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Do nice guys finish last?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
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Is it really true?
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
not always, but just most of the time 
So yes, they do.
Alpha Blonde
No... doormats, passive-aggressive guys and stalkers finish last.
Nice guys finish first, provided they have more going for them than just being 'nice'.
Nice guys finish first, provided they have more going for them than just being 'nice'.
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Not at all. It's just they have higher standards and greater expectations. Luckily these tend to mesh nicely with those of nice girls.
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What Dancing Doll said!
I found myself a nice guy and practically danced with joy. But then it turned out beneath the nice was a wimpy, fickle, feeble and boring boy, and I stopped dancing.
I do wonder on your definition of nice though...
I found myself a nice guy and practically danced with joy. But then it turned out beneath the nice was a wimpy, fickle, feeble and boring boy, and I stopped dancing.
I do wonder on your definition of nice though...
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Quote by Just-SJ
What Dancing Doll said!
I found myself a nice guy and practically danced with joy. But then it turned out beneath the nice was a wimpy, fickle, feeble and boring boy, and I stopped dancing.
I do wonder on your definition of nice though...
My definition is kind and respectful. A man's man but not an asshole. A man who would kill to protect his lady, but also has the most tender of touch for her. Opens door, brings flowers, never puts down in public, praises her beauty appropriately. That is what I meant.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
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noooo!!!!!
I must admit (And I apologise girls) but women can be confusing. A lot of us think bad boys are sexy, because they're dramatic, exciting and unpredictable but in the long run we just want someone to love us just the way we are. Someone who is predictable and comes home every night and kisses you even when you're full of cold and smell like your own vomit!
I ask, would a bad boy do this?? No
ideally we want a nice guy who's a bad boy in the bedroom!
I must admit (And I apologise girls) but women can be confusing. A lot of us think bad boys are sexy, because they're dramatic, exciting and unpredictable but in the long run we just want someone to love us just the way we are. Someone who is predictable and comes home every night and kisses you even when you're full of cold and smell like your own vomit!
I ask, would a bad boy do this?? No
ideally we want a nice guy who's a bad boy in the bedroom!
Quote by cherryrebel
ideally we want a nice guy who's a bad boy in the bedroom!
Just like a guy wants "a lady on the streets, but a freak in the sheets" ... well, not quite like that but the analogy fits.
My definition is kind and respectful. A man's man but not an asshole. A man who would kill to protect his lady, but also has the most tender of touch for her. Opens door, brings flowers, never puts down in public, praises her beauty appropriately.
So my answer is YES ... this lady wants a man who is respectful, kind, funny and wants to be/is a better man because of those traits.
Van
Alpha Blonde
I think the confusion here is this...
The social term 'nice guy' has often been interpreted as a guy that is comfortable with the status quo, treats his woman nicely, happily runs in the middle of the pack, isn't that adventurous but content with a pleasant but predictable sex life, and has a safe plodding and conservative outlook on life, family, sex, and fun.
Now many women want a sharp mind, a playful wit, an ambitious and adventurous spirit, and a wicked sense of humour. Maybe a guy that likes to push the envelope sometimes (in a positive way), and has a mischievous nature and is sexually confident. Combined with this we want him to be a "nice" human being that has a sense of integrity and honour, is reliable and appreciates us.
Now, is the latter definition a bad boy? Or just a confident, outgoing more unconventional version of the "nice guy"....
Personally, I see them as two version of the Nice Guy. You have the "Basic Nice Guy" and then you have the "Nice Guy with Edge". Every woman will be different in terms of which version she is better suited to.
I don't think any woman would say that she wants the doormat, insecure, boring guy... Nor does she want the unpredictable, disrespectful asshole that the term 'bad boy' is often interpreted as.
When most women talk about a guy that gets us excited, it is usually the "Nice Guy with Edge"...
The social term 'nice guy' has often been interpreted as a guy that is comfortable with the status quo, treats his woman nicely, happily runs in the middle of the pack, isn't that adventurous but content with a pleasant but predictable sex life, and has a safe plodding and conservative outlook on life, family, sex, and fun.
Now many women want a sharp mind, a playful wit, an ambitious and adventurous spirit, and a wicked sense of humour. Maybe a guy that likes to push the envelope sometimes (in a positive way), and has a mischievous nature and is sexually confident. Combined with this we want him to be a "nice" human being that has a sense of integrity and honour, is reliable and appreciates us.
Now, is the latter definition a bad boy? Or just a confident, outgoing more unconventional version of the "nice guy"....
Personally, I see them as two version of the Nice Guy. You have the "Basic Nice Guy" and then you have the "Nice Guy with Edge". Every woman will be different in terms of which version she is better suited to.
I don't think any woman would say that she wants the doormat, insecure, boring guy... Nor does she want the unpredictable, disrespectful asshole that the term 'bad boy' is often interpreted as.
When most women talk about a guy that gets us excited, it is usually the "Nice Guy with Edge"...
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Quote by Dancing_Doll
I think the confusion here is this...
The social term 'nice guy' has often been interpreted as a guy that is comfortable with the status quo, treats his woman nicely, happily runs in the middle of the pack, isn't that adventurous but content with a pleasant but predictable sex life, and has a safe plodding and conservative outlook on life, family, sex, and fun.
Now many women want a sharp mind, a playful wit, an ambitious and adventurous spirit, and a wicked sense of humour. Maybe a guy that likes to push the envelope sometimes (in a positive way), and has a mischievous nature and is sexually confident. Combined with this we want him to be a "nice" human being that has a sense of integrity and honour, is reliable and appreciates us.
Now, is the latter definition a bad boy? Or just a confident, outgoing more unconventional version of the "nice guy"....
Personally, I see them as two version of the Nice Guy. You have the "Basic Nice Guy" and then you have the "Nice Guy with Edge". Every woman will be different in terms of which version she is better suited to.
I don't think any woman would say that she wants the doormat, insecure, boring guy... Nor does she want the unpredictable, disrespectful asshole that the term 'bad boy' is often interpreted as.
When most women talk about a guy that gets us excited, it is usually the "Nice Guy with Edge"...
Very Well Said! How about a nice, caring, loving, playful,funny, supportive guy who can be the bad boy at times, especially in the bedroom?
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My question now would be, would the nice guy ever make it to the bedroom to show his freaky side? And DD, I know what you mean. I agree that "nice guy" is often confused with "boring, insecure, unambitious" guy. I'm just trying to come up with some new topics to discuss. Seems this one has gotten some interest. I'm enjoying the debate.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Alpha Blonde
Quote by lafayettemister
My question now would be, would the nice guy ever make it to the bedroom to show his freaky side? And DD, I know what you mean. I agree that "nice guy" is often confused with "boring, insecure, unambitious" guy. I'm just trying to come up with some new topics to discuss. Seems this one has gotten some interest. I'm enjoying the debate.
Yeah, there have been some rather volatile "Nice Guy" threads in the past...
I always enjoy them, of course...
As for the new question, I'd say (in all honesty) that I have rarely ever seen/heard of the "Basic Nice Guy" revealing some hidden crazy moves when it comes to the bedroom. A more adventurous dirty girl would get bored fast. I have dated a couple of these types in the past, and my friends have dated many and complained about the same thing.
I've always preferred the "Nice Guy with Edge".... I just find that it's more compatible with my style.
I have dated a couple of bonafide bad boys/assholes and they're not usually that great in bed either. Too much narcissism, selfishness and ego.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by Dancing_DollQuote by lafayettemister
My question now would be, would the nice guy ever make it to the bedroom to show his freaky side? And DD, I know what you mean. I agree that "nice guy" is often confused with "boring, insecure, unambitious" guy. I'm just trying to come up with some new topics to discuss. Seems this one has gotten some interest. I'm enjoying the debate.
Yeah, there have been some rather volatile "Nice Guy" threads in the past...
I always enjoy them, of course...
As for the new question, I'd say (in all honesty) that I have rarely ever seen/heard of the "Basic Nice Guy" revealing some hidden crazy moves when it comes to the bedroom. A more adventurous dirty girl would get bored fast. I have dated a couple of these types in the past, and my friends have dated many and complained about the same thing.
I've always preferred the "Nice Guy with Edge".... I just find that it's more compatible with my style.
I have dated a couple of bonafide bad boys/assholes and they're not usually that great in bed either. Too much narcissism, selfishness and ego.
Soo you're saying Nice Guy and Bad Boy... neither guarantees he's good in bed? Is it possible for either to be confident and able in the bedroom... and it have nothing to do with his outward appearance and/or attitude? Having said that, I'd been with some some women who were great in bed and some who were not so great in bed. One of the sassyest and wittiest and naughty talking girls I ever knew was a like a wooden plank in bed. The church going prim and proper girl gave INCREDIBLE head. Who knows.. now I'm confusing myself.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Alpha Blonde
Quote by lafayettemisterQuote by Dancing_DollQuote by lafayettemister
My question now would be, would the nice guy ever make it to the bedroom to show his freaky side? And DD, I know what you mean. I agree that "nice guy" is often confused with "boring, insecure, unambitious" guy. I'm just trying to come up with some new topics to discuss. Seems this one has gotten some interest. I'm enjoying the debate.
Yeah, there have been some rather volatile "Nice Guy" threads in the past...
I always enjoy them, of course...
As for the new question, I'd say (in all honesty) that I have rarely ever seen/heard of the "Basic Nice Guy" revealing some hidden crazy moves when it comes to the bedroom. A more adventurous dirty girl would get bored fast. I have dated a couple of these types in the past, and my friends have dated many and complained about the same thing.
I've always preferred the "Nice Guy with Edge".... I just find that it's more compatible with my style.
I have dated a couple of bonafide bad boys/assholes and they're not usually that great in bed either. Too much narcissism, selfishness and ego.
Soo you're saying Nice Guy and Bad Boy... neither guarantees he's good in bed? Is it possible for either to be confident and able in the bedroom... and it have nothing to do with his outward appearance and/or attitude? Having said that, I'd been with some some women who were great in bed and some who were not so great in bed. One of the sassyest and wittiest and naughty talking girls I ever knew was a like a wooden plank in bed. The church going prim and proper girl gave INCREDIBLE head. Who knows.. now I'm confusing myself.
Sure, anything is possible... I'm just talking more about general trends I've seen or heard about through female friends that have dated various types of guys.
Again, there's nothing wrong with the "Basic Nice Guy"... there are lots of "Basic Nice Girls" that end up being perfectly suited to them.
I think the volatile relationships are when people start trying to hook up with people that are outside their own 'type'. A Basic Nice Girl is always going to feel insecure and crazy if she tries to get the "Bad Boy" to commit to her. Similarly, I'd consider myself a "Nice Girl with Edge"... I would be bored and dissatisfied if I tried to make it work with a "Basic Nice Guy"... I actually tried this once many years ago, and that was the end outcome for me. Total boredom.
People have different expectations of what their perfect partner is. And rightfully so, since we are all very different creatures.
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Great debate going on here. I love your definitions. :P
I think "nice guy" should mean someone who's considerate and respectful, and surely part of being considerate is learning what a girl wants. So often though nice guys are seen as those who lack confidence. I guess that's true sometimes but I also figure it's not in many cases, as it is for nice girls.
I totally get that.
I think I'm a nice girl - kind of shy, not hugely confident with new people, like to please - but get past that and I want to explore and push boundaries. Does that mean I have an edge, don't know.
My boyfriend's your textbook basic nice guy and sometimes I get frustrated that I'm often the one to make the first move and always the one to suggest new things. That's another debate though.
I think "nice guy" should mean someone who's considerate and respectful, and surely part of being considerate is learning what a girl wants. So often though nice guys are seen as those who lack confidence. I guess that's true sometimes but I also figure it's not in many cases, as it is for nice girls.
Quote by Dancing_Doll
I think the volatile relationships are when people start trying to hook up with people that are outside their own 'type'. A Basic Nice Girl is always going to feel insecure and crazy if she tries to get the "Bad Boy" to commit to her. Similarly, I'd consider myself a "Nice Girl with Edge"... I would be bored and dissatisfied if I tried to make it work with a "Basic Nice Guy"... I actually tried this once many years ago, and that was the end outcome for me. Total boredom.
I totally get that.
I think I'm a nice girl - kind of shy, not hugely confident with new people, like to please - but get past that and I want to explore and push boundaries. Does that mean I have an edge, don't know.
My boyfriend's your textbook basic nice guy and sometimes I get frustrated that I'm often the one to make the first move and always the one to suggest new things. That's another debate though.
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Alpha Blonde
Quote by chavil
It seems like most women want a nice guy when their done having their fun with the bad boys. When their ready to settle down. Which is sad for everyone involved really. When the nice guys are nice 19-20 they ignore them. Late twenties is when they give them a shot.
It goes two ways though...
Quite often the "basic nice guys" are ignoring the "basic nice girls" and trying to bag those hottie bad girls that rock their fantasies but that their personalities are just not suited to. They need to give up this dream and look for the sweet girl next door that is looking to bake apple pie and own a labrador with a minivan.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by Dancing_DollQuote by chavil
It seems like most women want a nice guy when their done having their fun with the bad boys. When their ready to settle down. Which is sad for everyone involved really. When the nice guys are nice 19-20 they ignore them. Late twenties is when they give them a shot.
It goes two ways though...
Quite often the "basic nice guys" are ignoring the "basic nice girls" and trying to bag those hottie bad girls that rock their fantasies but that their personalities are just not suited to. They need to give up this dream and look for the sweet girl next door that is looking to bake apple pie and own a labrador with a minivan.
So you're saying that people, men and women, should date and fuck only "in their league"? If a girl, or guy is super hot and/or bad/naughty... the good girl/guy should not even try? Love the dialogue, always a pleasure DD.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Alpha Blonde
Quote by lafayettemisterQuote by Dancing_DollQuote by chavil
It seems like most women want a nice guy when their done having their fun with the bad boys. When their ready to settle down. Which is sad for everyone involved really. When the nice guys are nice 19-20 they ignore them. Late twenties is when they give them a shot.
It goes two ways though...
Quite often the "basic nice guys" are ignoring the "basic nice girls" and trying to bag those hottie bad girls that rock their fantasies but that their personalities are just not suited to. They need to give up this dream and look for the sweet girl next door that is looking to bake apple pie and own a labrador with a minivan.
So you're saying that people, men and women, should date and fuck only "in their league"? If a girl, or guy is super hot and/or bad/naughty... the good girl/guy should not even try? Love the dialogue, always a pleasure DD.
Hmm... I'd say they can fuck outside of their league but to truly be compatible and happy when talking about long term commitments and relationships, people will be happier with someone that shares their general brand of 'zest for life'. I think that a more conservative person will have a better chance for bliss with a like-minded person.
I've seen couples that are skewed in this regard... like the cheating/player/bad-boy that marries the sweet innocent girl and it tends to end disastrously (unless she is extremely naive and willing to look the other way). And then you have the quiet, low-key, basic guy that chases after the wild party girls and can't sustain a long term relationship because he wants to "tame her" and she starts to feel resentful about it. The point is that people don't really change. The desire for the conservative person (male or female) to get the badboy/badgirl and somehow tame their spirit or turn them into their conservative-ideal is a ridiculous strategy and yet many people still harbour this misguided fantasy. Everyone likes a challenge, but when it comes down to it, people should seek partners that share their similar ideals/values and life outlook.... and usually that works best when nice guys date nice girls, bad boys date bad girls, and nice-guy-with-edge gets the nice-girl-with-edge.
Of course there can be some variations that work but I just think people need to be realistic about what they are best suited to.
I think in some cases that opposites attract (which is fine for the short term), but when you're going for long-term happiness it's more complicated. Otherwise boredom will typically set in for one person and frustration/insecurity will set in for the other person.
Oh, and I should point out, there are some very good looking 'nice girls' and 'nice guys' out there. It's definitely not about looks... it's very much about a person's psychology/personality/mind-set.
PS. Thanks Lafayette, you know I love this kind of dialogue too.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by Dancing_DollQuote by lafayettemisterQuote by Dancing_DollQuote by chavil
It seems like most women want a nice guy when their done having their fun with the bad boys. When their ready to settle down. Which is sad for everyone involved really. When the nice guys are nice 19-20 they ignore them. Late twenties is when they give them a shot.
It goes two ways though...
Quite often the "basic nice guys" are ignoring the "basic nice girls" and trying to bag those hottie bad girls that rock their fantasies but that their personalities are just not suited to. They need to give up this dream and look for the sweet girl next door that is looking to bake apple pie and own a labrador with a minivan.
So you're saying that people, men and women, should date and fuck only "in their league"? If a girl, or guy is super hot and/or bad/naughty... the good girl/guy should not even try? Love the dialogue, always a pleasure DD.
Hmm... I'd say they can fuck outside of their league but to truly be compatible and happy when talking about long term commitments and relationships, people will be happier with someone that shares their general brand of 'zest for life'. I think that a more conservative person will have a better chance for bliss with a like-minded person.
I've seen couples that are skewed in this regard... like the cheating/player/bad-boy that marries the sweet innocent girl and it tends to end disastrously (unless she is extremely naive and willing to look the other way). And then you have the quiet, low-key, basic guy that chases after the wild party girls and can't sustain a long term relationship because he wants to "tame her" and she starts to feel resentful about it. The point is that people don't really change. The desire for the conservative person (male or female) to get the badboy/badgirl and somehow tame their spirit or turn them into their conservative-ideal is a ridiculous strategy and yet many people still harbour this misguided fantasy. Everyone likes a challenge, but when it comes down to it, people should seek partners that share their similar ideals/values and life outlook.... and usually that works best when nice guys date nice girls, bad boys date bad girls, and nice-guy-with-edge gets the nice-girl-with-edge.
Of course there can be some variations that work but I just think people need to be realistic about what they are best suited to.
I think in some cases that opposites attract (which is fine for the short term), but when you're going for long-term happiness it's more complicated. Otherwise boredom will typically set in for one person and frustration/insecurity will set in for the other person.
Oh, and I should point out, there are some very good looking 'nice girls' and 'nice guys' out there. It's definitely not about looks... it's very much about a person's psychology/personality/mind-set.
PS. Thanks Lafayette, you know I love this kind of dialogue too.
I mostly agree with yoru point that opposites attract but then usually fall apart. And there are plenty stories we all know of someone trying to tame the wild child and that has ended horribly. Usually it is a woman that tries to tame a badboy more often than the other way around. Usually ends in heartbreak.
My biggest disagreement is that nice guys are conservative. And bad boys are liberal. Somehow somewhere along the line, the nice guy guy has become mistaken for inept boring guy. We all know or know about beer swilling, wife beating, asshole husbands out there that control their wives every thought and action. Expects her to be like Carol Brady, but beats the shit out of her. These guys are certainly NOT good guys. And I can guarantee the are conservative... no Obama votes in that category. My point is... there are many BadBoys that are conservative.
I guess my point is that I don't think that all or even most conservative guys are good guys and that all or most liberal guys are bad guys. Or maybe I mean good guys aren't always conservative and badboys aren't always liberal. I would think that it's equally proportionate.
No, people don't change. Maybe they should make a little more effort if the changing is worthwhile?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates
Alpha Blonde
Quote by lafayettemister
I mostly agree with yoru point that opposites attract but then usually fall apart. And there are plenty stories we all know of someone trying to tame the wild child and that has ended horribly. Usually it is a woman that tries to tame a badboy more often than the other way around. Usually ends in heartbreak.
My biggest disagreement is that nice guys are conservative. And bad boys are liberal. Somehow somewhere along the line, the nice guy guy has become mistaken for inept boring guy. We all know or know about beer swilling, wife beating, asshole husbands out there that control their wives every thought and action. Expects her to be like Carol Brady, but beats the shit out of her. These guys are certainly NOT good guys. And I can guarantee the are conservative... no Obama votes in that category. My point is... there are many BadBoys that are conservative.
I guess my point is that I don't think that all or even most conservative guys are good guys and that all or most liberal guys are bad guys. Or maybe I mean good guys aren't always conservative and badboys aren't always liberal. I would think that it's equally proportionate.
No, people don't change. Maybe they should make a little more effort if the changing is worthwhile?
When I say 'conservative' I'm not talking politics. I'm talking about a guy that IS conservative himself in the way he acts/thinks in life. You know the golf shirt and khakis kind of guy that likes blockbuster movies/popcorn, drives the reliable car, isn't too flashy, and is basically sexually traditional.
And again... the social term nice-guy has come to mean inept boring guy in the same way that bad-boy has come to mean cheating/abusive asshole. They are both extreme interpretations.
Here's how I see the continuum:
1. Stalkers - misguided versions of "Nice Guy" that have been taken to an unhealthy extreme.
2. Nice Guy - conservative/traditional guy, somewhat introverted, predictable, with nice disposition (ie. beta-male)
3. Nice Guy with Edge - a good guy with charisma, confidence, outgoing, maybe a little mischievous, and a leader (ie. alpha-male)
4. Bad Boy - player type, thinks of himself first, unreliable, narcissistic, doesn't play by the rules (ie social rebel)
5. Asshole - chronic cheaters, abusers, and criminals (ie. uhmm... asshole!)
Now they all come with varying political persuasions and attractiveness-levels... (obviously). And it can also be flipped to represent the continuum when it comes to women as well.
Wild at Heart
6. Follower - The guy that is so nice that he puts all the decisions on the woman because he is so nice that he wants to consider her in every decision or that's what he says. He says that he doesn't care and will do anything she likes to do but then pouts and seeks attention when she doesn't pick what he was secretly hoping she would. This happens with men and women. One person becomes completely dependent on the other person for hapiness. They lay heavy guilt trips too. I see it everyday with my friends and family. To me these are the worst type of 'nice guys' there is. A total exhausting mind game of a relationship.
Active Ink Slinger
Nice debate you have going on here guys, but there is something about this topic that just disturbs me a little. I have never been a fan of social stereotypes and when it comes down to this type of thing it is no different. I am a firm believer in the fact a person should not be defined to one particular type, if you think of yourself as something, or someone tells you you are something, chances are you are going to trick your brain into believing it and never have a chance to change.
Personally, I bat away all comments that try to define me into a stereotype, during my relatively short span of being sexually active, I can safely say I have been through pretty much all of these defined types (except stalker and cheater), and neither has stuck firmly. I don't consider myself any one of them, my mood and/or partner defines what I am.
As for who I should be attracted to? Well, the first thing I look at, can she make me laugh? If the answer is no then she is not the woman for me, I am lucky enough to have found a woman I love deeply and that, people, is stronger than a social stereotype. She can be whatever she wants to be, I will not change my opinion of her or be less in love because she is not exactly like me.
In conclusion, it is a sad reality that the trend of thinking in this thread will define how relationships are built pretty much forever. But in my opinion, stereotypes are insulting to a persons individuality. Love your partner for who they are, or don't make the move in the first place.
Personally, I bat away all comments that try to define me into a stereotype, during my relatively short span of being sexually active, I can safely say I have been through pretty much all of these defined types (except stalker and cheater), and neither has stuck firmly. I don't consider myself any one of them, my mood and/or partner defines what I am.
As for who I should be attracted to? Well, the first thing I look at, can she make me laugh? If the answer is no then she is not the woman for me, I am lucky enough to have found a woman I love deeply and that, people, is stronger than a social stereotype. She can be whatever she wants to be, I will not change my opinion of her or be less in love because she is not exactly like me.
In conclusion, it is a sad reality that the trend of thinking in this thread will define how relationships are built pretty much forever. But in my opinion, stereotypes are insulting to a persons individuality. Love your partner for who they are, or don't make the move in the first place.
The Critic, at your service...
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