Is it OK to sexualize violence?

13 May 2018

Quote by Milik_the_Red
This is an interesting thread.

So is punishment in a D/s relationship a violent abuse, or is it filling a need within the sub? Does it simply come down to intent as much as consent?

in the D/s relationship i am currently in, punishment is never physical. it takes the form of time outs which usually leave me frustrated and also give me a chance to cool down and examine my behavior, ie, standing with my nose against the wall for a set period of time.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

13 May 2018

Quote by sprite

in the D/s relationship i am currently in, punishment is never physical. it takes the form of time outs which usually leave me frustrated and also give me a chance to cool down and examine my behavior, ie, standing with my nose against the wall for a set period of time.

That makes sense. From you response I gather that you feel a need for that type of check. It is the same for other subs, regardless of gender (or gender affiliation.)

Pain is only a small part of punishment in D/s of course. It can be inward, as with you or it can invole some sort of humiliation or other emotional check. I believe some people need to feel the boundaries they have accepted enforced by their Dom. It’s a thin line for the Dom, and as abuse does tend to seduce its victim, the sub I suppose needs to be able to tell when the thrill or calm they derive from it becomes a true dread.

The point I’m working on is that in most of these forms, violence of either a physical or emotional nature is being sexulized. The difference is in how it is meant to affect the sub. Destructive violence is intended to cause fear and pain for its own sake. That is far different than what transpires in a true, healthy D/s lifestyle. Of course, that would be very difficult to explain to anyone looking in from the outside.

13 May 2018

Not in my book. Sex is something I enjoy, violence is not.
I know of some who can enjoy BDSM but it is not acceptable or practised among my FWB .

13 May 2018

Quote by Milik_the_Red

That makes sense. From you response I gather that you feel a need for that type of check. It is the same for other subs, regardless of gender (or gender affiliation.)

Pain is only a small part of punishment in D/s of course. It can be inward, as with you or it can invole some sort of humiliation or other emotional check. I believe some people need to feel the boundaries they have accepted enforced by their Dom. It’s a thin line for the Dom, and as abuse does tend to seduce its victim, the sub I suppose needs to be able to tell when the thrill or calm they derive from it becomes a true dread.

The point I’m working on is that in most of these forms, violence of either a physical or emotional nature is being sexulized. The difference is in how it is meant to affect the sub. Destructive violence is intended to cause fear and pain for its own sake. That is far different than what transpires in a true, healthy D/s lifestyle. Of course, that would be very difficult to explain to anyone looking in from the outside.

i think that we would both agree that a Dom/me who works with true fear, as opposed to the fear of disappointing them, isn't quite doing it right, yeah? as you said, fear and pain for their own sake is not cool in my book. good point about someone looking in, though - thank you Meggsy for reinforcing this - i totally get how someone could look at the interaction in a D/s relationship and think "Wtf?!?" smile

going to extrapolate on what Milik said as well - abuse can be seductive - the problem, in my case, of pain for punishment, is i tend to get off on pain - the relationship would break down quickly and became a cycle of abuse, me abusing her emotionally as well as her abusing me physically if we'd agreed on pain as a means of punishment.

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

13 May 2018

Quote by Milik_the_Red

That is the downside of people having their lives destroyed by allegations vs due process. The Me Too movement needed to happen, but it has fostered an atmosphere of trial by media that is destroying men without their constitional right to due process. Is that really just? Truthfully, I’m not wise enough to know, but human nature being what it is, we should expect men to start enforcing the “Pence Rule” in their lives simply due to the fact that one accusation leveled twenty years later could ruin their lives.

Just or not, that fear will change society for the good, but also in ways that may do more damage than it heals. Such is the risk with trial by mob.

Milik the Red

You sound like a very wise man to me and one who has much wisdom to share.

13 May 2018

Quote by LovingSadist
Serious question for a change:

Recently the NY attorney general was accused of committing acts of violence against women he was dating. He claims what he did was part of a consensual role play. The accuracy of those claims notwithstanding, do you think it is OK to sexualize violence between consenting adults? Would how you feel change if one or both parties involved come from an abusive background? Is allowing for violence as part of a role play a slippery slope that will inevitably lead to non consensual violence?

If the violence is consensual, then yes. But otherwise, I can't but say "no."

13 May 2018

Quote by Milik_the_Red
This is an interesting thread.

So is punishment in a D/s relationship a violent abuse, or is it filling a need within the sub? Does it simply come down to intent as much as consent?

Intent and consent are vital but in my opinion have nothing to do with one another. Consent is sacrosanct. Intent is your driving force behind why you act which has no baring on consent.

Though of course intent plays a huge role in any action. Does my partner want to choke me because he knows I like it or because he wants to hurt me. If he does it primarily to feed his enjoyment of hurting others then I would argue he’s not a dom he is a crazy person. That’s not to say he can’t find it in some way pleasurable.

"A dirty book is rarely dusty"

14 May 2018

Quote by ChandlerAja2
I know a number of rich men who have powerful positions, both in the public eye as well a private. I hear things like"There will never be a woman in my office alone again. They believe there is just too much vulnerability.

I know a number of women who say "I will never be with a rich man, who has a powerful position, alone in an office again". They believe there is just too much vulnerability.

Let's not try to make rich men in powerful positions the victim here.

=== Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER ===

14 May 2018

Quote by ChandlerAja2

Milik the Red

You sound like a very wise man to me and one who has much wisdom to share.

You are too kind.

14 May 2018

Quote by sprite

going to extrapolate on what Milik said as well - abuse can be seductive - the problem, in my case, of pain for punishment, is i tend to get off on pain - the relationship would break down quickly and became a cycle of abuse, me abusing her emotionally as well as her abusing me physically if we'd agreed on pain as a means of punishment.

I gotta give you props for seeing the danger through it’s allure. Many people fail that test and are drawn into what is for them a destructive cycle. Most will do it again and again. Thankfully you haven’t.

(I’m not indicting any form of BDSM. I’ve got nothing but respect for the lifestyle)

14 May 2018

In answer to the OP it shouldn't . Roleplaying is a form a BDSM and as such safeguards should be factored in such as passwords or signals to abort, should things get uncomfortable for either party. The roleplay should also fit in within your set boundaries. Any potential acts that may go beyond these boundaries needs to be properly discussed before hand . Another words Play Safe !

14 May 2018

I guess it depends on who is sexualizing the violence and for what purpose. If you get off on Sansa Stark being by Ramsay Bolton, then that's not okay. If you find a partner that likes it a little rough and she lets you choke her (a little) that may be okay. But, if during that choking fun, she looks into your eyes and sees a different person or sees the "wrong kind" of enjoyment... then she may deem that not okay and never do that with that person again.

As for the conversation between Sprite and Milik, there are/will be some unintended consequences of the #MeToo movement. He's right though, due process should be a priority for everyone. There are degrees of murder and robbery and . Trial by media lumps everyone together. HW's actions are exponentially worse that Franken's. But, they suffered the same basic fate.

I think one of the unintended consequences will be a growing emphasis on abstinence. Parents are going to send their teens out to high school and college with lots of encouragement to respect girls/women, and "wait for the right one" or "wait until you're married", just out of fear of their sons doing something stupid.

I can think back to my teen years and early 20's. We all did shit back then that would NOT be acceptable in today's society. There are numerous times we'd go out in groups and get hammered, go to someone's house and fuck. Or makeout/oral/finger/jerkoff/tittyfeel/rub cock/whatever. No one "consented", but it was all in good fun. That big group of people are all still friends today and no one looks back and thinks.."i was drunk that night, so you me". When my son goes away to college, I'm going to encourage him to not have sex with anyone unless she's cold stone sober. Call me an asshole, if you wish. But, I'd rahter be safe than sorry. No room for misunderstanding that way.

One of my schticks in high school was pantsing people. Guys and girls. If you were wearing shorts, I'd drop 'em to your knees. If I did it to someone, and it realllly pissed them off, I wouldn't do it again. If they laughed about it and chased me (normally the girls would do this) and hit me and try to get me back.. I knew it was cool. These days, I'd get locked up for that.

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

14 May 2018

Ultimately this comes down to who is driving things.

Clearly if a man puts pressure on a woman to accept violent things like slapping, whipping etc when she is reluctant, that is my definition of sexualising violence.

However there are plenty of female profiles here who when communicated with, actively desire male treatment including those things. It is pretty hard to argue that they are not fully consented and willing participants.

I have learned of two profiles on here who experienced sexual abuse well before the UK age of consent of 16 years old.

In one case it did not involve sexual penetration, but certainly involved coercive manipulation by older men amounting not to but sexual assault. Rightly or wrongly, they did not wish to take police action. They were certainly struggling to process intense feelings of shame, self-hatred etc, even when I linked them to published work showing their feelings were very common amongst abused people. They appreciated me creating stories to help them process them, including strong elements of female submission, but I wrote a disclaimer at top of one of them in case anyone might say I would consider such things in real life. There comes a point however, when you feel like an unqualified therapist and certain requests I could not accede to as I was not sure they would not do more harm than good.

The second one involved , something I had come across in real life with a female friend. Here the guilt seemed less obvious, but once again one wonders where things might lead. Again, it is an arena where the woman will lead the narrative.....

You do not usually start interactions on here with: 'were you abused as a child?' So if what appears initially to be rather exacting rp turns out to have a darker background, are you guilty for having that come to the surface or should you be commended that they trust you enough to share what must be dark secrets from their past?

14 May 2018

Quote by lafayettemister
I guess it depends on who is sexualizing the violence and for what purpose. If you get off on Sansa Stark being by Ramsay Bolton, then that's not okay. If you find a partner that likes it a little rough and she lets you choke her (a little) that may be okay. But, if during that choking fun, she looks into your eyes and sees a different person or sees the "wrong kind" of enjoyment... then she may deem that not okay and never do that with that person again.

As for the conversation between Sprite and Milik, there are/will be some unintended consequences of the #MeToo movement. He's right though, due process should be a priority for everyone. There are degrees of murder and robbery and . Trial by media lumps everyone together. HW's actions are exponentially worse that Franken's. But, they suffered the same basic fate.

I think one of the unintended consequences will be a growing emphasis on abstinence. Parents are going to send their teens out to high school and college with lots of encouragement to respect girls/women, and "wait for the right one" or "wait until you're married", just out of fear of their sons doing something stupid.

I can think back to my teen years and early 20's. We all did shit back then that would NOT be acceptable in today's society. There are numerous times we'd go out in groups and get hammered, go to someone's house and fuck. Or makeout/oral/finger/jerkoff/tittyfeel/rub cock/whatever. No one "consented", but it was all in good fun. That big group of people are all still friends today and no one looks back and thinks.."i was drunk that night, so you me". When my son goes away to college, I'm going to encourage him to not have sex with anyone unless she's cold stone sober. Call me an asshole, if you wish. But, I'd rahter be safe than sorry. No room for misunderstanding that way.

One of my schticks in high school was pantsing people. Guys and girls. If you were wearing shorts, I'd drop 'em to your knees. If I did it to someone, and it realllly pissed them off, I wouldn't do it again. If they laughed about it and chased me (normally the girls would do this) and hit me and try to get me back.. I knew it was cool. These days, I'd get locked up for that.

That is an interesting question about Sansa Stark and Ramesy Bolton. I think a more interesting example is Celeste and Perry Wright. I know lots of women who think domestic violence is wrong. In fact, I'd wager nearly all of them do. And yet, many of them found the sex in Big Little Lies (another HBO show) that preceded domestic violence to be exceptionally hot. So, what is the difference between the two? Granted, Skarsgard is about the dreamiest guy alive it is really all in how you package it. I think you can make all sorts of violence sexy and acceptable(ish) within a well crafted narrative. That might be the true brilliance of what Big Little Lies achieved. It made the viewer turned on by a terrible thing, forcing us all tho examine our own darkness, and the relationship that many ignore but does exist between violence and sex.

22 May 2018

Quote by LovingSadist
Serious question for a change:

Recently the NY attorney general was accused of committing acts of violence against women he was dating. He claims what he did was part of a consensual role play. The accuracy of those claims notwithstanding, do you think it is OK to sexualize violence between consenting adults? Would how you feel change if one or both parties involved come from an abusive background? Is allowing for violence as part of a role play a slippery slope that will inevitably lead to non consenual violence?

" Would how you feel change if one or both parties involved come from an abusive background?" many who read YOUR question missed it true intent, probably passing it off as incompetent ability to ask simple question, that has Only one true answer, when really you have ulterior motives or would you rather the incompetence??

This part of question You posed would appear to be "steering & fishing " for a DESIRED answer, from those who would read it, or manipulating the question. the reader is tricked to answer "yes " in the offernmative, or choosing the" false choice", of one, having excuses because of an abusive back ground. That Abuse is " OK "
If one was from an abusive background, (none of us are really responsible for our actions, if we can find transfer blame (victimhood mentality ).
I believe you couched the question in such a manner to do just that.
SO YOU could make The case to give The NY attrny. Gen. a pass or excuse his behavior somehow?
therby HE then cannot be held accountable for his actions because of his background?? what i call fishing for a "False choice" in reality

.. to a gauge or test acceptance of Violence under certain circumstances and when combined in context with the previous "is OK to sexualize violence between consenting adults?" What i call a "setup" Question " Abuse" by the very nature of the word denotes that it is NOT consensual, conversation over... no matter how much you twist the question...

22 May 2018

Quote by Johnyutah

" Would how you feel change if one or both parties involved come from an abusive background?" many who read YOUR question missed it true intent, probably passing it off as incompetent ability to ask simple question, that has Only one true answer, when really you have ulterior motives or would you rather the incompetence??

This part of question You posed would appear to be "steering & fishing " for a DESIRED answer, from those who would read it, or manipulating the question. the reader is tricked to answer "yes " in the offernmative, or choosing the" false choice", of one, having excuses because of an abusive back ground. That Abuse is " OK "
If one was from an abusive background, (none of us are really responsible for our actions, if we can find transfer blame (victimhood mentality ).
I believe you couched the question in such a manner to do just that.
SO YOU could make The case to give The NY attrny. Gen. a pass or excuse his behavior somehow?
therby HE then cannot be held accountable for his actions because of his background?? what i call fishing for a "False choice" in reality

.. to a gauge or test acceptance of Violence under certain circumstances and when combined in context with the previous "is OK to sexualize violence between consenting adults?" What i call a "setup" Question " Abuse" by the very nature of the word denotes that it is NOT consensual, conversation over... no matter how much you twist the question...

Caught me. I love beating women.

22 May 2018

I be like, suck my dick or I’ll blow your brains out.

23 May 2018

Quote by ivanka_simkiewisz
So the main topic is about violence, making it look sexy in some way,
and not about being violent during sexual acts, as the topic is literally stated?

Hmmm...Violence: the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy.

In either case I would say definitely NO.

The act of bill-boarding violence as a good, moral, or even as a sexy trait, should never be tolerated on any media source, or in private.
That would be an illogical, immoral, and unintelligent thing to do or promote.
Giving the impression to others, that because someone is sexy, then they are a good roll model to young adults or anyone,
it is then ok if they are violent, their immoral actions are ok, is basically just what an illiterate, immoral, or mentally ill person would feel or think.

If this topic was intended to be something regarding (Domineering Violent Behavior) during sex, or when with your Mistress/Master?
I would also say NO.

A sexual partner would get violence from me in return and maybe shot.
If with your Mistress/Master?... A really good DOMME isn't supposed to be violent, never was intended to be such,
but only to be Domineering, physically, mentally, and sexually, as your guide, and help you with your desires as you help her become a better Mistress.

I am only and truly free, when I am bound...NOT being violated.

Either you misunderstood the OP, or the interpretation of your post got it wrong. It’s about consensual sex play.

My new Flash Fiction:

An Extraordinary Orgasm.

https://www.lushstories.com/stories/flash-erotica/an-extraordinary-orgasm-2

25 May 2018

Quote by sprite

people like Cosby, Rapestein, Polanksi, etc, deserve to be destroyed. Others, like Franken and some others who committed relatively lesser acts, not so much. in fact, in the long run, vilifying assholes as opposed to monsters could be somewhat back setting to the cause. We're going to agree on that. and yes, it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

and i agree with your concerns. There's a huge difference between consensual play or writing erotica and actual sexual abuse. hopefully it won't ever go down that rabbit hole - right now, all the media is concerned about are the big cases. the men in power, the celebs, etc.

i think what Me Too is doing right is it's started a conversation about what is right and wrong and what women go through on a daily basis. here's something for others to think about (i know this is something you're already aware of - your a good man, Milik - a lot of the men here are, and i would hate for the back lash to effect any of you):

women who are go through public scrutiny and mob trial on a regular basis. things that are brought up. how we're dressed. our sexual history. if we were drinking. all that stuff is brought up to discredit the victims. again, there's a bit of a 'this is what WE go through - it's your turn' going on here - i won't lie and say that goes through my mind at times like this.

btw, this, from 2 days ago:

A Tennessee teenager stabbed her classmate with a pair of scissors because he pulled up her dress, police say.

A male student allegedly pulled up a peer's dress in the classroom at Central High School in Memphis.

The girl reportedly responded by snatching a pair of scissors and stabbing him after multiple missed attempts.

Both students have been issued jury summons following the incident. It is not known exactly when the stabbing occurred.

The male student reportedly told police that 'he was only playing and never exposed the victim'.

He has received a summons for sexual battery, and the female student received one for aggravated assault.

She faces felony charges after acting in self-defence (imo) while he faces misdemeanor charges, since he was only playing. How the fuck was she supposed to know that? trust me, when someone's trying to lift up our dresses without our consent, can you blame us if we assume that it's a prelude to more unless we put an immediate stop to it? if i was walking to my car and some guy came up and tried to lift my dress, i would have stabbed him too - and if i hadn't, everyone would be asking why i didn't fight back and made it my fault that i let him do whatever he had planned to me.

btw, the boy received injuries minor enough that they were treated by the school nurse.

I would been equally unset as a teen if the fellow student pulled up my dress. However, the response needs be reasonable and appropriate.

If a thief breaks into your house and is trying to steal your Bling. In most states you could shoot for the threat and his action and not be charged with anything.

Although, this does not mean that when he drops your Bling and runs down the street that you can chase him down and then shoot him. Most places you are in serious Legal Jeopardy.

There is a line that a Victim should not cross and this woman thinks the girl with the pulled up dress is very close to that line.

Not a lot of good and reasonable answer anywhere on this subject.

25 May 2018

Quote by sprite

OOOOOP's

Are you sure?