have people on my friends list that are barely casual acquaintances and some who I message/converse with regularly. Just because someone is on someone else's friend list doesn't mean they actually are friends in any real sense so a mod awarding an RR to a friend doesn't automatically mean bias.
4. There are no staff to send to directly. The Mods ARE the staff so bypassing them means the stories go directly to Nic. The whole point of the mods being there is because Nic doesn't have the time to vet and reward stories herself (Lush is a business and she runs it) and created the mod team to do that job.
Short version: The system works just fine for what this board is about. If you think Lush is about "art" or should pass muster with literature professors (who I find are often as full of s**t as anyone else where literature is concerned), then you're on the wrong board. Lush is, IME and IMHO, about well-written, entertaining and, most of all, arousing stories. And we have plenty of those that are the deserved recipients of RRs.
(Bias statement: I was a mod for two years but never handed out an RR that I can recall. Maybe one. I am the recipient of several RRs.)
I totally agree with this. I myself always wondered that. Also, what does it take to get an RR....
First off. Thank you! Thank you for bringing this up. I for one have thought heavily on this topic but have never brought it up because of the same reasons you have stated. I have read some good, and I mean excellent RR stories. But on the other hand, I have read some that I had thought how the hell did it get RR? Now I am not saying that they didn't deserve it by no means. Just saying that it wasn't as good as some others I have read.
But again this is my opinion and means nothing on the large scale of things. I have come to the point that I have stopped looking at them unless the subject matter is something I am interested in reading. I must add that I have read some stories that are ten times better than most RR's I have read. That didn't get the rating that they should have. All of your questions are VERY valid to say they aren't is just accepting things as they are. Which I think is being plain blind or pushing something into the corner. I especially liked question 2 and wholeheartedly agree!
Every single time this topic comes up I find it funny that it is always mediocre writers complaining about it. Every time...
I recently stumbled upon a writer on here who has a bunch of RRs. She only has like 9 friends on her list and I don't think any of them are mods. I have read two of her stories so far and they were both excellent. Some of the most original and interesting stories I have read on here. Obviously her ability to tell a story was what got her recognized by whatever mod awarded her some RRs.
I don't read all the RRs I see but I don't remember thinking any of them didn't deserve the recognition. I haven't read simmerdownchicks two RRs so maybe it really is bullshit, but from my experience, they seem legit for the most part. The editor's picks too. I only read one editor's pick which I thought was totally bogus but that was a long time ago and that was the only one. Not a bad record so far with finding a quality story with an EP.
I think many mediocre writers look for some kind of conspiracy as to why they don't get awarded RRs instead of you know, getting better at writing a memorable story with a beginning, middle and end, an engaging plot, natural and realistic sex scenes, intriguing characters and a few surprises. Validation comes from the people who read your stories and let you know in the comments. You can tell the difference from some generic comment and a comment from someone who really enjoyed your words. If your comments consist of the former, guess what? You're a mediocre writer. Just because you have 40 "whoa sexy story xx" comments doesn't mean you deserve awards 'n' shit.
Nobody ever writes something, posts it and thinks it's a dog turd. Writers are just like new parents. New parents always think they have a cute baby but we all know that not all babies are cute. Some are downright hideous and look like a tiny version of sloth from the goonies.
Jamie I think I can blow your theory out of the water. I have many Mod friends and I have 3 RRs. So if being a friend to a Mod gets you RRs , I would have RRs on all my stories. Also I have had a poem sit on #1 position for straight 31 days with NO RR and another that as been #2 and #3 for 3 weeks with NO RR. Also I am dating a Mod, so I think this proves your theory is wrong. I think the Mods are fair in where they put there RRs, Do I want RRs sure I do. But because I deserve them not because I have a Mod friend or Im dating a Mod.
Afterthought: The Editors Pick award is given by a grouo of people who are not the story mod team, although the pieces are recommended by them. That is a level all on its own, with various high-jump factors and merits being discussed and acheived within the piece, rather than the subjective, personal to the mod award of a Recommended Read. I think that's worth bearing in mind.
Ut incepit fidelis, sic permanet.
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This topic has been kicked around a bunch of times and I admit I'm indifferent to the claim these days. Ive been a mod for about 4 years and have handed out many RR's. Most of these have gone to people who didn't start of on my friends list, but who wrote something that stuck with me. That is what I'm looking for. Something that felt different and special. Many times those writers thank me and we discuss the work. Often that leads to a friend request.
So, if I could not hand out RR's to my friends, about 270 writers would instantly be ineligible. I don't see how that would be fair. I think my respect of the craft would make me unfriend everyone so that I could award work that deserved it. As has been shown above, I don't let personal relationships affect my choices. My girl and my sister both have to go through the same judgement as anyone else. Truthfully, I'm probably too hard on them. I invite anyone to look at their pages and see the truth of it.
The only bias I would have to admit to is this. If I think a writer is an asshole, I won't read them. Of course, that means they won't get a chance at the RR from me, regardless of how good the story might have been. I can't give the award if I won't read the work.
As a typical writer here who -- well, maybe I shouldn't assume that people are on here for the same reasons as I am.
I came onto this site a while back because I was looking for an outlet of sorts, and writing sexy stories seemed to be a good way to keep me out of trouble.
I write my stories primarily for me, but I can't be unaware of how they are received. You write enough of them, and you start to get a sense of how they will be received. Views, votes, comments, RRs, etc. (I don't mention EPs because I don't have any of those).
I've been fortunate enough to strike gold a decent amount of time with respect to the RRs. I have somewhere in the vicinity of 15 or so, maybe one or two more. My story count, however, is in the 60s, so what that means about my batting average, I'm not entirely sure. I am NOT saying this to brag. Rather, I'm pointing it out simply to avoid the criticism of possibly being frustrated and bitter over not getting RRs or whatever.
I will say that I often find the RR process mystifying. I've occasionally seen them awarded for stories I find average at best, and not given for works I find superior. Most of the time, however, I think that the stories that do have them are in fact quite good.
Any process that is subjective and to some extent opaque is going to inspire a certain amount of grousing and second-guessing. As someone else pointed out, no one writes and posts a story thinking that it sucks. Inevitably, some mods are going to be far more reserved when awarding RRs, and others more generous. We all know, or should know, that subjective things can't be perfectly consistent. Just like in high school or college, some instructors were easier graders, and others were trying to fight grade inflation single-handedly. If you got an A from the latter, you knew you had done something special.
Personally, I like that this process is subjective. Other systems can be gamed. "Hey, friendlist, if 200 of you all give my story a 5, then it will get an EP! I'll hit you back with 5s myself!"
Sure, it depends on a certain amount of luck. Is your mod in a good mood when modding? Are you writing the kind of stuff that is likely to move him/her? etc etc.
But on the whole I think it works, especially in the aggregate. Sometimes you *know* you've written a far better story without an RR than another that does have one. But on the whole, are the stories with RRs a serious cut above most of the stuff on the site? Damn skippy.
Yes, it's inconsistent. That's because it's subjective. I've seen mods either on this thread( or the other one about RRs that I'm reading simultaneously) say things like "In 6 months of modding, I maybe gave one RR." And I know from personal experience that other mods give them out far more freely.
But I try not to see them as my or anyone's due. (I can't lie and say I'm not disappointed when I think I've written a fantastic story that doesn't get one. But if I really do think the story is good, I get over it.) The best explanation or analogy I've seen is to the stickers at a bookstore or video store: "staff pick." It's a great bonus, and I think that air of mysterious "hitting the jackpot" when you get one is something that keeps me trying to improve as a writer. If I knew that I could just rope x number of friends into giving me a bunch of votes, or putting my stories through some automatically generated way of getting an accolade, I know I might be tempted to try. This just keeps me honest and trying to write better stories. I like trying to write better stories. Better stories are more likely to resonate with more people. Stories that resonate with more people are more likely to... well, you get the idea.
And sure, I get that inconsistency is frustrating. I know that sometimes my stories get approved without a single change, but they turn out to have some embarrassing goofs. On the other side of the spectrum, I've had friendly discussions about punctuation with my story mods (even to the level of hyphen versus em-dash), whereas I've seen stories go through that have accidentally retained an author's note to himself to go back and fix a particular paragraph. Yes, that can be annoying. "Here I am fixing a comma, and that story clearly didn't even get read all the way through."
But it's also human. Everyone here is fallible, and has made mistakes. We all know we miss things when we proofread our stuff. In fact it's a truism that it's hard to see your own mistakes. I have no idea what it's like to wade through umpteen stories, some of which must be godawful. Teachers who grade papers, especially when in a hurry, know that it's not hard to mark things correct even when they are wrong.
I like that this site is human. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, and most of the time, I don't want to (though sometimes I have to admit I get eaten alive by curiosity).
One thing I will say is that I got my first RR when I had either zero friends on the site, or perhaps one. At this point I think I have a fair number of mods on my friends list, and I don't think I get RRs more often now than before. If anything, it might be a little less frequently. (Who knows, maybe I pissed some of them off).
I GET why this whole thing can be frustrating. But I also think that no one's out to get anyone. While it's true that even paranoids have enemies, I don't think that that's the case here. Maybe I'm naive.
I'm all for as much of a human touch here as possible. Let's keep the RRs the way they are.
I think these queries and suggestions are valid and open a dialogue and agree with JC that there is a lot that remains open to question.... it is easy to observe what appears cliquey in nature or favouritism in this environment.
The general discussion of what deserves or what are the guidelines for awarding an RR are great questions... It is not about expecting accolades but a matter of curiosity and a wish for clarity and transparency, and even self-improvement, which these suggestions would facilitate.
When I worked at a bookstore, I had a recommended read shelf with my name on it. That's how I see the award here--a mod put my story on their shelf.
At the bookstore, I never had to justify my choices; I could switch them out as often as I liked. It was one of the few delights of holding a minimum wage, crap, customer service job. The mods don't even get the minimum wage part.
Every experience of being given a pat on the head has meant a huge amount to me (more than I can tell you), and I understand how frustrating it is to put your everything into something and get nothing. I've also seen pieces with awards that left me laughing my ass off that it could be recognised in such a way, and somebody was moved enough to want others to read it too. In the same way, I have seen some gems that I wouldn't have seen any other way.
