Full body scans

Quote by MrNudiePants

Quote by Dancing_Doll

Quote by Remington
Doll, let me put this into perspective for you. Say a guy who's 6'5" and weighs about 300 is trying to or rob you. There is no way you're escaping that situation unscathed. Put a gun in that purse of yours and you have now leveled the playing field. Your chances of getting away just dramatically increased. One of two things would happen, you pull the gun and he decides he's no longer interested or he is still aggressive and you have to pull the trigger. I never wish that upon anyone to actually have to use your gun in self defense. But having the gun should be a comforting feeling, knowing that you can minimize the threat if need be.

I'm done ranting for now.

Uhm... I weigh 118 lbs... its HIGHLY unlikely I will ever have a chance to pull that gun out of my purse if Brutus the Giant is trying to rob or me. I might have an opportunity to fumble with the latch on my purse in between all the commotion... at which point he will probably assume I am going for my gun and get really pissed and then cause me more physical harm.

Unless I have Charlie's Angels style weapons training, or the criminal in question isn't very 'criminally gifted'... I may just end up fucking up the situation even more and potentially getting myself killed. It's quite a gamble to take.

I'm assuming that Brutus has a gun (since they are plentiful)... so if he sneaks up on me and holds it to my head, you can sure bet that I'm not going to be reaching for my purse to start a pistol duel. I do think those scenes are awesome in Hollywood movies though.

Once again, the only time self-defense works here is if the criminal is unarmed (or armed with something less immediately lethal than a gun)... then maybe I have a shot (no pun intended). But what self-respecting is going to try to commit a crime without arming himself with the standard weaponry most of his potential victims are assumed to be carrying?

Owning a firearm doesn't turn you into Rambo, or one of Charlie's Angels. You have to train with the firearm, become proficient in it's use. You have to train yourself to become aware of your surroundings and the actions of the people around you. You have to take the mindset that you refuse to be a victim, no matter how big and brutal "Brutus" is. Once you've determined that you refuse to allow yourself to be a victim, you've started to even the odds. Criminals hate it when their prey has a fighting chance. Owning a firearm, and training with it, gives you one very capable tool out of a whole potential toolbox full of strategies you can use to keep yourself and your loved ones safe from harm.

If I could, I'd encourage all the ladies perusing this thread to visit Cat at A Cornered Cat dot com. It tells of the personal journey of one woman who made a conscious decision to say, "Not me. Not mine. Not today." I highly recommend it.

Quote by DamonX
Well, I've been won over. When I have a kid, I'm going to send him to elementary school with a 9mm in his lunchbox. That way, he'll definately be safe.



Now if you'll excuse me, I need to start stockpiling ammunition and bottled water for the upcoming race war.

Quote by MrNudiePants

1. United States... Guns Per 100: 90.............Murder rank: 24th
2. Yemen............Guns Per 100: 61..............Murder rank: 27th
3. Finland............Guns Per 100: 56..............Murder rank: 30th
4. Switzerland.....Guns Per 100: 46..............Murder rank: 56th
5. Iraq...............Guns Per 100: 39.............. Murder rank: Not listed. (Possibly because the ongoing military actions make "murder" a questionable term.)
6. Serbia............Guns Per 100: 38..............Murder rank: Also not listed. (Possibly due to lack of data?)
7. France............Guns Per 100: 32.............. Murder rank: 16th
8. Canada...........Guns Per 100: 31.............. Murder rank: 30th
8. Sweden...........Guns Per 100: 31..............Murder rank: 45th
8. Austria ...........Guns Per 100: 31.............. Murder rank: 65th

The countries with the highest murder rate were India, Russia, and Columbia, which come in at #31, #24, and #26 (respectively) in terms of gun ownership. Food for thought. But relax, Damon. I'm not pissed off at you. There are scads and scads of misunderstandings that non-gun-owners have about gun owners. We're all bloodthirsty morons with low IQ's and one eye brow. We're all alcoholics, and spouse abusers. We're all ticking time bombs, just waiting for the wrong moment to be set off. Right? When in reality, WE'RE JUST LIKE YOU. We love life, we love our fellow man, and we don't know where the tunnel goes when we reach the ends of our lives. One thing we DO know is that we're willing to fight for our lives, and our liberties. And most of us are willing to fight for our neighbors' lives, as well.

Quote by Jebru

I'm anti gun, so I'm biased, but I don't understand how you can look at these stats you posted, and then look at Dancing Doll's stats, and not think there is a co-relation between gun ownership, and gun deaths. The US is only ranked 24th per capita in the world when it comes to overall murders, but is 8th in gun murders. Doesn't that refute the idea that guns keep you safe?

It has been mentioned that you having a gun deters a criminal from trying anything. If that theory was correct, wouldn't your crime rate be the lowest of any country, considering you have more guns per capita than any other country, therefore the most deterance per capita of any country?

And yes, the 115 pound woman may be safer with her gun against a large attacker with no gun, but what happens if he has a gun? There is a huge difference between shooting at targets compared to shooting a person while under duress. What if she misses him? Before she pulled the gun, yes, she probably was going to be . After she shot at him, he can't risk her getting lucky and hitting him, so he's going to shoot her. And I'm betting on the attacker being able to remain calmer, and be more accurate than the woman being attacked.

Poll Question : Are full body scans at airports too intrusive?

Quote by Jebru
Michael Moore is an idiot, but I think he had a point when it comes to this issue. The US is a culture of fear. The media sensationalizes crime, knowing that people buy more newspapers, and pay attention to the newscasts more when there is something scary being reported. The politicians use fear to convince the public that there is something out there that they need to be protected from, and that the politicians have the solution.

Other factors also come in to play. Population density for one. The urban areas have higher crime rates in part because you don't have the space you would in a rural area to stay away from a neighbour who is annoying you. Economic factors too. When you have a large group of people who see no legal way out of the situation, they will resort to illegal ones.

But fear seems to be the thing that drives gun ownership the most. I think every gun owner on this thread said they have their gun to keep them safe. For some people, in rougher neighbourhoods, I can understand that argument. It's dangerous and you have to make a show of strength to gain respect and be left alone. But for the average family in suburbia, why are you so concerned about something that is most likely never going to happen?

I live in Windsor, Ontario. It's one of the roughest, and most crime troubled cities in Canada. People are careful about what they do, and where they go late at night. But I don't hear people talking about feeling they need a gun to be safe. Maybe we are naive, but we just don't fear crime. We realise that we could be the victim of crime, but we choose to enjoy life, rather than live every day in fear that one day we might be a victim. If you live each day in fear of being attacked, haven't the criminals already taken away your freedom?

Quote by Necho
This is so funny, Ive been tormented on airports so many times.

I dont really care as long as they dont strip search me, thats just bloody scary man.

Quote by thepainter
This is expectedly like an adult version of "The neverending story".

I'd like to know how many of the gun owners actually have been in a situation where they actually needed to use their fire weapon. And what kind of situation was it? What was the outcome?
Also, it's one thing to shoot at practice targets, shooting at an actual human being who is probably not standing still is an entirely different thing. Have you actually shot a human being? It's easy to say you'll do it if you ever feel it's required to save your life but to actually be in that situation and doing it is another thing.

Nowadays everyone in Europe says that of course they would stand up against the Nazis. This is called the "hindsight bias".
Saying you'll use the gun is obviously no hindsight bias but it's another bias form. Researchers often send around questionnaires asking people how they would respond in certain situations. And after having received the answers they follow-up with actually putting those people in those situations. Wanna guess the correlations between what people said and what people actually did?

Quote by Necho
This is so funny, Ive been tormented on airports so many times.

I dont really care as long as they dont strip search me, thats just bloody scary man.

Quote by MrNudiePants

Quote by thepainter
This is expectedly like an adult version of "The neverending story".

I'd like to know how many of the gun owners actually have been in a situation where they actually needed to use their fire weapon. And what kind of situation was it? What was the outcome?
Also, it's one thing to shoot at practice targets, shooting at an actual human being who is probably not standing still is an entirely different thing. Have you actually shot a human being? It's easy to say you'll do it if you ever feel it's required to save your life but to actually be in that situation and doing it is another thing.

Nowadays everyone in Europe says that of course they would stand up against the Nazis. This is called the "hindsight bias".
Saying you'll use the gun is obviously no hindsight bias but it's another bias form. Researchers often send around questionnaires asking people how they would respond in certain situations. And after having received the answers they follow-up with actually putting those people in those situations. Wanna guess the correlations between what people said and what people actually did?

How does that affect the validity of our arguments? I hope I never have to use a firearm in self defense. I hope I never have to use my fire extinguisher to save my kitchen. I hope I never have to stand up against Nazis. The reality that I MAY have to is enough to make me keep my fire extinguisher fully charged.

Quote by MrNudiePants

Quote by Necho
This is so funny, Ive been tormented on airports so many times.

I dont really care as long as they dont strip search me, thats just bloody scary man.

Personally, I wouldn't care if they DID strip-search me, as long as they strip-search everyone else getting on the plane, too. As a nudist, I don't have any fear or hangups about being nude in public.

Quote by thepainter


The "validity" is subjective, as are both sides of arguments to this debate. I'm merely pointing out that saying something and doing something are two different things. Most people claim they would do "the right thing" but when actually faced with the situation do something completely different.
You can say the odds are evened when you have a gun but if you've never shot at a moving human being and the person threating you has then you're still at a disadvantage.
Or would you then argue to go practice shooting at live targets to even the odds even further?

The reality that you MAY have to use your fire arm in self defense is a very small chance for most citizens. If you have a subjective sense that you feel safer with a gun just in case you might ever need it to defend yourself, that's fine with me, just like Damon, Dancing_Doll etc. have said.

As I've said when it all started down this spiral discussion, agree to disagree. Neither side will manage to persuade the other.

Quote by thepainter

Quote by MrNudiePants

Quote by Necho
This is so funny, Ive been tormented on airports so many times.

I dont really care as long as they dont strip search me, thats just bloody scary man.

Personally, I wouldn't care if they DID strip-search me, as long as they strip-search everyone else getting on the plane, too. As a nudist, I don't have any fear or hangups about being nude in public.

Lame question, but where do you pack your concealed weapon while practicing being a nudist?

Quote by DamonX
I know guns can be fun. I've had fun with guns before. I've also had fun with cocaine, but I don't think making it legal would be in society's best interests.

I also agree that banning guns in the US would not work. Its too late. But that doesn't mean that being lenient on firearms was a good idea in the first place. It would probably be ok in a society where everyone was relatively equal and the existing crime rate was relatively low, but combining easy access to guns with a large number of citizens inhabiting low socioeconomic status is a recipe for disaster. I, for one, am pleased that I've only been attacked with brass knuckles and bottles.

And I don't think there's any confusion. Nobody is suggesting that you personally are more likely to commit a crime because you have access to guns.

I would comment on the 2nd amendment, but I think I've said my piece concerning that. Seems like people will interpret that the way they want to in order to suit their own needs.

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you about arming high school students though. I doubt you'll find many supporters for that idea.

Quote by Jebru
Michael Moore is an idiot, but I think he had a point when it comes to this issue. The US is a culture of fear. The media sensationalizes crime, knowing that people buy more newspapers, and pay attention to the newscasts more when there is something scary being reported. The politicians use fear to convince the public that there is something out there that they need to be protected from, and that the politicians have the solution.

Other factors also come in to play. Population density for one. The urban areas have higher crime rates in part because you don't have the space you would in a rural area to stay away from a neighbour who is annoying you. Economic factors too. When you have a large group of people who see no legal way out of the situation, they will resort to illegal ones.

But fear seems to be the thing that drives gun ownership the most. I think every gun owner on this thread said they have their gun to keep them safe. For some people, in rougher neighbourhoods, I can understand that argument. It's dangerous and you have to make a show of strength to gain respect and be left alone. But for the average family in suburbia, why are you so concerned about something that is most likely never going to happen?

I live in Windsor, Ontario. It's one of the roughest, and most crime troubled cities in Canada. People are careful about what they do, and where they go late at night. But I don't hear people talking about feeling they need a gun to be safe. Maybe we are naive, but we just don't fear crime. We realise that we could be the victim of crime, but we choose to enjoy life, rather than live every day in fear that one day we might be a victim. If you live each day in fear of being attacked, haven't the criminals already taken away your freedom?

Quote by thepainter
This is expectedly like an adult version of "The neverending story".

I'd like to know how many of the gun owners actually have been in a situation where they actually needed to use their fire weapon. And what kind of situation was it? What was the outcome?
Also, it's one thing to shoot at practice targets, shooting at an actual human being who is probably not standing still is an entirely different thing. Have you actually shot a human being? It's easy to say you'll do it if you ever feel it's required to save your life but to actually be in that situation and doing it is another thing.

Quote by baker992009
I read a story recently out of the US about a guy who was the victim of a full body scan. He was hired to install one of these scanners at an airport and was the victim of teasing from fellow workers as to how small his penis was. He took matters into his own hands. He cornered his tormentor... had him down on his knees .. forced it to apologize for teasing him then beat hiom with a club... put him in hospital. He now awaits trial for assult and battery

Quote by baker992009
I read a story recently out of the US about a guy who was the victim of a full body scan. He was hired to install one of these scanners at an airport and was the victim of teasing from fellow workers as to how small his penis was. He took matters into his own hands. He cornered his tormentor... had him down on his knees .. forced it to apologize for teasing him then beat hiom with a club... put him in hospital. He now awaits trial for assult and battery

Quote by Remington

Quote by Jebru
Michael Moore is an idiot, but I think he had a point when it comes to this issue. The US is a culture of fear. The media sensationalizes crime, knowing that people buy more newspapers, and pay attention to the newscasts more when there is something scary being reported. The politicians use fear to convince the public that there is something out there that they need to be protected from, and that the politicians have the solution.

Other factors also come in to play. Population density for one. The urban areas have higher crime rates in part because you don't have the space you would in a rural area to stay away from a neighbour who is annoying you. Economic factors too. When you have a large group of people who see no legal way out of the situation, they will resort to illegal ones.

But fear seems to be the thing that drives gun ownership the most. I think every gun owner on this thread said they have their gun to keep them safe. For some people, in rougher neighbourhoods, I can understand that argument. It's dangerous and you have to make a show of strength to gain respect and be left alone. But for the average family in suburbia, why are you so concerned about something that is most likely never going to happen?

I live in Windsor, Ontario. It's one of the roughest, and most crime troubled cities in Canada. People are careful about what they do, and where they go late at night. But I don't hear people talking about feeling they need a gun to be safe. Maybe we are naive, but we just don't fear crime. We realise that we could be the victim of crime, but we choose to enjoy life, rather than live every day in fear that one day we might be a victim. If you live each day in fear of being attacked, haven't the criminals already taken away your freedom?

If you look at states like Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Arizona who all are pretty much pro gun, you'll see their crime rates are relatively low. States like California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Wisconsin are anti gun with higher crime rates. Washington D.C. has a gun ban yet their crime rate is one of the highest in the nation. Same with Chicago.

Quote by DamonX

Quote by Remington

Quote by Jebru
Michael Moore is an idiot, but I think he had a point when it comes to this issue. The US is a culture of fear. The media sensationalizes crime, knowing that people buy more newspapers, and pay attention to the newscasts more when there is something scary being reported. The politicians use fear to convince the public that there is something out there that they need to be protected from, and that the politicians have the solution.

Other factors also come in to play. Population density for one. The urban areas have higher crime rates in part because you don't have the space you would in a rural area to stay away from a neighbour who is annoying you. Economic factors too. When you have a large group of people who see no legal way out of the situation, they will resort to illegal ones.

But fear seems to be the thing that drives gun ownership the most. I think every gun owner on this thread said they have their gun to keep them safe. For some people, in rougher neighbourhoods, I can understand that argument. It's dangerous and you have to make a show of strength to gain respect and be left alone. But for the average family in suburbia, why are you so concerned about something that is most likely never going to happen?

I live in Windsor, Ontario. It's one of the roughest, and most crime troubled cities in Canada. People are careful about what they do, and where they go late at night. But I don't hear people talking about feeling they need a gun to be safe. Maybe we are naive, but we just don't fear crime. We realise that we could be the victim of crime, but we choose to enjoy life, rather than live every day in fear that one day we might be a victim. If you live each day in fear of being attacked, haven't the criminals already taken away your freedom?

If you look at states like Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Arizona who all are pretty much pro gun, you'll see their crime rates are relatively low. States like California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Wisconsin are anti gun with higher crime rates. Washington D.C. has a gun ban yet their crime rate is one of the highest in the nation. Same with Chicago.

Banning guns in one state doesn't really do anything. How hard is it to transport guns across state lines? By increasing accessiblity of guns in the country, you increase the risk of guns falling into the hands of people who will use them for criminal activity. Nobody is claiming that registered gun owners in Montana are more likely to commit crime. Its when they filter down into inner city areas and low income areas that problems arise. And the majority of crimes are committed by unregistered guns and unlicenced gun owners so stats about gun ownership are not really relevant.

I think you guys are mistaken about our position. Nobody is claiming that simply because you own a gun, you are more likely to commit a crime using that gun. You are taking an individual approach: "I have a gun and it makes me feel safe."

We are using a broader, sociological approach. Your society has easy access to guns, and...your rate of gun crime is off the charts. Or course, this is just correlation and not direct causation, but it seems pretty clear. If you feel the need to have a gun for protection...ok. Your society is already flooded with them, so it makes sense that you would want one for protection. But wouldn't you rather not need to carry one in the first place?

And how many of you have guns simply for protection? I know Ladyx does, but it seems that most of you guys just like guns because they're fun. I get that. I used to like guns too. I grew out of it when I turned 15, but I can see the appeal. But try and view things from a broader perspective. You can obviously post news articles about homeowners shooting invaders, but these are isolated incidents and don't really paint the proper picture of the state of your society.

Do I think that the government should take away your guns? No.
Would your rate of gun crime be lower if you had restrictions similar to the rest of the western world? Yeah, probably.

It would be refreshing to hear someone say "I like guns because they're fun!" and not try to justify it by stating the 2nd amendment or try to convince everyone else that "an armed society is a safe society."