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Avoiding the Friendzone
Advanced Wordsmith
lol if you have to post this you're already there.
Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
Wanna know a secret? We ladies don't friend zone you guys. You do it to yourself. Here's how:
1. We start out being friends but you don't make a move and continue to provide emotional and sometimes other types of support in hopes of it turning into more. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn't.
2. You make a move, and we tell you that we're not interested. So you figure that if you stay in our good graces by befriending us or sometimes you go so far as to do the things that boyfriends do for girlfriends in hopes that it turns into more. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn't.
3. In relation to number one, you befriend us with the SOLE purpose of it turning into more. Friendship isn't what you're after. Hooking up or being in a relationship is what you're after. That's deceitful. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn't.
Don't do these things, and you avoid the friend zone. Make a move and see where it goes. Make your intentions clear up front, even if we turn out not to be interested. It would save you a lot of heartache and frustration.
1. We start out being friends but you don't make a move and continue to provide emotional and sometimes other types of support in hopes of it turning into more. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn't.
2. You make a move, and we tell you that we're not interested. So you figure that if you stay in our good graces by befriending us or sometimes you go so far as to do the things that boyfriends do for girlfriends in hopes that it turns into more. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn't.
3. In relation to number one, you befriend us with the SOLE purpose of it turning into more. Friendship isn't what you're after. Hooking up or being in a relationship is what you're after. That's deceitful. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn't.
Don't do these things, and you avoid the friend zone. Make a move and see where it goes. Make your intentions clear up front, even if we turn out not to be interested. It would save you a lot of heartache and frustration.
░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░
Active Ink Slinger
Transform yourself into Channing Tatum and you will NEVER be in the friend zone again!
Everything happens for a reason. Live for the moment and have no regrets.
Active Ink Slinger
As the girls, but I don't care, because I have something important to contribute here. Asking a woman what attracts her, i've found can be a red herring. Because the simple fact is that most people don't know what attracts them, they only think they know... Muscles, tattoos, tall etc etc... I've heard it all, and yes I'm sure women would say thats what they find attractive, and believe me, almost all of them are still susceptible to falling for a short thin guy with no tattos IF the guy in question has a host of other attractive qualities.
Avoiding the friend zone is actually highly easy. But for inexperienced people, it's always the same trap that gets them, every, single, time. Because getting the girl you want can oft at times require counter intuitive behaviour. I know because I've been there, ALOT of times in the past, until my journey through life, and (various reading material) actually enlightened me about how attraction works. There are many hints and tips I've picked up along the way, and yes, to anybody who has read The Game, will know what I'm talking about.
Alot of people think attraction is simply built in, you either are, or you aren't. This is a lie. You CAN learn to be attractive. When girls say they have a type, and you're not it, blow them out of the water. Yes we all have our 'type', and yet we are still completely capable of falling for somebody that goes against all of the traits of our 'type'.
I'm dating a girl who is 2 inches taller than me, my 'type' is small and petit and usually not taller than my shoulder. Theres one theory blown.
I'm no pickup artist, I've had alot of failures and rejections with women, but I've also had my fair share of success, so I know now how this stuff works
I found this on Neil Strauss' website, read it, take it in, it's handy information.
3 Ways To Avoid Being Friend-Zoned
Posted by Neil on Jun 12, 2014 | 26 comments
Today’s guest blogger, writer and Inner-Circle member Georgie Beal, gives us the female perspective on the dreaded friend-zone…
A general definition of the friend-zone would be the state of limbo a boy feels when he has obtained a friend like relationship with a girl with the intent of future intimacy that is denied or ignored by the other party.
It’s understandable why this relationship would confuse and frustrate. Especially considering the time and effort that might have been given to nurture the friendship. However it must be remembered that unlike boys, girls are designed to seek commitment and resources before selecting their partner. This is the basic instinct the majority of females feel.
With this in mind, it makes sense that if a girl can acquire commitment and resources without the exchange of sex, why would she bother to provide intimacy in return? Similarly, if a man can get sex without commitment, why would he bother to commit? In most cases he wouldn’t, just as woman won’t.
Women have had an understanding of this for a long time, which is why advice has historically been given that a girl should play hard to get, make him wait before sex and so on. In doing so, adding value to herself and the assets she offers. In this case, the intimacy she can provide is her precious asset. In a man’s case, it is his commitment and resources.
To ensure you are not stuck in limbo, as so many men often are, there are three important rules to remember when having a friendship with a girl you wish to turn into something more.
fzone
Be The Gatekeeper Of Your Emotional Support
I find that the most common mistake for guys whining about being stuck in the friend-zone is that they all fall into the same trap. They talk to the target girl about everything, they are the shoulder she cries on, providing emotional support without restrictions, while assuming in some way this will increase the bonding in the relationship. It will not.
Most girls are used to discussing their feelings with many different types of people. This is not a special or rare occurrence. Particularly these feelings are often shared with their closest female friends. By socializing in such a way before romantic feelings have developed for the girl, one is putting themselves in a feminine social position. Clearly a disadvantageous spot to be in.
To avoid this, the key here is to make a girl work for your emotional support providing capabilities. Do not let yourself be associated with her misery or misfortune, or worse yet her flailing relationships. Instead, rather be a friend she turns to when she is need for excitement, fun and adventure. By doing so you are associating yourself with similar feelings to arousal rather than all the negativity in her life.
Emotional support is the prize you offer, make her work for it. Don’t hand it out to everyone like it has no value. Save it for the relationship.
Treat Her As Your Equal
Another behavior many guys display when stuck in the friend-zone is that they idolize their target. Prioritizing her needs above their own, her whims above their friends. In doing so, putting the target in a position of power. This is unhealthy as well as undesirable to the target.
Most women will not be attracted to men who so easily become doormats. As frustrating as it is, being the perfect friend will in no way convince a girl to leave her douchebag boyfriend. In fact, by providing all those boyfriend behaviors without being in an intimate relationship, you are encouraging the girl to stay with her douchebag boyfriend who might stimulate her sexual needs, while you care for her other sexless needs in the background.
Therefore, it is vital to treat her as any other friend. If you wouldn’t go out of your way to drive your male friend home, do not drive your female friend home. All these affectionate and resource providing behaviors need to be saved for the dating and relationship stage. Doing so under the pretext of friendship will only solidify that friendship and ensure a very difficult battle out of it.
Make A Move
Lastly, the most important rule to remember is that you actually need to make a move. In the modern world, it is perfectly acceptable for a boy to be friends with a girl without ulterior motives. Being aware of this, girls now may have doubt in their minds as to what your feelings and intentions are. The longer you wait to act, the more time they have to convince themselves that you are not attracted to them and not an option for a future boyfriend. Having this thought diminishes your chances considerably.
Furthermore, the girl may simply not be that into you as you lack the skills or technique to gain her interest yet. This information is better known early on as it prevents the friend-zone situation occurring in the first place. This does not mean you necessarily have to give up on the girl or the friendship but at least you know where you stand in her eyes and have the option to pursue others.
What To Do If You’re Already In The Zone
Assuming you are already friend-zoned, all this information is probably coming to you a little bit late. However fear not, you can still make it out if you are prepared to make the sacrifices.
Firstly, you need to stop contacting your targeted friend. Slowly but surely, you need to distance yourself, become less familiar and fade out of her life. This may take time, a few months at minimum, years if necessary. Secondly, you must utilize this time, become the man you want to be, achieve your goals, meet new people, have new relationships, obtain life experience. If you’re not prepared to do this, you have to ask yourself if you’re attitude isn’t perhaps holding you back in the first place. Thirdly, after a period of time away with new changes and developments to present, approach your target again. Be flirtatious from the start and make it apparent you are no longer the sweet door mat she remembers. You have changed and are worth her attention now. Nothing is more attractive to woman than transformation in a man.
If you follow the above three rules in all your interactions, as well as other techniques you’ve learned you have a shot at a success. Remember, you have value. There is no reason to lower your position, maintain your status and at the very least she will respect you more for it.
This was just a copy and paste, Don't credit me for this...
Avoiding the friend zone is actually highly easy. But for inexperienced people, it's always the same trap that gets them, every, single, time. Because getting the girl you want can oft at times require counter intuitive behaviour. I know because I've been there, ALOT of times in the past, until my journey through life, and (various reading material) actually enlightened me about how attraction works. There are many hints and tips I've picked up along the way, and yes, to anybody who has read The Game, will know what I'm talking about.
Alot of people think attraction is simply built in, you either are, or you aren't. This is a lie. You CAN learn to be attractive. When girls say they have a type, and you're not it, blow them out of the water. Yes we all have our 'type', and yet we are still completely capable of falling for somebody that goes against all of the traits of our 'type'.
I'm dating a girl who is 2 inches taller than me, my 'type' is small and petit and usually not taller than my shoulder. Theres one theory blown.
I'm no pickup artist, I've had alot of failures and rejections with women, but I've also had my fair share of success, so I know now how this stuff works
I found this on Neil Strauss' website, read it, take it in, it's handy information.
3 Ways To Avoid Being Friend-Zoned
Posted by Neil on Jun 12, 2014 | 26 comments
Today’s guest blogger, writer and Inner-Circle member Georgie Beal, gives us the female perspective on the dreaded friend-zone…
A general definition of the friend-zone would be the state of limbo a boy feels when he has obtained a friend like relationship with a girl with the intent of future intimacy that is denied or ignored by the other party.
It’s understandable why this relationship would confuse and frustrate. Especially considering the time and effort that might have been given to nurture the friendship. However it must be remembered that unlike boys, girls are designed to seek commitment and resources before selecting their partner. This is the basic instinct the majority of females feel.
With this in mind, it makes sense that if a girl can acquire commitment and resources without the exchange of sex, why would she bother to provide intimacy in return? Similarly, if a man can get sex without commitment, why would he bother to commit? In most cases he wouldn’t, just as woman won’t.
Women have had an understanding of this for a long time, which is why advice has historically been given that a girl should play hard to get, make him wait before sex and so on. In doing so, adding value to herself and the assets she offers. In this case, the intimacy she can provide is her precious asset. In a man’s case, it is his commitment and resources.
To ensure you are not stuck in limbo, as so many men often are, there are three important rules to remember when having a friendship with a girl you wish to turn into something more.
fzone
Be The Gatekeeper Of Your Emotional Support
I find that the most common mistake for guys whining about being stuck in the friend-zone is that they all fall into the same trap. They talk to the target girl about everything, they are the shoulder she cries on, providing emotional support without restrictions, while assuming in some way this will increase the bonding in the relationship. It will not.
Most girls are used to discussing their feelings with many different types of people. This is not a special or rare occurrence. Particularly these feelings are often shared with their closest female friends. By socializing in such a way before romantic feelings have developed for the girl, one is putting themselves in a feminine social position. Clearly a disadvantageous spot to be in.
To avoid this, the key here is to make a girl work for your emotional support providing capabilities. Do not let yourself be associated with her misery or misfortune, or worse yet her flailing relationships. Instead, rather be a friend she turns to when she is need for excitement, fun and adventure. By doing so you are associating yourself with similar feelings to arousal rather than all the negativity in her life.
Emotional support is the prize you offer, make her work for it. Don’t hand it out to everyone like it has no value. Save it for the relationship.
Treat Her As Your Equal
Another behavior many guys display when stuck in the friend-zone is that they idolize their target. Prioritizing her needs above their own, her whims above their friends. In doing so, putting the target in a position of power. This is unhealthy as well as undesirable to the target.
Most women will not be attracted to men who so easily become doormats. As frustrating as it is, being the perfect friend will in no way convince a girl to leave her douchebag boyfriend. In fact, by providing all those boyfriend behaviors without being in an intimate relationship, you are encouraging the girl to stay with her douchebag boyfriend who might stimulate her sexual needs, while you care for her other sexless needs in the background.
Therefore, it is vital to treat her as any other friend. If you wouldn’t go out of your way to drive your male friend home, do not drive your female friend home. All these affectionate and resource providing behaviors need to be saved for the dating and relationship stage. Doing so under the pretext of friendship will only solidify that friendship and ensure a very difficult battle out of it.
Make A Move
Lastly, the most important rule to remember is that you actually need to make a move. In the modern world, it is perfectly acceptable for a boy to be friends with a girl without ulterior motives. Being aware of this, girls now may have doubt in their minds as to what your feelings and intentions are. The longer you wait to act, the more time they have to convince themselves that you are not attracted to them and not an option for a future boyfriend. Having this thought diminishes your chances considerably.
Furthermore, the girl may simply not be that into you as you lack the skills or technique to gain her interest yet. This information is better known early on as it prevents the friend-zone situation occurring in the first place. This does not mean you necessarily have to give up on the girl or the friendship but at least you know where you stand in her eyes and have the option to pursue others.
What To Do If You’re Already In The Zone
Assuming you are already friend-zoned, all this information is probably coming to you a little bit late. However fear not, you can still make it out if you are prepared to make the sacrifices.
Firstly, you need to stop contacting your targeted friend. Slowly but surely, you need to distance yourself, become less familiar and fade out of her life. This may take time, a few months at minimum, years if necessary. Secondly, you must utilize this time, become the man you want to be, achieve your goals, meet new people, have new relationships, obtain life experience. If you’re not prepared to do this, you have to ask yourself if you’re attitude isn’t perhaps holding you back in the first place. Thirdly, after a period of time away with new changes and developments to present, approach your target again. Be flirtatious from the start and make it apparent you are no longer the sweet door mat she remembers. You have changed and are worth her attention now. Nothing is more attractive to woman than transformation in a man.
If you follow the above three rules in all your interactions, as well as other techniques you’ve learned you have a shot at a success. Remember, you have value. There is no reason to lower your position, maintain your status and at the very least she will respect you more for it.
This was just a copy and paste, Don't credit me for this...
If you don't want to be friend zone then give a reason why you shouldn't be. Make a move tell the girl and get it over with. Either she likes you and wants to give it a shot or she doesn't. Guys think all girls want is a bad boy yeah that kind of guy is sexy but a girl also wants a sweet guy. But not a push over kind. Be bold and make a move and if something happens then congrats. If not pick yourself up and move on.
Clumeleon
Rookie Scribe
Lol to be honest I think the 'friend zone' gets a bad rep. A lot of the best long-term relationships start from there. If you're just after the physical, but you're not her type, you'll probably end up in the friend zone whether you try to avoid it or not.
My advice would be to not lose hope if you do end up there.
My advice would be to not lose hope if you do end up there.
Active Ink Slinger
the only way you spend your life in the friend zone is if you:
a). decide that whether or not you are in it is up to one girl, and
b). don't take a bloody hint and move on with your life.
seriously, if someone isn't attracted to you they aren't attracted to you. deal with it and go find someone who is.
don't decide what you need to do is hit on them harder or w/ more stealth. lot of guys who frequent PUA sites think you need to do one of those things, and it's fuck-all annoying.
a). decide that whether or not you are in it is up to one girl, and
b). don't take a bloody hint and move on with your life.
seriously, if someone isn't attracted to you they aren't attracted to you. deal with it and go find someone who is.
don't decide what you need to do is hit on them harder or w/ more stealth. lot of guys who frequent PUA sites think you need to do one of those things, and it's fuck-all annoying.
Alpha Blonde
Guys - play your cards up front. Make it obvious what your intentions are. Don't go, "oh, I'll be friends with her first and then figure it out later because by then she will be lovestruck based on what a great guy I am." Wrong. This is called being a friend-faker and a sketchy-schemer. Don't blame the girl for not wanting to fuck you just because she thinks you're a nice guy and a good friend to her. The worst thing you can do is fake being a friend to someone for the sole purpose of getting into her pants and then self-righteously ex-communicating her when she finally tells you for the twentieth time that she's not interested in you and doesn't see you that way.
Don't look for 'Do's' and 'Dont's' involving withholding friendship like it's some prize she'll be desperate to win. Chances are the girl that inspires this friend-zoning behaviour has plenty of friends already. What does suck is getting to know someone and wasting your time establishing a friendship (which is relevant too, because it IS a form of a genuine relationship) only to have the guy ditch out of it totally because he's decided to become permanently-sulky that you didn't have sex with him or want to be his girlfriend. Also - ignore advice that creates stereotypes like "her douchebag boyfriend"... it's quite possible he's a solid guy and you just see him as a douchebag because he has what you want.
If a guy sees a girl he wants - let it be known early-on. Flirt, ask her out, establish the chemistry. If she says you're a great guy but she's not into you because she has a boyfriend, isn't attracted to you, there's no chemistry, and she doesn't feel like you're a fit as a couple etc, take these things as facts. If you proceed from there, trying to win her over with the only intention of your friendship being sex/relationships, you have only yourself to blame... and really, like I said. It's a creepy thing to do, in my opinion. If she was up front with you, the least you can do is be honest in return, cause at that point, it's you that's playing 'The Game' on her and wasting her time - not the other way around. She's just being your friend - like she said she was going to be.
Don't look for 'Do's' and 'Dont's' involving withholding friendship like it's some prize she'll be desperate to win. Chances are the girl that inspires this friend-zoning behaviour has plenty of friends already. What does suck is getting to know someone and wasting your time establishing a friendship (which is relevant too, because it IS a form of a genuine relationship) only to have the guy ditch out of it totally because he's decided to become permanently-sulky that you didn't have sex with him or want to be his girlfriend. Also - ignore advice that creates stereotypes like "her douchebag boyfriend"... it's quite possible he's a solid guy and you just see him as a douchebag because he has what you want.
If a guy sees a girl he wants - let it be known early-on. Flirt, ask her out, establish the chemistry. If she says you're a great guy but she's not into you because she has a boyfriend, isn't attracted to you, there's no chemistry, and she doesn't feel like you're a fit as a couple etc, take these things as facts. If you proceed from there, trying to win her over with the only intention of your friendship being sex/relationships, you have only yourself to blame... and really, like I said. It's a creepy thing to do, in my opinion. If she was up front with you, the least you can do is be honest in return, cause at that point, it's you that's playing 'The Game' on her and wasting her time - not the other way around. She's just being your friend - like she said she was going to be.
Active Ink Slinger
Quote by bustyreadhead
don't decide what you need to do is hit on them harder or w/ more stealth, lot of guys who frequent PUA sites think you need to do one of those things, and it's fuck-all annoying.
Actually, I've never heard a PUA do this at all, this does not sound like PUA advice, it sounds like AFC advice (Average Frustrated Chump).
A PUA would give you the opposite advice, in fact if you'd looked above you would have seen what a PUA has to say.
I have to back up Dancing Doll.
By getting yourself in the friendzone, you're less trustworthy than every other guy in town. Because you're technically in a position of trust, but you have BIG ulterior motives. You're not being true to yourself, you're not being honest to her, you're a fake friend, you're just too gutless to go for it.
Something along the lines of distancing yourself from her so that she starts to seek you, being must more relaxed and far less needy in her presence, attending and inviting her to your own exciting agenda, instead of fighting to become part of her agenda all the time, meeting new interesting people instead of dedicating so much time to her. D
Don't seek her approval, don't look for her to validate you, don't ask for her opinion, don't compliment her on anything, unless she has actually earned it. Disqualify her if you have to, and make her work for your attention. Imagine how you would act if you wern't attracted to her, and don't treat her any differently from them.
Don't put her needs before the needs for yourself and others in the room. Gain your own social proof and become the centre of the room. I know it's bizzare and sounds like reverse psychology, but its true.
In this wierd world it's the guys who are the most relaxed, don't give a fuck take-a-chance, strong, confident guys, that get the results. You've got plenty of time to be needy, compilmentary and loving towards her, once you're in a relationship with her.
And often, what women say they want in a relationship, is not necessarly the same thing that attracts them during the intial courtship phase. Needy guys are far too easy, and not much fun. Putting in less effort can get you better results. As Neil Strauss says, It takes alot of effort to look effortless.
This doesn't mean you need to be an arsehole, not at all, but don't go above the call of duty until she has earned it, because for some reason this world seems to think that attractive people are automatically owed something.
And for fuck sake, let go of your outcome. If it doesn't happen, move on and don't beat yourself up, negative thoughts will just damage your chances with other girls you like in the future.
@CLUM
I had to youtube that because I honestly didnt believe it. Ha Brilliant
Story Verifier
I've read some of this thread, not all of it, so I apologize if I repeat anything. I have read some great advice here, but I have something to add. It's my opinion, and I'm not trying to state this as fact. There is no friend zone. It's a myth. A pervasive urban legend, really, and one which was created by two groups of people: those who have asked once or twice or a few times, and been turned down in a less than definite manner, and those who simply don't have the courage to ask in the first place.
Yes it's true, both women and men have been known to change their minds. That doesn't mean you were trapped in a different zone. It means they changed their minds. If somebody is actively keeping you in their 'friendzone', then you're barking up a really bitchy tree. It's okay though, everyone does at some time or another. The actual point I'm trying to make is that thinking of your lack of progress as a special prison-like zone is a self-confining attitude, and you won't have any luck as long as you stay behind those walls. If you've already asked your potential partner out before and he or she has declined, then you have to give them a reason to change their mind about you. If you haven't asked, then just fucking ask already. For anybody who's nervous about that process itself, I say the following. Do your best not to stutter, stand up straight and don't worry about the outcome, because one way or another, you're going to know what your next step is.
Yes it's true, both women and men have been known to change their minds. That doesn't mean you were trapped in a different zone. It means they changed their minds. If somebody is actively keeping you in their 'friendzone', then you're barking up a really bitchy tree. It's okay though, everyone does at some time or another. The actual point I'm trying to make is that thinking of your lack of progress as a special prison-like zone is a self-confining attitude, and you won't have any luck as long as you stay behind those walls. If you've already asked your potential partner out before and he or she has declined, then you have to give them a reason to change their mind about you. If you haven't asked, then just fucking ask already. For anybody who's nervous about that process itself, I say the following. Do your best not to stutter, stand up straight and don't worry about the outcome, because one way or another, you're going to know what your next step is.
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Active Ink Slinger
"Actually, I've never heard a PUA do this at all, this does not sound like PUA advice, it sounds like AFC advice (Average Frustrated Chump)."
yeah, sure. look, you sit in a bar and have wave after wave of guy come up and give you some clever "neg" and see how long it takes you before you want to stop hanging out at the bar.
yeah, sure. look, you sit in a bar and have wave after wave of guy come up and give you some clever "neg" and see how long it takes you before you want to stop hanging out at the bar.
Active Ink Slinger
Negging is a losers trick. I've heard guys doing it, I know Mystery liked a neg or two, but it's a tactic that I really do not like, and the most confident, socially adept guys, wouldn't stoop so low. It's a clear display of insecurity when you have to insult a woman and drag her down to your level, in an effort to get her knickers off.
True men who have played the game, will always remember the golden rule. Leave her better than you found her. Doesn't mean you need to shower her in compliments, but you should at least make a women feel good about herself.
A true gentleman tries to raise himself to her level, not degrade her to his. The only time a Neg should/could be an outside option, is when dealing with a 'I-worship-the-ground-I-walk-on' kinda girl who so consumed with her own beauty that she downgrades everybody else in the room, so the neg is deployed in order to get her off her high horse. I have to say, I never Neg, and if I have, it's been accidental. But don't mistake a Neg for flirtatious teasing. Which is fun, attractive and pumps the sexual tension up a knotch.
True men who have played the game, will always remember the golden rule. Leave her better than you found her. Doesn't mean you need to shower her in compliments, but you should at least make a women feel good about herself.
A true gentleman tries to raise himself to her level, not degrade her to his. The only time a Neg should/could be an outside option, is when dealing with a 'I-worship-the-ground-I-walk-on' kinda girl who so consumed with her own beauty that she downgrades everybody else in the room, so the neg is deployed in order to get her off her high horse. I have to say, I never Neg, and if I have, it's been accidental. But don't mistake a Neg for flirtatious teasing. Which is fun, attractive and pumps the sexual tension up a knotch.
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