New Competition Announcement: Le Noir Erotique

Quote by Jen

Honestly, this is the first I've heard of that, so not intentional, but good that it fits in!

Maybe it can unintentionally happen on another year? Max Word Count Comp only in November!

Today is the 80th birthday of the great director Martin Scorsese.

A reason to remember that Scorsese made 4 of his greatest films in equal partnership with his screenwriter (and director himself!) Paul Schrader.

Well - via the detour Scorsese/ Schrader I get to what I actually wanted to remind you of:

This same Paul Schrader published his now classic essay "Notes on film noir" in 1972 - and that's also a 50th anniversary!

Above all, I would have wished that one or the other of our authors would have taken a look at the text before hastily submitting their story to the Noir Erotique competition... 😉

Just a small sample:

"Film noir is not a genre (...) It is not defined, as are the western and gangster genres, by conventions of setting and conflict, but rather by the more subtle qualities of tone and mood."

"There is a love of romantic narration. (...) the narration creates a mood of temps perdu: an irretrievable past, a predetermined fate and an all-enveloping hopelessness. (...) one can only take pleasure in reliving a doomed past."

Quote by Lynkeus

Today is the 80th birthday of the great director Martin Scorsese.

A reason to remember that Scorsese made 4 of his greatest films in equal partnership with his screenwriter (and director himself!) Paul Schrader.

Well - via the detour Scorsese/ Schrader I get to what I actually wanted to remind you of:

This same Paul Schrader published his now classic essay "Notes on film noir" in 1972 - and that's also a 50th anniversary!

Above all, I would have wished that one or the other of our authors would have taken a look at the text before hastily submitting their story to the Noir Erotique competition... 😉

Just a small sample:

"Film noir is not a genre (...) It is not defined, as are the western and gangster genres, by conventions of setting and conflict, but rather by the more subtle qualities of tone and mood."

"There is a love of romantic narration. (...) the narration creates a mood of temps perdu: an irretrievable past, a predetermined fate and an all-enveloping hopelessness. (...) one can only take pleasure in reliving a doomed past."

Are you going to submit a story that you think follows the essay?

Quote by Lynkeus

Today is the 80th birthday of the great director Martin Scorsese.

A reason to remember that Scorsese made 4 of his greatest films in equal partnership with his screenwriter (and director himself!) Paul Schrader.

Well - via the detour Scorsese/ Schrader I get to what I actually wanted to remind you of:

This same Paul Schrader published his now classic essay "Notes on film noir" in 1972 - and that's also a 50th anniversary!

Above all, I would have wished that one or the other of our authors would have taken a look at the text before hastily submitting their story to the Noir Erotique competition... 😉

Just a small sample:

"Film noir is not a genre (...) It is not defined, as are the western and gangster genres, by conventions of setting and conflict, but rather by the more subtle qualities of tone and mood."

"There is a love of romantic narration. (...) the narration creates a mood of temps perdu: an irretrievable past, a predetermined fate and an all-enveloping hopelessness. (...) one can only take pleasure in reliving a doomed past."

I think Schrader is very limited in his definition of Noir.. specifically in terms of time and geography. Also, you are quoting notes on Film Noir.

While you note "There is a love of romantic narration", the essay also notes

The majority of scenes are lit for night.

As in German expressionism, oblique and vertical lines are preferred to horizontal.

The actors and setting are often given equal lighting emphasis.

Compositional tension is preferred to physical action.

These are all cinematic conventions. I think it would be a very dull competition if everyone set their story in the United States between the late 1940s and the late 1950s.

Quote by deviantsusie

These are all cinematic conventions. I think it would be a very dull competition if everyone set their story in the United States between the late 1940s and the late 1950s.

Agree! I've loved the diversity of entries so far! Part of the fun for me is seeing how each author interprets the theme.

Quote by Lynkeus

Today is the 80th birthday of the great director Martin Scorsese.

A reason to remember that Scorsese made 4 of his greatest films in equal partnership with his screenwriter (and director himself!) Paul Schrader.

Well - via the detour Scorsese/ Schrader I get to what I actually wanted to remind you of:

This same Paul Schrader published his now classic essay "Notes on film noir" in 1972 - and that's also a 50th anniversary!

Above all, I would have wished that one or the other of our authors would have taken a look at the text before hastily submitting their story to the Noir Erotique competition... 😉

Just a small sample:

"Film noir is not a genre (...) It is not defined, as are the western and gangster genres, by conventions of setting and conflict, but rather by the more subtle qualities of tone and mood."

"There is a love of romantic narration. (...) the narration creates a mood of temps perdu: an irretrievable past, a predetermined fate and an all-enveloping hopelessness. (...) one can only take pleasure in reliving a doomed past."

This is cool.

Here's the whole essay: http://www.literatureoftheamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Notes-on-Film-Noir.pdf

I agree with Suze, that this definition of Noir is specific to the movies, but nearly every example of Noir I can think of involves a movie (Hammet is an exception). It's a genre that movies interpreted REALLY well.

Hi!!!

I joined LUSH as a READER! I never thought of chatting, commenting or creating a group! I liked the friendly climate here.

But I never expected to find a "safe space" here where writers cuddle, cuddle and hug each other, reassuring each other how awesome they are.

Criticism (even mutual) is vital for authors!!

And then the old prejudice (as in your question):

Critics should kindly be better (or at least as good) as the author.

Why?

i am the reader

And you write for me, not your colleagues!!

Quote by Ensorceled

I agree with Suze, that this definition of Noir is specific to the movies, but nearly every example of Noir I can think of involves a movie (Hammet is an exception). It's a genre that movies interpreted REALLY well.

That's an interesting observation and asks the question, is this a good theme for a competition? ... (she wonders now, 7000 words into a noir story with loads of entries already in... )

But , that's the challenge of this competition. Some writers here write like they are painting a picture while others write about internalised inner feelings and desires.

What excites me about this competition is how do we, as writers, get across the feeling of noir.. without necessarily using voiceover, private eyes and femme fatales.. or is that possible?

Looking forward to the last minute slew of entries, mine included.. hopefully

Quote by Lynkeus

Hi!!!

I joined LUSH as a READER! I never thought of chatting, commenting or creating a group! I liked the friendly climate here.

But I never expected to find a "safe space" here where writers cuddle, cuddle and hug each other, reassuring each other how awesome they are.

Criticism (even mutual) is vital for authors!!

And then the old prejudice (as in your question):

Critics should kindly be better (or at least as good) as the author.

Why?

i am the reader

And you write for me, not your colleagues!!

I like criticism.. as long as it is explained... We all used to laugh about the 1 or 2 scores as the voter/critic seldom left an explanation of what went wrong for them with the story.

I don't agree Lush is a safe place, but there is a difference between a kindly worded private message and a public slanging

Me Too!!!!

Quote by deviantsusie

I like criticism.. as long as it is explained... We all used to laugh about the 1 or 2 scores as the voter/critic seldom left an explanation of what went wrong for them with the story.

I don't agree Lush is a safe place, but there is a difference between a kindly worded private message and a public slanging

Does that mean you want to keep getting private messages from me? No public criticism? Shy girl! -😊

Quote by Lynkeus

Does that mean you want to keep getting private messages from me? No public criticism? Shy girl! -😊

No, I can take as much public criticism as you are willing to throw. As long as it is warranted 😘

I can take the unwarranted criticism too.. I'd just expect better from you

Quote by deviantsusie

No, I can take as much public criticism as you are willing to throw. As long as it is warranted 😘

I can take the unwarranted criticism too.. I'd just expect better from you

You know me so well even after these very few encounters: Could I hurt you?

Quote by Lynkeus

i am the reader

And you write for me, not your colleagues!!

Actually, I write for ME most of the time, and it's a nice bonus if a reader feels something from one of my scribbles. Readers and writers are all here for various reasons.

Quote by Lynkeus
And you write for me, not your colleagues!!

I write for Miss Pixel. I'm under contract.

Quote by KimmiBeGood

Actually, I write for ME most of the time, and it's a nice bonus if a reader feels something from one of my scribbles. Readers and writers are all here for various reasons.

If you write "to yourself" most of the time, why not archive your writing in your bedside table? NO!! You Publish!!! YOU write for ME! You crave my praise, my recognition, maybe even (?) my criticism.

Ich liebe dich. But please be honest!

Quote by Lynkeus

If you write "to yourself" most of the time, why not archive your writing in your bedside table? NO!! You Publish!!! YOU write for ME! You crave my praise, my recognition, maybe even (?) my criticism.

Ich liebe dich. But please be honest!

I am being honest. I was brought here by a late bf to help me with my confidence. And I continued writing because writing is an escape for me. And I publish instead of keeping on my nightstand because it feels like I'm getting out in the world. But, believe it or not, I don't CRAVE anything from anyone here. If no one commented on my stories, I would still publish here. I'm introverted and and shy in groups, but enjoy being around others. Publishing here is a comfy way for me to feel a part of something. It makes me feel good. Makes me feel like I'm out in the world. I do enjoy interacting with readers though... more than I ever thought. But I don't need accolades here. Writing will never trump my success in my chosen career path.

Edit: I do need the moderators to deem my stories worth publishing. That I do need.

Quote by KimmiBeGood

I am being honest. I was brought here by a late bf to help me with my confidence. And I continued writing because writing is an escape for me. And I publish instead of keeping on my nightstand because it feels like I'm getting out in the world. But, believe it or not, I don't CRAVE anything from anyone here. If no one commented on my stories, I would still publish here. I'm introverted and and shy in groups, but enjoy being around others. Publishing here is a comfy way for me to feel a part of something. It makes me feel good. Makes me feel like I'm out in the world. I do enjoy interacting with readers though... more than I ever thought. But I don't need accolades here. Writing will never trump my success in my chosen career path.

Edit: I do need the moderators to deem my stories worth publishing. That I do need.

I'm so shattered. Please forgive me for offending you!

Quote by Lynkeus

I'm so shattered. Please forgive me for offending you!

I'm not offended... just correcting your incorrect assumption about me.

Quote by KimmiBeGood

I'm not offended... just correcting your incorrect assumption about me.

I'd go as far to say about more than a few of us.

Quote by deviantsusie

I think Schrader is very limited in his definition of Noir.. specifically in terms of time and geography. Also, you are quoting notes on Film Noir.

While you note "There is a love of romantic narration", the essay also notes

The majority of scenes are lit for night.

As in German expressionism, oblique and vertical lines are preferred to horizontal.

The actors and setting are often given equal lighting emphasis.

Compositional tension is preferred to physical action.

These are all cinematic conventions. I think it would be a very dull competition if everyone set their story in the United States between the late 1940s and the late 1950s.

I'm absolutely thrilled that you actually read Schrader's text.

But please don't think me stupid!

1. The text is 50 years old.

2. Schrader's strict limitation of film noir to the period from 1941 to 1958 is outdated and certainly wrong.

3. The quotes were not a presentation of the very stimulating text, but a kind of appetizer, an invitation to read.

4. Of course the text is about film - and you're not supposed to submit a film for the competition - but have you ever noticed that in the entry for this competition ALL the quotes are from films? I didn't notice that any of you writers expressed surprise or irritation at this! Even though all the films mentioned are based on literary sources? From James M. Cain to Dashiell Hammet and Raymond Chandler to Mickey Spillane? So you could have been given quotes from the books as bait?

Quote by Lynkeus

I'm absolutely thrilled that you actually read Schrader's text.

But please don't think me stupid!

1. The text is 50 years old.

2. Schrader's strict limitation of film noir to the period from 1941 to 1958 is outdated and certainly wrong.

3. The quotes were not a presentation of the very stimulating text, but a kind of appetizer, an invitation to read.

4. Of course the text is about film - and you're not supposed to submit a film for the competition - but have you ever noticed that in the entry for this competition ALL the quotes are from films? I didn't notice that any of you writers expressed surprise or irritation at this! Even though all the films mentioned are based on literary sources? From James M. Cain to Dashiell Hammet and Raymond Chandler to Mickey Spillane? So you could have been given quotes from the books as bait?

I'll be interested to read your entry. You are writing one after all this, yes?

As I said above: I am a READER. An alert, curious, well-read, discussion-joyful ... READER.

But you obviously only want the reader as a nod and claqueur. And otherwise should he shut up?

If I misinterpreted you, I apologize!

Quote by deviantsusie

I think it would be a very dull competition if everyone set their story in the United States between the late 1940s and the late 1950s.

LOL Maybe you should tell some of your competitors that instead of me?

Quote by Lynkeus

As I said above: I am a READER. An alert, curious, well-read, discussion-joyful ... READER.

But you obviously only want the reader as a nod and claqueur. And otherwise should he shut up?

If I misinterpreted you, I apologize!

Goodness gracious, you are desperate for attention, aren't you? Your words are hollow, your assumptions spurious, and your apologizes meaningless.

Quote by Ensorceled

This is cool.

Here's the whole essay: http://www.literatureoftheamericas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Notes-on-Film-Noir.pdf

Thanks for reading empathetically and sharing the link, which I unfortunately missed 😒

Quote by kistinspencil

Goodness gracious, you are desperate for attention, aren't you? Your words are hollow, your assumptions spurious, and your apologizes meaningless.

That's life and that's the way the internet is: Some people don't want to listen, try to understand or even TALK to each other...😒

Lynkeus,

I, and most authors I know, welcome constructive feedback and love to talk and listen, if treated with respect. Your comment on an entry below basically called the author a fool. That's not respectful critique... criticizing the person, not their writing. You could have simply said, "I didn't care for your metaphors." Same as in your opening introduction in this thread, you could have simply suggested authors read your suggested essay instead of saying all the entries were hastily submitted and should have read your essay first. (Really? Many have been working on their story for months!) Another incorrect assumption from you. And implying not one entry was a valid Noir story. And your sarcastic responses are condescending and don't promote healthy, meaningful discussions.

I think we readers should be grateful to authors who decide to share their work with us gratuitously; it's not our place to make demands. Unless we've commissioned a story, of course.
If I don't like a particular story, author or category, I simply avoid it. I won't go and criticise or say they've made fools of themselves because they didn't meet my expectations. There is no one-size-fits-all in writing, or any other art form, for that matter.

I much rather authors being true to themselves and their characters, telling the story they want to tell than doing fanservice.

Disrespecting people for being creative and generous is not being constructive at all.

Quote by Lynkeus

Thanks for reading empathetically and sharing the link, which I unfortunately missed 😒

I enjoyed the essay, but I agree your comments are out of place. This is a writing community, and it is about support and growth. That doesn't mean you can't criticize constructively, but it does mean you can a) try not to sound so frikkin condescending, and b) perhaps send your criticisms in an IM. There may be a lot of newbie writers around here, but CuriousAnnie is not one of them. She knows her way around a metaphor. If you can write a better one, show us. If it's good, it'll be celebrated.