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donald trump for president

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amy1967
Unfuckwithable
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Quote by patokl


What you and most people, reading these statistics do not realise, is that unlike native-born people, immigrants who come in contact with the criminal justice system, for instance because of a misdemeanor, are very likely to end up incarcerated for an undetermined period, before being deported and barred from returning. The ones who are rounded up by ICE are also incarcerated, until they can be deported. When you subtract those numbers from your statistics, they change significantly.

In fact, more than a century of studies have confirmed that immigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and that high rates of immigration are associated with lower rates of violent crime and property crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education. In other words, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are not “criminals” by any commonly accepted definition of the term.
(Yes, I've copied and pasted some too)

More about that (just a few of many):
- https://www.cato.org/blog/immigration-crime-what-research-says
- http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/fact-check-immigration-doesnt-bring-crime-u-s-data-say/
- https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states?utm_content=buffercf974&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer
- https://www.policefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Appendix-D_0.pdf


Well said and well documented. Simply citing meaningless statistics without looking into those numbers leads to so many false conclusions, the least f which is the perception that we have an immigration crime epidemic in this country. We do not. It's alt-right propaganda to normalize the persecution of a minority group. Any of us could copy and paste a whole host of numbers and opinions from Wikipedia or anywhere else on the internet and then use them to back up either side of an argument. Where the Sundance Kid loses everyone is his holier than thou attitude and his outright condescension and belittling of anyone who dares disagree. Funny how all the alt-right trolls display that same attitude. It's almost as if they're engaging defense mechanisms as part of their arguments.
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by sundancer2004


When people are so ignorant as to cause their own demise and mis fortunes, mother natures way is to cull out the herd. I guess she is a "Nazi" also. Keep blindly following. Yes the man had a unfortunate choice of words, however the constitution ensures what you purport to fear will not come to fruition. in typical Liberal fashion , should one disagree with your opinion you label then a racist, nazi racist, mysoginist , or anything that conveniently come to mind. Should you make an effort to check, you would note your behavior was conspicuous by its absence from those that do not support your opinion.
If you make an effort to read, fragile flower, you would see that you were writing about people culling the herd of other people. I didn't label anyone, I just pointed out a truth. If you're going to use Nazi terminology, someone ius going to mention it. Also, you misspelled misogynist.
Make an effort to check your spelling, sunshine. Try picking on somebody else, or are you one of those big strong men who only pick on women because you think they won't fight back?
[url]http://[/url]
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by sundancer2004
Don't need any help sweetie, its obvious your part of the failed generation spawned by a failed generation that knows nothing of which they speak , you have all the answers , you just don't know the questions.


I agree. It was your generation that failed and got us into this. The problem is you are trying to keep us in the mess you created.
[url]http://[/url]
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by hayley


I did read it... actually there is a bit that sticks out ... how they arrive at the figure of about 11 million illegal immigrants. I have often wondered how they counted the number of illegal immigrants if they don't know where they are. I have to admit to taking two coffee breaks during my reading....





They arrived at that number by pulling it out of their ass. Did you know that 70% of food in this country is picked by immigrants? Trump used illegal immigrants to build his hotels. If people didn't hire them for the cheap labor, none of them would be working.
[url]http://[/url]
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by sundancer2004


When people are so ignorant as to cause their own demise and mis fortunes, mother natures way is to cull out the herd. I guess she is a "Nazi" also. Keep blindly following. Yes the man had a unfortunate choice of words, however the constitution ensures what you purport to fear will not come to fruition. in typical Liberal fashion , should one disagree with your opinion you label then a racist, nazi racist, mysoginist , or anything that conveniently come to mind. Should you make an effort to check, you would note your behavior was conspicuous by its absence from those that do not support your opinion.


Do you need a safe space, sweetie?
[url]http://[/url]
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by sundancer2004


When people are so ignorant as to cause their own demise and mis fortunes, mother natures way is to cull out the herd. I guess she is a "Nazi" also. Keep blindly following. Yes the man had a unfortunate choice of words, however the constitution ensures what you purport to fear will not come to fruition. in typical Liberal fashion , should one disagree with your opinion you label then a racist, nazi racist, mysoginist , or anything that conveniently come to mind. Should you make an effort to check, you would note your behavior was conspicuous by its absence from those that do not support your opinion.


Do you need a safe space, sweetie?
[url]http://[/url]
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by sundancer2004
Quote by amy1967
President Trump introduces Victims Of Immigration Crime Engagement office created out of the Department of Homeland Security.

Now if that isn't a chapter out of the Nazi playbook, I don't know what is. Well, there's demonizing the free "lying" press, putting cronies and Generals in high government positions, massive buildup of the military industrial complex, scapegoating the ills of society on minorities, the stated intention to beef up law and order to battle a non-existent rise in crime. But aside from all that, no fascism here.

Victims of Immigration Crime. Wow. Of course if he wanted to create a burueacracy dedicated to the victims of crime and help the most people, it'd be called the Victims of American on American Crime. But that's not Nazi enough, so let's put all in eggs in the "brown people are the root of all problems" basket instead. It feeds the racist Trump base and demonizes immigrants and, in his mind, legitimizes the trampling of the Constitution in the name of border security.

I've felt it for sometime, but I can safely say that as of right now, I'm horribly ashamed of my country and what's become of it in only 1 short month. I feel like crying.

But I won't cry. I will, with every fiber of my being, Resist!


Oh, and just in case you're curious about how dangerous outsiders are vs. our own domestic good old fashioned American on American crime:


Government statistics show that, except for some small blips, serious crime has decreased almost every year from 1994 through 2013. For over a decade Gallup has found that the majority of Americans polled believe crime is up, contrary to the fact that crime rates have plummeted in almost every small and large city since the 1990s. This is not to say that all cities and areas are experiencing decreases in violent crime year after year, but the overall rate of violent crime is significantly lower than historic levels.Brookings. The same trend is evident in the realm of “gun crime.” Per a Pew analysis of DOJ

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/427758/careful-panic-violent-crime-and-gun-crime-are-both-dropping-charles-c-w-cooke


It's your side that is trying to assert that we have a high crime rate. The right wants to engender the idea that we are all in danger. Most of the people killed in terrorist attacks since 9/11 were killed out by right wing loons. They didn't all use guns, of course. Some like Timmy McVeigh did his killing with bombs. Or didn't you know that, sweetums? Try opening your eyes and see what's really going on.
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Your_Rock
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From the outside looking in I think people should stop protesting about the man and protest the system that allowed two despicable candidates to be the only choices to lead the free world. I dont see a vote for Trump as a vote for Trump but a vote against a political regime that has promised much and delivered nothing for years. People voted for a change. Apart from being a loud mouthed buffoon I havent seen Trump do anything wrong. It is refreshing to see a political candidate actually signing papers in an effort to deliver on the promises he made during the election.
Guest
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Quote by Your_Rock
From the outside looking in I think people should stop protesting about the man and protest the system that allowed two despicable candidates to be the only choices to lead the free world. I dont see a vote for Trump as a vote for Trump but a vote against a political regime that has promised much and delivered nothing for years. People voted for a change. Apart from being a loud mouthed buffoon I havent seen Trump do anything wrong. It is refreshing to see a political candidate actually signing papers in an effort to deliver on the promises he made during the election.




Nine pages is all it took to find someone who actually gets it!

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Quote by Ruthie


They arrived at that number by pulling it out of their ass. Did you know that 70% of food in this country is picked by immigrants? Trump used illegal immigrants to build his hotels. If people didn't hire them for the cheap labor, none of them would be working.


I didn't know it as as high as 70%. I am used to living in a country where seasonal labour is picked by visitors... that is overseas workers ... who come on temporary visas and exit when the season is over or their visa expires. We didn't call them immigrants, because they weren't. Why doesn't the same scheme apply here?.
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Quote by Ruthie


They arrived at that number by pulling it out of their ass. Did you know that 70% of food in this country is picked by immigrants? Trump used illegal immigrants to build his hotels. If people didn't hire them for the cheap labor, none of them would be working.


I have had this accusation about President Trump and his hotels thrown at me on the Forum before, by Adele I think. I have also had the fact that he used Chinese steel sprouted at me. My belief is that Donald Trump would have hired an architectural practice and a civil/structural engineering practice, together with a reputable construction company, to build each of his hotels... except if he had only a licensing agreement. Now I doubt he would have bothered to ask the immigration status of any of those parties' employees or where they were sourcing their building materials from. It just doesn't happen.
Who in building a house asks their building company the status of their employees or where the materials are sourced?
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by hayley


I didn't know it as as high as 70%. I am used to living in a country where seasonal labour is picked by visitors... that is overseas workers ... who come on temporary visas and exit when the season is over or their visa expires. We didn't call them immigrants, because they weren't. Why doesn't the same scheme apply here?.


It's cheaper to let them find their own way into the country and have them as illegals so as to pay them less, then threaten them with deportation when they complain they don't make enough. There are chicken processing plants in my area which depend on illegal immigrants. I'm sure they get tip offs if ICE is coming. The local economy would really drop without them. Also, they help keep wages low by being willing to work for less. You know Republicans love low wages. All this talk about illegal immigrants is just for votes. I'd be shocked if anything significant was done. Try to convince the conservative voter that we need to allow eleven million foreigners to come and take jobs. They won't go for that. It's easier to just let them sneak in and make noises about them during election cycles.

Some Americans would be happy to use slave labor.
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Your_Rock
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Quote by amy1967
President Trump introduces Victims Of Immigration Crime Engagement office created out of the Department of Homeland Security.

Now if that isn't a chapter out of the Nazi playbook, I don't know what is. Well, there's demonizing the free "lying" press, putting cronies and Generals in high government positions, massive buildup of the military industrial complex, scapegoating the ills of society on minorities, the stated intention to beef up law and order to battle a non-existent rise in crime. But aside from all that, no fascism here.

Victims of Immigration Crime. Wow. Of course if he wanted to create a burueacracy dedicated to the victims of crime and help the most people, it'd be called the Victims of American on American Crime. But that's not Nazi enough, so let's put all in eggs in the "brown people are the root of all problems" basket instead. It feeds the racist Trump base and demonizes immigrants and, in his mind, legitimizes the trampling of the Constitution in the name of border security.

I've felt it for sometime, but I can safely say that as of right now, I'm horribly ashamed of my country and what's become of it in only 1 short month. I feel like crying.

But I won't cry. I will, with every fiber of my being, Resist!


Oh, and just in case you're curious about how dangerous outsiders are vs. our own domestic good old fashioned American on American crime:


Your_Rock
Rookie Scribe
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Immigrants arent only brown. Unfortunately a lot of people seem to have a skewered vision where they think when you mention immigrants you are talking about those with brown skin or different shaped eyes. I bet there are plenty of dangerous illegal immigrants from english speaking countries in the USA. Would be interesting to know if they are part of the 11 million in the roundup.

I wonder if the native americans are thinking the number to be round up should be nearer 320 million..........
adele
Weaver of Words
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Quote by hayley


I have had this accusation about President Trump and his hotels thrown at me on the Forum before, by Adele I think. I have also had the fact that he used Chinese steel sprouted at me. My belief is that Donald Trump would have hired an architectural practice and a civil/structural engineering practice, together with a reputable construction company, to build each of his hotels... except if he had only a licensing agreement. Now I doubt he would have bothered to ask the immigration status of any of those parties' employees or where they were sourcing their building materials from. It just doesn't happen.
Who in building a house asks their building company the status of their employees or where the materials are sourced?



There you go again, misquoting me. you do that so often, it is getting laughable. I said the workers he used did have visas, but that he ignored applications from americans because he knew the "guest workers" would work cheaper and not complain about conditions. and several people have provided examples of using roofing and other contractors that came in with the lowest bids because they knew that they were using illegal workers they paid under the table, so guess what? a lot of people know. and he used them to build trump tower in NYC and at mar-lago-club in florida, and both those are more than just a licensing agreement. and if he didn't know what his contractors were doing and that they were using china steel, that sure as hell makes him a pretty lousy business man IMHO.
patokl
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Quote by hayley


I have had this accusation about President Trump and his hotels thrown at me on the Forum before, by Adele I think. I have also had the fact that he used Chinese steel sprouted at me. My belief is that Donald Trump would have hired an architectural practice and a civil/structural engineering practice, together with a reputable construction company, to build each of his hotels... except if he had only a licensing agreement. Now I doubt he would have bothered to ask the immigration status of any of those parties' employees or where they were sourcing their building materials from. It just doesn't happen.
Who in building a house asks their building company the status of their employees or where the materials are sourced?

Trump certainly knows the immigration status of the 64 new members of his Mar a Lago staff, for whom he was granted H2B visa last October. He still hires foreign workers, for jobs he claims he can't find Americans for. Yet since 2010, nearly 300 U.S. residents applied or were referred for jobs as waiters, waitresses, cooks and housekeepers there, but only 17 were hired.

Over the same time period, 500 visas for foreign workers were filed at Mar-a-Lago.

In Palm Beach County, Tom Veenstra, senior director of support services at CareerSource, a job placement service, took issue with Mr. Trump’s contention that he could not staff his clubs with locals. “We have hundreds of qualified applicants for jobs like those,” he said.

After a report by Reuters in July about Mr. Trump’s use of guest workers, executives from Mar-a-Lago met with recruiters from Mr. Veenstra’s agency, promising to request local workers for 50 positions.

But Mar-a-Lago sent over just a single job request, for a banquet server. Mr. Veenstra said CareerSource referred four applicants to the club, and one of them got the job.

Since then, Mr. Veenstra said, “we haven’t received any other job orders.”
A little kindness can be so valuable, yet costs almost nothing

In many countries being gay is a crime, and even in modern societies, politicians try to legalise discrimination. Your voice can make a difference. Have a look at All Out to find out how.

Hey... pssst.... that's an l (as in luscious) at the end of my name, not an i
Ruthie
Empress of the Moon
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Quote by hayley



Who in building a house asks their building company the status of their employees or where the materials are sourced?



The builder?
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Guest
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Quote by Ruthie


The builder?


Exactly ... not the owner of the finished building.. the one paying for it.
adele
Weaver of Words
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Quote by Ruthie


The builder?


the owner who hires the builder usually has a pretty good idea in many cases when they select the builder that came in with a much lower bid for say a roofing job. this was stated by more than 1 person in other threads. and especially if the owner sees a bunch of people speaking nothing but spanish or some other foreign language, and working all day to replace a roof and only getting one small break for lunch and the temperature is 95 degrees. and if the owner of a commercial building doesn't pay attention to who the workers are, or what material is being used to build something he is paying for, then he is a pretty poor business man.
patokl
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Quote by hayley
Quote by Ruthie


The builder?


Exactly ... not the owner of the finished building.. the one paying for it.

For any person, businessman or not, who seriously believes, that work in America should lead to jobs for Americans, the composition of the workforce they'd be hiring by giving a contract, would be an important selection criterium. If Trump wasn't aware he was indirectly hiring foreign labourers, then he obviously didn't care about it then. The fact, that he still actively hires foreign labourers, in spite of the availability of qualified Americans, shows, that he still doesn't care. His statements about it obviously do not reflect his true feelings about it, they are only meant to gather votes and support, to get to and stay in the White House. All he wants to boost, are his power, his wealth, and his enormous ego, the rest is instrumental.
A little kindness can be so valuable, yet costs almost nothing

In many countries being gay is a crime, and even in modern societies, politicians try to legalise discrimination. Your voice can make a difference. Have a look at All Out to find out how.

Hey... pssst.... that's an l (as in luscious) at the end of my name, not an i
apptobebad
Unfuckwithable
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Quote by patokl

For any person, businessman or not, who seriously believes, that work in America should lead to jobs for Americans, the composition of the workforce they'd be hiring by giving a contract, would be an important selection criterium. If Trump wasn't aware he was indirectly hiring foreign labourers, then he obviously didn't care about it then. The fact, that he still actively hires foreign labourers, in spite of the availability of qualified Americans, shows, that he still doesn't care. His statements about it obviously do not reflect his true feelings about it, they are only meant to gather votes and support, to get to and stay in the White House. All he wants to boost, are his power, his wealth, and his enormous ego, the rest is instrumental.


IMHO that sums him up to a 'T'. He doesnt give a shit about the supporters. His ego was really hurt when he realised that Hillary actually got more votes than him and therefore the 'popular vote'. He is still playing make believe and trying to convince himself that he is more popular. Poor deluded narcissist.
You should first read this Looky Here!!

and then this Free stuff

then say 'Hi'
adele
Weaver of Words
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Quote by apptobebad



Quote by patokl

For any person, businessman or not, who seriously believes, that work in America should lead to jobs for Americans, the composition of the workforce they'd be hiring by giving a contract, would be an important selection criterium. If Trump wasn't aware he was indirectly hiring foreign labourers, then he obviously didn't care about it then. The fact, that he still actively hires foreign labourers, in spite of the availability of qualified Americans, shows, that he still doesn't care. His statements about it obviously do not reflect his true feelings about it, they are only meant to gather votes and support, to get to and stay in the White House. All he wants to boost, are his power, his wealth, and his enormous ego, the rest is instrumental.


IMHO that sums him up to a 'T'. He doesnt give a shit about the supporters. His ego was really hurt when he realised that Hillary actually got more votes than him and therefore the 'popular vote'. He is still playing make belive and trying to convince himself that he is more popular. Poor deluded narcissist.



exactly! he has proven time and time again that what he says is not what he believes. he even says in his book “I play to people’s fantasies. . . . People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration—and it’s a very effective form of promotion.” he says what he thinks people want to hear. when faced with facts, he will often blame others. and as patokl said, he knows that his businesses use guest workers rather than American workers. if he doesn't, then he certainly isn't the businessman he claims to be.
sundancer2004
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Quote by Ruthie


You're awfully thin skinned, snowflake.
I am a deplorable
sundancer2004
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Quote by Ruthie


"...culling out the herd?" If you talk like a Nazi you're going to be called out for it. do you even know what nazism was about.

sundancer2004
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Quote by hayley


We voted him into office because he was the best choice offered.

As in the last several elections we only have a choice of the best of a poor litter
sundancer2004
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Quote by patokl

Excellently copied and pasted. But it says nothing about the correlation between crime rate and immigration.

What you and most people, reading these statistics do not realise, is that unlike native-born people, immigrants who come in contact with the criminal justice system, for instance because of a misdemeanor, are very likely to end up incarcerated for an undetermined period, before being deported and barred from returning. The ones who are rounded up by ICE are also incarcerated, until they can be deported. When you subtract those numbers from your statistics, they change significantly.

In fact, more than a century of studies have confirmed that immigrants are less likely to commit serious crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and that high rates of immigration are associated with lower rates of violent crime and property crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the unauthorized, regardless of their country of origin or level of education. In other words, the overwhelming majority of immigrants are not “criminals” by any commonly accepted definition of the term.
(Yes, I've copied and pasted some too)

More about that (just a few of many):
- https://www.cato.org/blog/immigration-crime-what-research-says
- http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/fact-check-immigration-doesnt-bring-crime-u-s-data-say/
- https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states?utm_content=buffercf974&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer
- https://www.policefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Appendix-D_0.pdf


Patoki I do very much understand the system and how it works. I worked within the system. Your absolutely wrong, immigrants that interact with the CJ system are no less susceptible to incarceration than a native born. The incarceration is determined by the crime, not the status.

Agreed, the majority of immigrants are not Criminals. Except in the case of the Marial Boat lift. Given the history of Muslim belief that all who do not submit to the Koran are infidels and deserving of death, it would be a fair assumption that allowing large groups of "refugees" from a demonstrated radical muslim country, said refugees predominantly male with a lack of females, they will continue to espouse their radical beliefs.

Nothing wrong with pasting. I have pasted items from the Department Of Justice records with the hopes that those reading would research further. alas, in vain.

The confirmation study of immigrants being less likely to commit crimes was particularly germain to the late 18th and early 19th century, when they integrated themselves into society and embraced their new country. This is not so with this present influx from Muslim based countries. Nazi Germany intended "a new world order". Muslim belief intends to create "a new world order". One wanted white supremacy, the other religious supremacy . During the Criminal Gangs period in the States, many of those were run by immigrants, the same applies with LaCosta Nostra.

The Muslim believe in religious supremacy is no stranger to the United States. One only need U.S. History during the term of Thomas Jefferson.

You and I can conduct research on the same subject and be at opposite ends. Private research is a good reference, nothing more. It is a subjective opinion. besides that, I enjoyed reading you. Have a great Day.
sundancer2004
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Quote by Ruthie


"...culling out the herd?" If you talk like a Nazi you're going to be called out for it.


Nazi Germany was seeking a new world order consisting of white aryan nation with mass disposition of those of Israeli belief. No where in the Trump mishap is anyone calling for the extermination of a race. fact.

The stupid things people do that results in their early demise is culling out the herd, again not mass execution.
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Quote by sundancer2004
As in the last several elections we only have a choice of the best of a poor litter


Do you think it will ever change? What about Mark Zuckerberg for 2024 [Democrats]? I think Hillary reinvented for 2020.
sundancer2004
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Quote by apptobebad
oh dear..

Let me see if I can explain this so that you will understand.





You are absolutely right!! All those shootings of one American by another American count as one American being shot by another American. Well done.

Now, to say the facts are skewed, with no evidence to back it up really is a pretty poor argument..or one could say it is just your preconceived belief.






Point being your stats are from private research, a good reference not factual . These "research projects" are designed to reflect the beliefs of certain special interest groups, not the interest of the general public. Therefore, the facts are skewed. AS I said before Ruthis, You and I and several others could apply for funding to conduct research, granted funds and begin. Each of us, could if we so desired, include fact we wanted and conveniently ignore those that contest our perception. let me return the condescension. I hope I put this so you understand.......smile
sundancer2004
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Quote by patokl

Where did I mention Obamacare? Of course it isn't perfect. If it were, America would not score so low in the ratings of health care quality and life expectancy. But at least Obama tried to make things better, Trump only promised to tear things down.
If Trump wants America great again (apparently he doesn't believe it's a great nation), he should start by making America healthy first.

"Availability of Medical Care" would be reference to Obamacare