First off, one thing I still don't understand fully: What is "topping from bottom"?
Another: If the sub/slave is feeling inadequate, not good enough for their Master/Mistress, or just self conscious about certain things, how do I/they convey those feelings to Master/Mistress without upsetting him/her?
Can a Master/Mistress sense or tell by body language whether their sub is upset or not?
I hope I'm not upsetting anyone by asking these questions.
Last: How far does the control go as far as daily activities? Like for eating, using the bathroom, getting a drink, taking a nap, after chores of course, watching tv or doing activities? What exactly do I/we need permission for? Or just "test the waters" and see if we're allowed to do it or not?
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I have a few questions for Masters and Subs
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Ok neko let's take your questions one at a time...
"topping from the bottom" refers to a submissive/slave/bottom trying to direct the scene while serving a Master/Mistress/Dom. If you are a submissive then submit and follow the lead of your Dom. You should have already established the boundaries, so let Them take you where They know you need to go.
If a sub is feeling inadequate they should convey their feelings to their Dom. Then it is the Dom's responsibility to reassure the sub that he/she is not inadequate and can do as they were directed. And a Dom should know what the sub is or is not capable of beforehand.
A Master/Mistress had BETTER be able to tell by body language whether thier sub is upset. If you can't read body language as a Dom, find another career!
"Control" as you put it depends on the two individuals in the relationship - it is a decision made after lengthy discussion and debate. Some subs want to give more than others. Some want to give it all to their Dom. And the Dom can also choose what control He/She wants to accept from the sub. It's part of the negotiations of a D/s relationship.
If you would like to discuss this further necko, I would be happy to talk to you more about it. I don't know everything about D/s (no one does) but I can help you find answers.
"topping from the bottom" refers to a submissive/slave/bottom trying to direct the scene while serving a Master/Mistress/Dom. If you are a submissive then submit and follow the lead of your Dom. You should have already established the boundaries, so let Them take you where They know you need to go.
If a sub is feeling inadequate they should convey their feelings to their Dom. Then it is the Dom's responsibility to reassure the sub that he/she is not inadequate and can do as they were directed. And a Dom should know what the sub is or is not capable of beforehand.
A Master/Mistress had BETTER be able to tell by body language whether thier sub is upset. If you can't read body language as a Dom, find another career!
"Control" as you put it depends on the two individuals in the relationship - it is a decision made after lengthy discussion and debate. Some subs want to give more than others. Some want to give it all to their Dom. And the Dom can also choose what control He/She wants to accept from the sub. It's part of the negotiations of a D/s relationship.
If you would like to discuss this further necko, I would be happy to talk to you more about it. I don't know everything about D/s (no one does) but I can help you find answers.
Is "control" an offensive term? I'm sorry, I'm just really new to it. I've been interested in it for about 4 years, but just recently go into it. The relationship I have with my Master, is mostly online and over the phone. He lives like 6 hours away, so he doesn't have the chance to come over that often. He's really great to me, but I just have this rebellious streak in me, and I want to do something to make him punish me. Sometimes I hate being controlled, or told what to do, but I crave it so much. I love the trust between me and my Master. But I feel like I have to test his trust, to see how much he really cares about me. I might sounds like a mess, and I know I am a mess. He's really patient with me as I learn, but it's hard for me to completely trust him. I want to trust him completely, and I try so hard. But sometimes I am scared of him, and I hate that about myself. I don't want to be scared of him. Maybe I'm too much of a mess to be a sub? I feel so scatterbrained right now. I want to give some/most, but not all to him.
neko,
"Control" is not an offensive term - at least not to Me. And what you are feeling is perfectly natural for someone new to the scene. Trust takes time neko and yes you will have to test it, just as anyone tests their significant other at first, until you are assured of His feelings for you. This happens with all subs and you shouldn't feel you are a "mess" just because you are unsure of how He feels for you. Hell I know a great many vanilla marriages that suffer the same thing!
That being said, you do need to learn how to surrender yourself. Start with little things. For example, let Him decide when and what time to meet. And then be there for Him and see if He holds up to His schedule. Bet He will (for the most part - things do happen!) And as He does, you can learn to trust Him. Then find another bigger thing to trust Him on. And so on. Baby steps, but each one forward. Soon you will be surprised at how much you have both grown.
Just remember neko - D/s is a journey, not a destination to be reached. It is a walk that you are your Master take together. So don't worry so much about "getting there" - you never will. D/s is a never ending, always something new to explore journey. As long as you walk together, that's all that matters. No matter how fast you travel.
"Control" is not an offensive term - at least not to Me. And what you are feeling is perfectly natural for someone new to the scene. Trust takes time neko and yes you will have to test it, just as anyone tests their significant other at first, until you are assured of His feelings for you. This happens with all subs and you shouldn't feel you are a "mess" just because you are unsure of how He feels for you. Hell I know a great many vanilla marriages that suffer the same thing!
That being said, you do need to learn how to surrender yourself. Start with little things. For example, let Him decide when and what time to meet. And then be there for Him and see if He holds up to His schedule. Bet He will (for the most part - things do happen!) And as He does, you can learn to trust Him. Then find another bigger thing to trust Him on. And so on. Baby steps, but each one forward. Soon you will be surprised at how much you have both grown.
Just remember neko - D/s is a journey, not a destination to be reached. It is a walk that you are your Master take together. So don't worry so much about "getting there" - you never will. D/s is a never ending, always something new to explore journey. As long as you walk together, that's all that matters. No matter how fast you travel.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by nekolover90
First off, one thing I still don't understand fully: What is "topping from bottom"?
It means when a submissive attempts to subvert the dominant's control. To some extent what actually constitutes TftB will vary as dynamics do, but just as an example,
"Oh, please sir, please do this or that" to me is acceptable. Begging is not the same as demanding. By contrast,
"Ow! Don't spank me there!" is *classic* TftB.
At the same time, TftB must not be confused with invoking a safeword. If your limits are being exceeded or you are squicking, then using a safeword is absolutely called for. Copping an attitude is *never* called for.
Another: If the sub/slave is feeling inadequate, not good enough for their Master/Mistress, or just self conscious about certain things, how do I/they convey those feelings to Master/Mistress without upsetting him/her?
I don't think conveying honest feelings to your Master should never be upsetting to him. But if there is any doubt, then in every dynamic there must be a protocol for both parties to set aside the dynamic and be able to speak freely as equals in a neutral setting. Nothing said by the sub in that context should be punishable or held against her. Not having such an 'escape' available at any time jeopardizes the concept of the consensuality of the relationship, if nothing else.
Can a Master/Mistress sense or tell by body language whether their sub is upset or not?
Any two people who are in a relationship long enough should be able to tell such things regardless of the dynamic. The exception is when one of the partners is being obstinately obtuse perhaps from a sense of entitlement or selfishness. Just for the record, the one thing you can never say about a good master is that they are selfish.
I hope I'm not upsetting anyone by asking these questions.
Certainly not. It's what the forum is for!
Last: How far does the control go as far as daily activities? Like for eating, using the bathroom, getting a drink, taking a nap, after chores of course, watching tv or doing activities? What exactly do I/we need permission for? Or just "test the waters" and see if we're allowed to do it or not?
That's something the two of you need to work out. M/s and D/s is not one-size-fits-all. Every dynamic is different and custom designed by the parties to fulfill their individual needs.
There are slaves who never refer to themselves in the first person ("This slave" instead of "I" or "me"). There are those who must request to use the restroom, and even those to whom such permission is occasionally delayed or made conditional.
If you want to be a better slave for your master, the one central piece of advice I have is that whenever you have a free choice to make, stop and try to think, "Which choice would Master wish me to make?"
The more you internalize that sort of decision making the more you sublimate your own will to your Master's and the deeper and more automatic your submission becomes.
My novel, The Society, is available now in the Kindle Store: http://www.amazon.com/The-Society-ebook/dp/B00BPF9U2I
Thanks for the advice. I will use it for future reference, if needed. Just lost my Master. I truly thank you both, and value your advice. Thank you both for your input on my situation. I have been reading both of yours stories and learning more about this lifestyle. I'm hardly experienced, I guess I need a more experienced Master, or need more experience myself. I mean, he is only 23, only had one slave/sub before me, he was my first and only Master. Whether it was me or him that wasn't ready for the relationship, I don't regret it, nor have ill feelings for him. I've been looking into the forums on here for advice and am still learning. I might just need to get my life in order before trying to get back into it so fast. It's a very valuable lesson and experience. I know I'm running my thoughts and sentences together, don't know if any of it makes sense, I'm still am shocked about the whole incident and I'm getting drunk as I write this. Not bothering to reread any of my sentences, just trusting my fingers to push the right keys to get my message across. Thank you both, and I admire the lifestyle you're into. I'm sorry if I sound irrational or incoherent. My words are just flying out of my head into my hand and I'm pressing the keys I thinks need to be pressed I think it's finally htitng me that i lost my master.. I loved him so much and i jsut dont understand why he would disown me. i don't think i did anything wrong. i guess i hust couldn't handel it. my hearrt aches for the love he gave me whilew ewere together.. Trying so hard not to cry right now. i'm sorry i wont bother yallanymore
nekolover,
I know that losing a Master (or a sub for that matter) is a devastating loss and you have every right to be hurt and lost. But take it from One who has been there and done that, it WILL get better. Yes, taking some time off to re-evaluate is probably a good idea and some self-inspection is never a bad thing. But I hope this doesn't turn you off of the lifestyle for good.
Just as with any kind of relationship, we are all paired to a certain person. Most of us find them - some sooner than later - but we find them. And I am sure there is a Master for you as well. You just need to keep looking. Will you get hurt again? More than likely. But maybe next time it won't mean the end of the relationship, only an adjustment of it.
Pet and I have had our differences as well. And sometimes the gap between them has been a big one. But we worked it out and are stronger for it. Don't give up neko. It's truly worth the hurt when you find the right One.
Jonathan
I know that losing a Master (or a sub for that matter) is a devastating loss and you have every right to be hurt and lost. But take it from One who has been there and done that, it WILL get better. Yes, taking some time off to re-evaluate is probably a good idea and some self-inspection is never a bad thing. But I hope this doesn't turn you off of the lifestyle for good.
Just as with any kind of relationship, we are all paired to a certain person. Most of us find them - some sooner than later - but we find them. And I am sure there is a Master for you as well. You just need to keep looking. Will you get hurt again? More than likely. But maybe next time it won't mean the end of the relationship, only an adjustment of it.
Pet and I have had our differences as well. And sometimes the gap between them has been a big one. But we worked it out and are stronger for it. Don't give up neko. It's truly worth the hurt when you find the right One.
Jonathan
I don't think it will turn me off of the lifestyle for good. From what I have seen and read about the relationships between a dom/me and sub, the bond is sometimes greater than those of a "vanilla" relationship or marriage. My parents have a "vanilla" marriage, but they do like to spice it up often. Yesterday was their 28th marriage anniversary.
I think, aside from losing him, the worst part of it is not knowing why. I know he doesn't owe me any kind of reason for ending it. I don't expect one either. It's just one of those questions that most of the time goes unanswered.
I'll keep looking and learn more before jumping back into it. I won't give up on my journey. The destination is far off, so I might as well enjoy this journey called life. The road be a bumpy one, but well worth the wild ride. I've been listening to Aerosmith all morning and the lyrics that stuck out the most were, "Life's a journey, not a destination" it reminded me of what you said about D/s in a previous post.
Thank you for the advice, Mr Jonathan, or should I be calling you Master Jonathan? or am I only supposed to call my own Master, Master? I just confused myself. I think I know who to look to for advice about it in the future.
Kelli
I think, aside from losing him, the worst part of it is not knowing why. I know he doesn't owe me any kind of reason for ending it. I don't expect one either. It's just one of those questions that most of the time goes unanswered.
I'll keep looking and learn more before jumping back into it. I won't give up on my journey. The destination is far off, so I might as well enjoy this journey called life. The road be a bumpy one, but well worth the wild ride. I've been listening to Aerosmith all morning and the lyrics that stuck out the most were, "Life's a journey, not a destination" it reminded me of what you said about D/s in a previous post.
Thank you for the advice, Mr Jonathan, or should I be calling you Master Jonathan? or am I only supposed to call my own Master, Master? I just confused myself. I think I know who to look to for advice about it in the future.
Kelli
nekolover,
I am glad that you are looking at this as a step and not a roadblock. That is a good way to think. And I am glad that this hasn't turned you away from the D/s life. As with any kind of relationship, there are rough patches as well as the smooth ones. You'll be ok. And I'm glad.
As for what to call Me, well I prefer "Sir" if you are a submissive and not Mine. If you were another Dom, then "Jonathan" or even "MJ" would do. The only time you would call Me "Master" would be if I was your Master.
This is, like so many other things in D/s, a matter of choice and would depend on the participants. But that is My preference.
I am glad that you are looking at this as a step and not a roadblock. That is a good way to think. And I am glad that this hasn't turned you away from the D/s life. As with any kind of relationship, there are rough patches as well as the smooth ones. You'll be ok. And I'm glad.
As for what to call Me, well I prefer "Sir" if you are a submissive and not Mine. If you were another Dom, then "Jonathan" or even "MJ" would do. The only time you would call Me "Master" would be if I was your Master.
This is, like so many other things in D/s, a matter of choice and would depend on the participants. But that is My preference.
Advanced Wordsmith
What is "topping from bottom"?
This puzzled me for the longest time, because I am a very independent person when I'm by myself - so I "didn't get it" for the longest time.
Quite simply:
When you are by yourself: making plans for yourself, what you want to wear, say, do, think or react is OKAY (provided your Owner isn't dictating any of these things using rules or protocols)
BUT:
Making plans for your Owner, telling him/her what to do, taking control in a situation, open defiance of standing rules because you're pissed s/he won't do what you think s/he should do IS NOT OKAY.
Example:
You want to wear a leather mini skirt, because you know it turns HIM/HER on. (Thumbs up)
You want to register HIM/HER for a leather convention and surprise HIM/HER. (Thumbs down)
If the sub/slave is feeling inadequate, not good enough for their Master/Mistress, or just self conscious about certain things, how do I convey those feelings to Master/Mistress without upsetting him/her?
I know the urge to surpress this information and keep it to yourself is huge. The novice sub would tell, you "You gotta learn to get over yourself". But that doesn't help much. Judging by the number of blog material out there published by subs, I would say most of them battle with this problem a lot.
There only seems to be one solution. You have to tell HIM/HER in the most objective manner you can manage (without bursting out in tears). Communication is the Alpha and the Omega. If you keep these feelings of inadequancy to yourself, and your Dom/me is not a mind-reader then your relationship will suffer.
Can a Master/Mistress sense or tell by body language whether their sub is upset or not?
That really depends on how well the Dom/me knows their sub. It also depends on their experience and their degree of empathy. Ask yourself the question: Would I know it if my Dom/me was upset judging by their body language? Well, I would know, but that's not always the case. That's why safewords are highly recommended.
How far does the control go as far as daily activities?
If you're the sub you are usually in the position to determine how much control you want to relinquish. That's what limits are about.
For instance "water games" are one of my hard limits, because I have the tendency to stop drinking altogether and dangerously dehydrate myself, because I have been in too many real life situations where I had no access to a toilet. If I know I will be denied access to a toilet, I will simply stop drinking and lose all sense of thirst. So rather than risk another near kidney-failure I simply rule out that the Dom has any control regarding my urination.
Dom/mes are not unreasonable (at least they should not be) when it comes to controlling what you are not willing to relinquish to their control. This is particularily true when it comes to anything that's a health risk - such as breath control or gags if you have asthma, or things like you had severe childhood trauma because of abuse.
Basically it's up to you how much control you will relinquish, which is what many submissives call "The Gift of Submission".
This puzzled me for the longest time, because I am a very independent person when I'm by myself - so I "didn't get it" for the longest time.
Quite simply:
When you are by yourself: making plans for yourself, what you want to wear, say, do, think or react is OKAY (provided your Owner isn't dictating any of these things using rules or protocols)
BUT:
Making plans for your Owner, telling him/her what to do, taking control in a situation, open defiance of standing rules because you're pissed s/he won't do what you think s/he should do IS NOT OKAY.
Example:
You want to wear a leather mini skirt, because you know it turns HIM/HER on. (Thumbs up)
You want to register HIM/HER for a leather convention and surprise HIM/HER. (Thumbs down)
If the sub/slave is feeling inadequate, not good enough for their Master/Mistress, or just self conscious about certain things, how do I convey those feelings to Master/Mistress without upsetting him/her?
I know the urge to surpress this information and keep it to yourself is huge. The novice sub would tell, you "You gotta learn to get over yourself". But that doesn't help much. Judging by the number of blog material out there published by subs, I would say most of them battle with this problem a lot.
There only seems to be one solution. You have to tell HIM/HER in the most objective manner you can manage (without bursting out in tears). Communication is the Alpha and the Omega. If you keep these feelings of inadequancy to yourself, and your Dom/me is not a mind-reader then your relationship will suffer.
Can a Master/Mistress sense or tell by body language whether their sub is upset or not?
That really depends on how well the Dom/me knows their sub. It also depends on their experience and their degree of empathy. Ask yourself the question: Would I know it if my Dom/me was upset judging by their body language? Well, I would know, but that's not always the case. That's why safewords are highly recommended.
How far does the control go as far as daily activities?
If you're the sub you are usually in the position to determine how much control you want to relinquish. That's what limits are about.
For instance "water games" are one of my hard limits, because I have the tendency to stop drinking altogether and dangerously dehydrate myself, because I have been in too many real life situations where I had no access to a toilet. If I know I will be denied access to a toilet, I will simply stop drinking and lose all sense of thirst. So rather than risk another near kidney-failure I simply rule out that the Dom has any control regarding my urination.
Dom/mes are not unreasonable (at least they should not be) when it comes to controlling what you are not willing to relinquish to their control. This is particularily true when it comes to anything that's a health risk - such as breath control or gags if you have asthma, or things like you had severe childhood trauma because of abuse.
Basically it's up to you how much control you will relinquish, which is what many submissives call "The Gift of Submission".
Si vos postulo me, sed non vis me, oportet me manere.
Sed si vis me, sed non vos postulo me, oportet me abire.
Sed si vis me, sed non vos postulo me, oportet me abire.