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The "Friend" Zone

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Is it possible to escape the friend zone?

We've all been there haven't we? At least the guys anyways. You meet someone...there is a spark. A sexual tension. But you don't make your move, and you enter the dreaded "friend zone". You secretly desire the female, but unfortunately you're relegated to being the shoulder to cry on. You become the "great guy that any girl would be lucky to have"...just not her.

Is it possible to overcome the friend zone and once again be considered a romantically viable partner? Or should you just give up and go ahead and sleep with all her friends?

I may have found the answer, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Rembacher
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I think it depends on the girl. Some girls like to get to know someone first, before they truly let him in. Others, after confiding in you, and sharing their secrets with you, just can't see you any other way than as a friend. And they are also uneasy about the fact you know their secrets, so the relationship would be more intimate right from the start.

That being said, I think it is possible to get out of the friend zone. I just haven't ever been able to do it yet.
Dancing_Doll
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Well... for me personally... if I have a guy friend and I have chosen to cry on his shoulder, complain about current or ex-boyfriends, ask for advice, and share my darkest (and possibly controversial or embarrassing) secrets... its likely that I am only thinking about the guy as a friend.

For me, if there is a sexual spark (AT ALL) or any potential for something romantic, I will not lay myself out on the line in a way that involves tears, weaknesses and insecurities. Its much more fun to save that as a surprise for later in the relationship... LOL

But seriously... I am sure there is some potential to move out of the friend zone in many circumstances. I would just look at how she is presenting herself to you. If she is using you as a sounding board to talk through her issues or discuss her ex-boyfriend ad nauseum, or if she is using you as a companion to go out to the bars or the clubs when she can't find anyone else, then I would just err on the side of caution and start sleeping with all her friends immediately...
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Quote by Jebru
I think it depends on the girl. Some girls like to get to know someone first, before they truly let him in. Others, after confiding in you, and sharing their secrets with you, just can't see you any other way than as a friend. And they are also uneasy about the fact you know their secrets, so the relationship would be more intimate right from the start.

That being said, I think it is possible to get out of the friend zone. I just haven't ever been able to do it yet.


Jebru, after reading a few of your posts I get the impression that you tend to be the type of guy that falls into what I refer to as "the nice guy trap." Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing that you are the kind of guy that tends to befriend women and then hope that they develop feelings for you after spending time with you?

If so, then the problem isn't trying to get out of the friend zone, but rather stop yourself from entering it in the first place. If the attraction isn't there from the beginning, then you will have a very, very hard time eliciting that attraction later on.
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Quote by Dancing_Doll
Well... for me personally... if I have a guy friend and I have chosen to cry on his shoulder, complain about current or ex-boyfriends, ask for advice, and share my darkest (and possibly controversial or embarrassing) secrets... its likely that I am only thinking about the guy as a friend.

For me, if there is a sexual spark (AT ALL) or any potential for something romantic, I will not lay myself out on the line in a way that involves tears, weaknesses and insecurities. Its much more fun to save that as a surprise for later in the relationship... LOL

But seriously... I am sure there is some potential to move out of the friend zone in many circumstances. I would just look at how she is presenting herself to you. If she is using you as a sounding board to talk through her issues or discuss her ex-boyfriend ad nauseum, or if she is using you as a companion to go out to the bars or the clubs when she can't find anyone else, then I would just err on the side of caution and start sleeping with all her friends immediately...


damn I love your answers! I wish I could shrink you down and put you on my shoulder like one of those devils in cartoons when I go out to the bar.

In my case though, there is not really any secret sharing or anything like that. We're still not super good friends or anything. We pretty much just go to the bar or to the beach together. But there is that absence of overt sexuality that was once present earlier on. (Unless she's drunk).
Rembacher
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Quote by DamonX

Jebru, after reading a few of your posts I get the impression that you tend to be the type of guy that falls into what I refer to as "the nice guy trap." Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing that you are the kind of guy that tends to befriend women and then hope that they develop feelings for you after spending time with you?

If so, then the problem isn't trying to get out of the friend zone, but rather stop yourself from entering it in the first place. If the attraction isn't there from the beginning, then you will have a very, very hard time eliciting that attraction later on.


I'm not sure how to respond to that. I do believe that the more time a woman spends with me, the more she will like me, but I'm not sure that is much different than anyone else.

This thread is about the friend zone, and not my personal dating habits. However since you brought it up, I will briefly address what has happened to me in the past. Most of the time I have flirted with a girl, sensed some interest, but got relegated to friend zone before I made a move. In those cases, yes, I have hoped that my nice guy image would eventually win her over.

But I have also had it where I was friends with someone, with a little bit of a sexual tension, and something came along to change the way I saw her. I have never made friends with someone in the hopes they will eventually fall for me. It's not fun to be the friend of a girl you are in love with, and have to listen to her go on about guys. So, I would never intentionally put myself in that situation. But I also won't abandone a friend just because it gets emotionally draining on me to be her friend.
Dancing_Doll
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Quote by DamonX
Quote by Dancing_Doll
Well... for me personally... if I have a guy friend and I have chosen to cry on his shoulder, complain about current or ex-boyfriends, ask for advice, and share my darkest (and possibly controversial or embarrassing) secrets... its likely that I am only thinking about the guy as a friend.

For me, if there is a sexual spark (AT ALL) or any potential for something romantic, I will not lay myself out on the line in a way that involves tears, weaknesses and insecurities. Its much more fun to save that as a surprise for later in the relationship... LOL

But seriously... I am sure there is some potential to move out of the friend zone in many circumstances. I would just look at how she is presenting herself to you. If she is using you as a sounding board to talk through her issues or discuss her ex-boyfriend ad nauseum, or if she is using you as a companion to go out to the bars or the clubs when she can't find anyone else, then I would just err on the side of caution and start sleeping with all her friends immediately...


damn I love your answers! I wish I could shrink you down and put you on my shoulder like one of those devils in cartoons when I go out to the bar.

In my case though, there is not really any secret sharing or anything like that. We're still not super good friends or anything. We pretty much just go to the bar or to the beach together. But there is that absence of overt sexuality that was once present earlier on. (Unless she's drunk).


Yeah, I'm a good "wing-woman" in a bar. I know how to hide my horns...

I know that if I'm hanging out with a "guy-friend" and there is a potential that I'd go further if the situation was right, then I am always slightly flirting... even in a very innocent, vague way.

I think if there is an attraction, its always somewhat lingering on the surface. Even in situations where nothing would happen because maybe one (or both) of you is already committed to another, or the dynamic of the situation is wrong... there is still that bit of spark or feeling that makes the banter more flirty than it would be if you were just buddies.

I've been in several situations over the years where I've had guy friends that want to take it to the next level, and I will admit, I have known their hopes/intentions, but have genuinely appreciated them so much as friends that I have just tried to avoid any situation where they might try to make a move. This means, not sitting close to each other on a couch (I would choose to sit in a chair instead), reinforcing how much I value them as a FRIEND (and using that term so there is no confusion), and on occasion I have been known to try to "scare the guy" out of liking me in a romantic way by talking about an ex, or how emotionally confused I am, or talking about other guys I think are "hot".

Usually its worked for me, but on two occasions, the "friend" actually did make a physical move and it was horribly awkward as I tried to explain to them that I don't see them that way. One guy took it really well, and continued being my friend and then tried again 3 months later, and was genuinely shocked that I rebuffed him yet again. I guess he thought I needed more time. The truth is, if there IS an attraction, another 3 months of friendship isn't going to make me suddenly develop feelings for him. It only pushes him even further into the friend-zone because at that point, I assume, he understands the situation since its been explicitly clarified, and so I am able to relax more when I'm around him.

Anyways, its all confusing stuff. One suggestion might be for you to start talking about another girl and see her reaction. Does she seem a bit competitive, or annoyed? Then chances are good she might be up for something more than friends. If she is whole heartedly thrilled that you are into someone else and encouraging it all along, then I think the answer is clear. In fact, if she's not interested in you, she probably WILL be thrilled you are talking about another girl (and relieving her of any potentially awkward situations going forward), and her enthusiasm will give it away.
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Anyways, its all confusing stuff. One suggestion might be for you to start talking about another girl and see her reaction. Does she seem a bit competitive, or annoyed? Then chances are good she might be up for something more than friends. If she is whole heartedly thrilled that you are into someone else and encouraging it all along, then I think the answer is clear. In fact, if she's not interested in you, she probably WILL be thrilled you are talking about another girl (and relieving her of any potentially awkward situations going forward), and her enthusiasm will give it away.


Great advice as always. Here's what I did. After realizing that she no longer had romantic interest in me, I made myself scarce for a few months. If she called, I always said i had something else to do. Then, on her birthday I showed up at the club she was at with a new look and a completely different attitude. I got myself in good with her friends flirted a lot with them, while paying very little attention to her. After that, she started calling me all the time to hang out. But...then I fucked it all up again and now I'm back where I started. sad i find that the jealousy test is always the best way to find out if a girl is interested or not.
Dancing_Doll
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Quote by DamonX

Anyways, its all confusing stuff. One suggestion might be for you to start talking about another girl and see her reaction. Does she seem a bit competitive, or annoyed? Then chances are good she might be up for something more than friends. If she is whole heartedly thrilled that you are into someone else and encouraging it all along, then I think the answer is clear. In fact, if she's not interested in you, she probably WILL be thrilled you are talking about another girl (and relieving her of any potentially awkward situations going forward), and her enthusiasm will give it away.


Great advice as always. Here's what I did. After realizing that she no longer had romantic interest in me, I made myself scarce for a few months. If she called, I always said i had something else to do. Then, on her birthday I showed up at the club she was at with a new look and a completely different attitude. I got myself in good with her friends flirted a lot with them, while paying very little attention to her. After that, she started calling me all the time to hang out. But...then I fucked it all up again and now I'm back where I started. sad i find that the jealousy test is always the best way to find out if a girl is interested or not.


Absolutely agreed. The jealousy factor has always worked for me. In fact on at least one occasion it made me realize that I did like a guy a little more than I originally thought I did when he was always chasing me and being so available.

Of course, its a fine line, because if you end up flirting with the friends TOO much and not being attentive to the one you really want, it can also backfire and instead of the friend-zone, you end up in the jerk-zone. LOL

Fine tuning is required, so I always suggest trying not to drink too much when playing these strategies. Getting drunk is always a surefire way to mess things up one way or another (and that goes for both sexes).
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Quote by Jebru

This thread is about the friend zone, and not my personal dating habits. However since you brought it up, I will briefly address what has happened to me in the past. Most of the time I have flirted with a girl, sensed some interest, but got relegated to friend zone before I made a move. In those cases, yes, I have hoped that my nice guy image would eventually win her over.


I meant no offence. Just something I noticed from your posts. I used to fall into this trap as well. It occurs when a man tries to develop comfort before the woman has developed attraction to him. if this is the case, then friendship is usually the best you can hope for (unless you are very attractive). You can't be a complete dick, but in my experience, a little "edge" goes a long way.

Is that a slogan? Can I patent that?

And...let the outrage begin.
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Quote by Dancing_Doll

Absolutely agreed. The jealousy factor has always worked for me. In fact on at least one occasion it made me realize that I did like a guy a little more than I originally thought I did when he was always chasing me and being so available.

Of course, its a fine line, because if you end up flirting with the friends TOO much and not being attentive to the one you really want, it can also backfire and instead of the friend-zone, you end up in the jerk-zone. LOL

Fine tuning is required, so I always suggest trying not to drink too much when playing these strategies. Getting drunk is always a surefire way to mess things up one way or another (and that goes for both sexes).


Jerk zone? That me everyday. Oh, wait... that's the jerk off zone.

Yeah, you can't avoid the "target" girl all together. You have to play her like a cat with a string. Toss it out...and pull it back. Toss it out...and pull it back. But if you just let the string lay there...the cat loses interest and goes elsewhere.

haha, I can't wait for the blowback from this post. I can see it now...
LadyX
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you forgot the beer, DD
thepainter
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This thread makes me think of the ladder theory: http://www.laddertheory.com/
And no, it's not my website nor do I agree with the entire theory. Still, there's some funny bits and some true bits in there.

I've ended up in the friend zone often, not because I tried to befriend women and hoped for something to develop really. I've been a non-predator all my life so I've never really walked up to a woman to hit on her. I just act like my normal weird/evil/retarded self and sometimes that sparks some interest from the opposite sex. Often it doesn't but that's cool too.
I think being alone is underrated in that people tend to run from relationship to relationship without really taking time to just be by themselves and have some fun not having to take anybody else into account. It also helps in discovering yourself which is hard to do when constantly chasing tail.

Anyway, wtf do I know. All I know is that I ran into a wonderful woman on lush and against all odds we actually met irl and it was awesome. To quote Woody Allen's latest movie, whatever works!
Insert typical super smart ass comment courtesy of thepainter here.
Dancing_Doll
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Quote by thepainter
This thread makes me think of the ladder theory: http://www.laddertheory.com/


OMG Painter... that website just had to be 'bookmarked'... I laughed so hard! That could be a forum thread all on its own.

My favorite "graphs" were....
LadyX
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Quote by DamonX

Yeah, you can't avoid the "target" girl all together. You have to play her like a cat with a string. Toss it out...and pull it back. Toss it out...and pull it back. But if you just let the string lay there...the cat loses interest and goes elsewhere.


True that- you want to be coy, pretend like any one of 10 girls will do just fine? You go ahead and do that, I know the game. But if I don't even think you are that interested, then guess what? Neither am I.

Let me know- I will play around, I will paw at the string.

Just don't take the string away and expect me to come across the room looking for it. And don't let the string lay there, like:

"so, what's up?" -and expect me to be dazzled by your interest.

All this is out the window if the guy's somebody I am drawn to and obsessive about getting to know- but if you're trying to get my attention and draw my interest then like Dancing Doll says, its sometimes tricky.
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Quote by Dancing_Doll
Well... for me personally... if I have a guy friend and I have chosen to cry on his shoulder, complain about current or ex-boyfriends, ask for advice, and share my darkest (and possibly controversial or embarrassing) secrets... its likely that I am only thinking about the guy as a friend.


I have to agree with DD. Only once did I cross that line with a guy many years ago and the relationship was ruined - you just can't go back.
LadyX
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Quote by Dancing_Doll
Quote by thepainter
This thread makes me think of the ladder theory: http://www.laddertheory.com/


OMG Painter... that website just had to be 'bookmarked'... I laughed so hard! That could be a forum thread all on its own.

My favorite "graphs" were....









this is so true! lol. Paragraph after paragraph of blabber, all boiled down into two diagrams, love it!
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the problem here is losing a great friendship. As soon as feelings and sex come into things everything becomes murky. And is your friendship strong enough to recover if hooking up doesn't work out? I've never had a good experience with this and lost good friends because of it. I can understand her trepidation.
WellMadeMale
Constant Gardener
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I've hooked up with several fem friends and only remained friends after the sex, with two of them. It takes the right kind of communication to mutually acknowledge: "Hmm, maybe we shouldn't do that again." without hurting one's feelings.

As a result, although I have a few female friends who I might occasionally admire as a possible fun sex partner, I stifle those desires whenever possible.

And I have a small handful of female friends now, who were sex partners before we truly became friends. The sex didn't work out, for whatever reason(s)...but we liked one another and escalated the friendship aspects while putting the physical aspects in the figurative closet.

Sometimes, the Friend Zone is exactly what is needed...and it's not a bad thing. The bad thing is letting your emotions fester into hurt, or grow into an unhealthy obsession with what you cannot hope to have or enjoy (for the first time or 'again').
The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
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Quote by WellMadeMale
The bad thing is letting your emotions fester into hurt, or grow into an unhealthy obsession with what you cannot hope to have or enjoy (for the first time or 'again').


agreed
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Quote by Loislane
Quote by WellMadeMale
The bad thing is letting your emotions fester into hurt, or grow into an unhealthy obsession with what you cannot hope to have or enjoy (for the first time or 'again').


agreed


Ditto.
Rabies
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Is there really any way out of the friend zone? If she looks at you as a friend, anything you do, say or give to her will be taken in a friendly way. Flowers? You're such a great friend! Cards for birthday, christmas and easter? Brilliant friend! Tell her how you feel? Abyss...
I really am interested to find out if anyone has escaped the friend zone. For me, I feel like the girl I love won't take me seriously enough, because even I consider her in a much higher league than my own, which has developed into an unhealthy self-consciousness where I cannot help but think people are thinking the worst about me.
Maybe you don't care. I'm just here to find out if anyone has ditched the "friend" label and become much more than that.
It will be one of the biggest regrets of my life if I pass up this girl. I have a bad case of oneism, but she is smart, funny, friendly, laid-back and most of all, beautiful.
Wow, I gush a lot.
Any advice? The worst part is, she isn't happy with her current boyfriend, and I can't help but feel she deserves better...
Dancing_Doll
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Quote by Rabies
Is there really any way out of the friend zone? If she looks at you as a friend, anything you do, say or give to her will be taken in a friendly way. Flowers? You're such a great friend! Cards for birthday, christmas and easter? Brilliant friend! Tell her how you feel? Abyss...
I really am interested to find out if anyone has escaped the friend zone. For me, I feel like the girl I love won't take me seriously enough, because even I consider her in a much higher league than my own, which has developed into an unhealthy self-consciousness where I cannot help but think people are thinking the worst about me.
Maybe you don't care. I'm just here to find out if anyone has ditched the "friend" label and become much more than that.
It will be one of the biggest regrets of my life if I pass up this girl. I have a bad case of oneism, but she is smart, funny, friendly, laid-back and most of all, beautiful.
Wow, I gush a lot.
Any advice? The worst part is, she isn't happy with her current boyfriend, and I can't help but feel she deserves better...


Rabies, aren't you the same guy who started the "I Feel Dead, Please Help" thread? I think it's clear that you can either stay friends with her, and support her, and let her come to her own decisions re the health of her current relationship, or you can just confess your feelings and find out once and for all. Given that this seems to be difficult for you to move on from, I'm thinking that maybe you need to have an open conversation with her, and just tell her how you feel. It may work in your favour, or it may not. But at least you'll know once and for all. Seems like you're in limbo right now. Honesty might be your best option...

If she tells you that she only sees you as a friend, you have to find a way to get over this. Sometimes we can't be with the ones we want the most. But right now, you're fixated on this one person as being the only one you think you could ever love. You're not even open to other people. If you don't end up with this girl, you should feel confident that others will come into your life if you keep yourself emotionally available to other possibilities.

Tell her how you feel...

Good luck....
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Quote by Rabies
Is there really any way out of the friend zone? If she looks at you as a friend, anything you do, say or give to her will be taken in a friendly way. Flowers? You're such a great friend! Cards for birthday, christmas and easter? Brilliant friend! Tell her how you feel? Abyss...
I really am interested to find out if anyone has escaped the friend zone. For me, I feel like the girl I love won't take me seriously enough, because even I consider her in a much higher league than my own, which has developed into an unhealthy self-consciousness where I cannot help but think people are thinking the worst about me.
Maybe you don't care. I'm just here to find out if anyone has ditched the "friend" label and become much more than that.
It will be one of the biggest regrets of my life if I pass up this girl. I have a bad case of oneism, but she is smart, funny, friendly, laid-back and most of all, beautiful.
Wow, I gush a lot.
Any advice? The worst part is, she isn't happy with her current boyfriend, and I can't help but feel she deserves better...


Sounds like a case of "one-itis".
Remington
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I've noticed that the nice guy approach doesn't work for shit. As long as you have that balance then you're okay. Sometimes you have to play cat and mouse for a bit before reeling her in.

It is nice to get the perspective from another female. this will really help my next escapade.

I've had some good female friends that have helped me with the girl I've wanted to get. I've never been after either of these girls for the simple fact that they are married. But they sure have helped out a lot with whatever girl I have my eyes set on.
Go check out my new story - How Did This Happen? - John's Story
WellMadeMale
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Quote by Rabies
Is there really any way out of the friend zone? If she looks at you as a friend, anything you do, say or give to her will be taken in a friendly way. Flowers? You're such a great friend! Cards for birthday, christmas and easter? Brilliant friend! Tell her how you feel? Abyss...
I really am interested to find out if anyone has escaped the friend zone. For me, I feel like the girl I love won't take me seriously enough, because even I consider her in a much higher league than my own, which has developed into an unhealthy self-consciousness where I cannot help but think people are thinking the worst about me.
Maybe you don't care. I'm just here to find out if anyone has ditched the "friend" label and become much more than that.
It will be one of the biggest regrets of my life if I pass up this girl. I have a bad case of oneism, but she is smart, funny, friendly, laid-back and most of all, beautiful.
Wow, I gush a lot.
Any advice? The worst part is, she isn't happy with her current boyfriend, and I can't help but feel she deserves better...


Let's turn this around a bit and look at the situation from a different point of view.

Have you ever wondered, Rabies - if there might not be another woman out there, who is yearning for you in a similar fashion as you are yearning for this current object of your affection? And this second woman might be thinking these same thoughts about herself - and you?

Could you, possibly 'love' or acknowledge that other woman? My guess is, probably not.

This woman you're yearning for? She's just not that into you, man.

There is no shame in cutting whatever losses you think you're suffering and getting on with your life. The real love of your life, you may not have even met yet and she might be eyeballing you now wondering to herself...."Hmmmm."

Give the new women a chance and tuck this woman into your friendzone pocket and move on.
The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
thepainter
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I saw "A single man" the other day and one quote from that movie seems rather fitting:
"Lovers are like buses, you just have to wait a little while and another comes along."

Stop weighing yourself down and move along. As WMM points out there might already be someone pining for you right now. And if not then it will happen at some point. C'est la vie.
Insert typical super smart ass comment courtesy of thepainter here.