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Competition Entries should be primarily SOLO efforts

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Stormdog
Gentleman Stranger
Quote by oceanrunner
What I was trying to do, in case I wasn't as clear as I'd hoped, was suggest that I thought the new rule --or stricter interpretation of old ones, whichever it is-- was excessively and perhaps unreasonably strict.

Personally, I don't agree with the new rule, nor with the some of the analogies given (if I had to make a school-based one, I'd perhaps offer up the idea of an open-notes test, which is 100% legit if allowed, and 100% cheating if not. The examiner gets to decide).

Going back to matters that I hope are happier... If you haven't yet read Thin Ice, you should check it out -- it's a real treat.


Comp entries are already an open-notes test, aren't they? You can use Spell-check or Grammarly or whatever word processing aid you choose; you have access to dictionaries and thesaurus; you can do as much or as little research as you feel necessary on Google or any other internet source; and you can access dozens of different writing resources with helpful tips and guidelines - pretty much all that's being asked is that the end story be your own work.

And you're right about "Thin Ice"; great story, incredibly well written!
Guest
Lurker
Quote by Stormdog


Comp entries are already an open-notes test, aren't they? You can use Spell-check or Grammarly or whatever word processing aid you choose; you have access to dictionaries and thesaurus; you can do as much or as little research as you feel necessary on Google or any other internet source; and you can access dozens of different writing resources with helpful tips and guidelines - pretty much all that's being asked is that the end story be your own work.



EDIT: I had a longer response that I accidentally posted prematurely before realizing I let myself fall into the temptation of arguing on the internet, which I generally prefer not to do.
ChuckEPoo
Chuckanator
Good to know. I'm pretty new as an author and do my best to edit my own work. However, when I let others read it they sometimes see things I miss. I still have trouble knowing when to use comma, semicolon, or colon. When I was in college creative writing I should have listened closer. Seeing how my wife taught English, it is easy to ask her or a friend to proof read. They never change the content but point out punctuation errors.

I'm getting better through practice. Hopefully in time I will be independent. One of the things great about this site are those who help one another. I've developed a deep love for writing and owe most of that to Lush. When I recieve advice or edit help I always credit that person. Until I achieve that level of competence I will refrain from entering.

I believe a great story is so much more than punctuation.
Simmerdownchick
Creator

I have three famous stories, 2 recommended reads and have come in the top ten in two competitions~ Come in and make yourself at home.
Simmerdownchick
Creator
I think you're a fantastic writer, Chuck. Just sayin...

I have three famous stories, 2 recommended reads and have come in the top ten in two competitions~ Come in and make yourself at home.
NymphWriter
Unicorn Wrangler
Quote by Stormdog
Another of the mods (who also happens to be a teacher) used a good analogy to this. She compared the usual, everyday story submittal to a homework or in-class assignment on which it's usually okay to ask for help or get a second set of eyes to look it over - hence, an editor would be no issue.

A competition, on the other hand, is more comparable to taking a test, where you rely on what you know and your own abilities to try to do well. In most cases getting help or answers from others when taking a test (the SAT's spring to mind) is considered cheating.


Fair enough. I know those who have won in the past can write their asses off and are ubber talented. I guess my issue was due to some of the less than pleasant comments from other sites I've gotten due to silly typos when I wrote before I had friends to look over my pieces for mistakes. At least here the members who catch mistakes will send a PM and point them out with a polite message.
NymphWriter
Unicorn Wrangler
Quote by Stormdog
Comp entries are already an open-notes test, aren't they? You can use Spell-check or Grammarly or whatever word processing aid you choose; you have access to dictionaries and thesaurus; you can do as much or as little research as you feel necessary on Google or any other internet source; and you can access dozens of different writing resources with helpful tips and guidelines - pretty much all that's being asked is that the end story be your own work.

And you're right about "Thin Ice"; great story, incredibly well written!


I just want to add a minor bit to this and in no way am I disagreeing with you here. When I wrote my comp entry for the Historical comp (The Falon Hotel) when that category launched, I did do some ample research on the time era I wanted to write about including methods of transportation, locations, and when the California gold rush was the most profitable. I agree that I would not see that as cheating becasue I'm sure several authors did something similar becasue that unique category does almost require some research due to it's nature.

I'll also admit to doing some research for other stories, both comp entries and non-comp entries to be able to tell the story I want.
NymphWriter
Unicorn Wrangler
Quote by ChuckEPoo
Good to know. I'm pretty new as an author and do my best to edit my own work. However, when I let others read it they sometimes see things I miss. I still have trouble knowing when to use comma, semicolon, or colon. When I was in college creative writing I should have listened closer. Seeing how my wife taught English, it is easy to ask her or a friend to proof read. They never change the content but point out punctuation errors.

I'm getting better through practice. Hopefully in time I will be independent. One of the things great about this site are those who help one another. I've developed a deep love for writing and owe most of that to Lush. When I recieve advice or edit help I always credit that person. Until I achieve that level of competence I will refrain from entering.

I believe a great story is so much more than punctuation.


You're a hell of an author Chuck. You have written some incredible stories that have stuck with me long after I have read them. Yes, punctuation is the vain of existence to many writers, both amateur and professional. Hell, I teach English and I get hung up on some of them and their correct usages.

Besides... you won a comp with a hell of a piece of writing... too many of us can't say the same so be proud of all your hard work. You totally earned that win.
MadMartigan
Raised on Blackroot
I just want to be clear in stating that the assumption that editing eyes somehow takes away from the intellectual and creative work by an author, making it "less" their work and being equated to cheating is somewhat insulting. I think it's been described rather poorly by some.

Honestly, I always end up finishing a story right before the closing date so I never have time for any serious edit by any eyes but my own anyway, but I still think taking that away is rather silly. Competition or not. It seems like it's in response more to complaints from writers who didn't win. Which I guess is fine. Even playing field and the like.

And I'd disagree about the notion of an edition rewriting vast swaths of a story. Honestly, they'd have to rewrite the entire thing for a reader not to notice a change in the narration. It's pretty easy when a more talented writer rewrites sections that don't match the prose of a less talented writer.

If you wanna be the best, you gotta beat the best. Technical eyes aren't going to help a shitty story with terrible dialogue and derivative plot no matter how beautiful the structure.

At any rate. I've ranted enough about this.

Good luck to all.
Unknown User
I agree with the post above. Just a thought - would you ever enter a professional writing competition without having your work proofread before submitting it? No. Never. Just saying.
RumpleForeskin
The Right Rev of Lush
It may just be me, probably is, but getting to the audio versions of stories seems a bit complicated. If possible, turning the 'audio version available' notice into a link to the audio main page might help guide newbies and those with little sense of direction to the listing. Just a thought.
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MadMartigan
Raised on Blackroot
Quote by Saucymh
I agree with the post above. Just a thought - would you ever enter a professional writing competition without having your work proofread before submitting it? No. Never. Just saying.


I'd be embarrassed as hell if you're only allowed one submission for a competition like that, no editing after the fact, and you notice a slew of errors or say, a lapse in a certain form of spelling or grammar etc, right after hitting the submit button.

Yikes.

Also, I'll note the timing for this declaration is a little late in the game at least for this competition when entries likely have already been the beneficiary of banned editors.
Stormdog
Gentleman Stranger
Quote by ChuckEPoo
Good to know. I'm pretty new as an author and do my best to edit my own work. However, when I let others read it they sometimes see things I miss. I still have trouble knowing when to use comma, semicolon, or colon. When I was in college creative writing I should have listened closer. Seeing how my wife taught English, it is easy to ask her or a friend to proof read. They never change the content but point out punctuation errors.

I'm getting better through practice. Hopefully in time I will be independent. One of the things great about this site are those who help one another. I've developed a deep love for writing and owe most of that to Lush. When I recieve advice or edit help I always credit that person. Until I achieve that level of competence I will refrain from entering.

I believe a great story is so much more than punctuation.


You should enter. As Nymph says, you're an outstanding author, and although I've never acted as a judge (thank God!) I suspect that the stories are judged far more heavily on creativity and how enjoyable, readable, and erotic they are than on punctuation. You consistently knock those categories out of the park. If you have an idea that fits a competition being run, by all means, write!
Kee
Sensual Hobgoblin
Quote by Stormdog
Comp entries are already an open-notes test, aren't they? You can use Spell-check or Grammarly or whatever word processing aid you choose; you have access to dictionaries and thesaurus; you can do as much or as little research as you feel necessary on Google or any other internet source; and you can access dozens of different writing resources with helpful tips and guidelines - pretty much all that's being asked is that the end story be your own work.


People are wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth over this, as us humans (including me) are prone to do, but I think it all just comes down to fairness. I believe that Nicola is just trying to level the playing field. If everyone who entered had access to the same editor who would put the same effort into each story that might be leveling. But the fact is some people have no one to help them, some people have mediocre people to help them and some people have fantastic writers to help them. This being the case, it does not present a fair picture of the author's true skill, which I believe she is trying to make apparent in the contest.

As Storm said above, there all all kinds of help available for writers to use. I doubt the judges are going to throw out a story because a comma was missed in some dialogue. I have read best sellers with typos in them (they rely too much on spell and grammar checkers) but I do not throw the book away or say the person is a crappy writer. I understand that stuff happens, so should you and so should the judges.

We all know that there is a continuum of writing quality from really bad to really good. Every story here falls on that line somewhere. I suspect the judges are looking for the stories that are at the high end of the curve and a few typos will not disqualify the story, especially knowing everyone is subject to the same standard.

My Festive Flash competition story was I recently published-- https://www.lushstories.com/stories/incest-fantasy/driving-home-for-christmas Hope you read and enjoy it! Don't forget to comment. ☺️

Recently published https://www.lushstories.com/stories/lesbian/women-desire It's part two of my Women series where Kate and Maura continue their journey of fem desire. The first part is https://www.lushstories.com/stories/lesbian/women-murder
browncoffee
Coco Pop
whew i sure am glad i didn't use an editor. or take up MM's offer of a plot. muhahahaha.
Road_Runner
Forum Player
Okay, I've read through the posts, but maybe I'm being dense here about this. I have a direct question and would like Nicola to answer this.

So what you are saying is, I develop the story, I write the story, I edit the story and then submit the story. As long as it is not against the content rules it will be posted as submitted with no editing by the mods? Thus it gets viewed and scored on the merits of my own abilities.

Now, I don't mind this idea, but I must say it is totally wishful thinking that it will be followed by everybody. And for the record I never knew this was a unpublished rule, but I will totally follow the rule.

Thank you in advance for replying,

R_R
Road_Runner
Forum Player
Quote by kiera


They are hidden from everyone until after the competition closes if I recall. I can't say for sure but I would imagine this is to stop anyone deliberately trying to sabotage another's scores? Probably other reasons too, but



I knew for a fact there is at least one Lush member that does this if you score their stories truthfully and don't give it a 5, lol. This person is a spiteful individual for sure.

R_R
JWren
Editor at large
Quote by nicola
I will amend the standard competition rules, but in the interim, I wanted to make our policy very clear on competitions.

We want competition entries to be solo efforts, totally.

That means no proofing, editing, suggestions, or anything from friends.

It creates an unfair advantage if someone edits or proofs your story.

We're intestested in seeing what you have written, warts 'n' all.

Please do not ask assistance from others for your competition entries.


I have followed this thread with interest, mainly because I started it all off with a PM question to my good friend Stormdog. While I was on the Mod team, I was puzzled by a few things. One of them was having a contest rule which forbids co-authors but doesn’t make reference to any other forms of assistance, like editing and proof-reading (that’s a part of editing anyway). This is the relevant part of my query raised with Stormdog:

As you're aware, I edit for various folk and some acknowledge the fact. Point being, anyone could edit a contest entry (even be a co-author, come to that) and no-one, including the judges, would know unless it was stated with the story.
In the recent past, I've had writers refer to my editing help on competition stories and I'm wondering whether that may have affected their status. Would they be automatically discounted from prize positions?
Sorry to burden you with this, but maybe you could raise it for me. If editing is banned (and I don't really see why it should - I'm sure people get friends to read over their pieces and advise), then I think it should be stated in the rules. If there is a ban I won't assist in future.

I’m afraid I don’t believe it’s possible to ensure that ALL entries are “solo eforts, totally.” How can this be monitored and imposed?

I also believe this will limit entries. I have experience of members on here who have excellent story ideas and wonderful imaginations - but they fall down with grammar, punctuation, spelling, wrong words, run-on sentences, mixed tenses etc. They struggle to be verified in their original form, either for daily submissions or competitions. And, if such original work is posted, then Lush’s stated intention to have quality work on the front page will go from laudable to laughable.

As I told Stormdog, if and when the ban is introduced I will NOT edit another contest story. But I feel this ban will greatly reduce the overall competitive standard and the prize placings will be limited to even fewer writers.

One final point: when Moderators return a contest entry, stating why it has been rejected, the writer can then make the amendments and submit again. That is editing.
Guest
Lurker
I'm reluctant to get sucked back into this because I generally try to avoid arguing on the internet. I apologize if I rehash what has been said.

However, I will say that I think that the new rule, or stricter interpretation of an original rule, is too strict. Or rather, it starts from an assumption that I don't agree with.

Personally, I don't believe that proofreading and the sort of editing that does not involve the editor doing their own writing falls under the kind of assistance that renders a piece of writing not the author's own.

It also seems to me that this sort of editing is standard writing practice, to the best of my knowledge.

I rarely ask for any proofing or editing help, but there is one friend I occasionally ask to look over some of my work. To me this seems appropriate and within my "rights," if you want to call them that, as a writer.

My last competition entry happened to be completely solo, as per new rules. The penultimate one did have a friendly set of eyes for the opening paragraph or two. The two entries before that were completely solo was well.

Still, it bothers me that something that to me seems well within the bounds of my rights is now being defined as a kind of cheating. I am unlikely to use such "help" anyway, but I reserve the right to.

Since now I can't, I don't see myself likely to enter any more contests. I can acknowledge that this is peevish, because just about any contest entry I would submit would have been a-ok according to the new rules. But I don't like not having the option if I were to want it.

This is not meant to be a dramatic statement. I understand that few people besides me care whether or not I enter contests, and even that is generous at best.

As I've said before, I acknowledge the site's right to make the rules whatever they want. If I have a baseball game in my backyard I can decree that there will be two outs and five bases.

I just don't happen to agree w these new rules, and I don't feel happy participating under them, even, as I've said, if they don't actually affect me directly.
Guest
Lurker
Is this not just utter snobbery from the great and fantastic whom don't like people who try thier best but know there limits.
My real life personal best friend reads everything I do. Points out where I've went wrong, long before I do anything with my efforts. How would any of you know?
Therefore I can only conclude that the competition is restricted to those who have received an advanced education!
I won't try again, although I've really enjoyed being a part of something I though was for all!
browncoffee
Coco Pop
dear me. this has turned nasty. perhaps i'll be the only entrant in the future. will this mean i get all three prizes?
sprite
Her Royal Spriteness
Quote by browncoffee
dear me. this has turned nasty. perhaps i'll be the only entrant in the future. will this mean i get all three prizes?


am i alone i seeing the irony of trying to launch a 'most inspirational member' of the month award during a week when i've seen some threads just take a complete down turn? funny thing is, we get complaints if people use an editor for help, so we ask them not to, and so we start getting complaints about not being able to use an editor for help. not really sure what the middle ground is...

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
JWren
Editor at large
Quote by sprite


am i alone i seeing the irony of trying to launch a 'most inspirational member' of the month award during a week when i've seen some threads just take a complete down turn? funny thing is, we get complaints if people use an editor for help, so we ask them not to, and so we start getting complaints about not being able to use an editor for help. not really sure what the middle ground is...


There is no middle ground. Yes or no. Allowed or banned. Editing allowed or no editing (and that includes no advice/editing from verifiers)
Kiera
Short Arse Brit
Quote by sprite


am i alone i seeing the irony of trying to launch a 'most inspirational member' of the month award during a week when i've seen some threads just take a complete down turn? funny thing is, we get complaints if people use an editor for help, so we ask them not to, and so we start getting complaints about not being able to use an editor for help. not really sure what the middle ground is...


I think the comps were fine as they were.

I do get that it's really hard to please everyone, I am in no way saying the mods and Nicola are not trying to be fair here, but you can't please everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but to me, this stinks of things like that RUBRIC thread and the usual whiners who can't accept that they didn't win or place

First mods only win because they are mods which result in mods not wanting to enter.

The rules are never fair to those people, and they never will be. I always think it's an insult to Nicola and the site when people claim this. I sometimes wonder why she bothers with all the work that goes into keeping them as fair as they can be.

I honestly cringed when I saw this. All those people still won't win because they are up against people who are better writers. All I see now is more drama. So and so got help from so and so and should be disqualified and so forth. I really hope I am wrong because I don't envy any of you that.

I think as Mad said previously it would be pretty obvious if someone had another write for them. If for example, I wrote one then handed it to Sprite to have at it, it would be bloody obvious that I had.

I think having someone take a look and pick out minor mistakes is fair. I won't ever be able to enter a comp now because I would need someone to do that for me and trust me I don't let people write my work, it wouldn't be mine.

I am really sorry it has come to this. I have said before I think the comps were more than fair as they were.
The Duchess of Tart

Please check out my new story, co-written with the amazing Wilful.

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/straight-sex/long-time-coming.aspx

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Unknown User
I am someone who self-edits most of the time anyway so it is no skin off my teeth in that regard.

However, allowing use of a proof-reader to do a pass on grammar, spelling, etc. seems potentially fair to me. Might open up the comps to more entries from beginning writers or those who aren't native English speakers. I doubt that a totally incapable writer is going to win a comp even with that level of help.

Having someone totally write your story from scratch (you provide the idea, they write it) or do heavy editing is a problem in a comp, I would say, and needs to be disallowed.

So the issue becomes how do you know which one someone has used? Nicola is erring on the side of caution by saying no outside edits and I can see why. Would be nice, though, if we could somehow open the door to minor editing/proofing assistance.
Guest
Lurker
In all fairness, let's not forget the spirit of the competition. That should never change. Showing my support for Nicola and her amazing team.

Love you, Miss Sprite.

Thank you all for all that you do.
Burquette
Bug
I do love this site for trying to be so fair, but in my mind, the contests already are.

This sort of rule shoots you in the foot. You can't enforce it. And what's the point if you can't enforce it? It's just one more thing for professional victims to call "no-fair" on.

Besides, an editor can't shine a turd into a diamond, no matter how they polish. Get a professional editor, for all I care.
Guest
Lurker
Having just been labelled above as nasty, I thought I'd better go take a long hard look at myself.
However instead I took a long hard look at the Lush homepage. It's an adult social media site for erotic stories, it's not an ego testing site that excludes and discriminates. This is how it describes itself, it nowhere states you must have a complete and utter understanding of English.
Lushstories.com is a sex stories and erotica focused adult social network. You must be 18 or over to view this site, please read our terms.
Burquette
Bug
Quote by MsTrib
Having just been labelled above as nasty, I thought I'd better go take a long hard look at myself.
However instead I took a long hard look at the Lush homepage. It's an adult social media site for erotic stories, it's not an ego testing site that excludes and discriminates. This is how it describes itself, it nowhere states you must have a complete and utter understanding of English.
Lushstories.com is a sex stories and erotica focused adult social network. You must be 18 or over to view this site, please read our terms.


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