Please do not contact us about "low" votes on your stories / poems

10 Apr 2021

Quote by RumpleForeskin
IMO, the five-point system is overkill here at Lush because the mods usually keep one and two level stories from being verified. I've always felt a three part scale with top to bottom being labeled something along the lines of (Very good -- Good -- Needs work) being both kinder and more helpful.

The bottom line, again IMO, is to get more helpful comments, reply to all the comments your story receives and give helpful comments whenever possible. Good luck.

good point, Bill, but i want to take it further.

three scores:

-what the fuck were you even thinking.
-okay, at least you tried.
-made me orgasm in my panties.

smile

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

10 Apr 2021

Quote by sprite

-made me orgasm in my panties.

This one needs to be supported with documentary evidence like pics and videos, I think. clown

And what if it's a guy? I generally try NOT to cum in my undies. Too messy.

In principle, though, I like where you're going with this (and Bill's idea, too).

10 Apr 2021

Quote by seeker4

This one needs to be supported with documentary evidence like pics and videos, I think.

And what if it's a guy? I generally try NOT to cum in my undies. Too messy.

In principle, though, I like where you're going with this (and Bill's idea, too).

it's a work in process? lol also, happy to send pictures, but they're gonna cost you. ;)

You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.

10 Apr 2021

Quote by seeker4

I think 3-4 is probably really where most stories should be if we are really using this as a rating system. The RR and EP stuff should be the only 5s plus maybe a few that get overlooked for those rewards. A rating system where 5 is the norm isn't a rating system, IMHO. 1 should be the crappy stuff that barely slips past the mods. 2 should be the so-so stuff. 3-4 the usual. And 5 the real quality stuff.

But, as I said, it tends to be used as a Like system. Even the comments tend to be cheerleading. Only a few people here actually give detailed comments or even critiques. Rump tends to be good about that and his comments, both public and private, have been helpful over the years.

There is a site where if you get a 1 or 2 (on a one to five scale) - well, you live with it. The lowest I just saw was a 1.45. Actually there aren't that many below 2.

Comments can be hard to get on any site. I guess people are too distracted to bother. There are some notable exceptions on Lush Stories, including the competitions.

10 Apr 2021

Quote by LakeShoreLimited

There is a site where if you get a 1 or 2 (on a one to five scale) - well, you live with it. The lowest I just saw was a 1.45. Actually there aren't that many below 2.

Which suggests to me that people there are actually using the scoring system as a scoring system which means there is a point to them having one. There just does not seem to be much point to it here anymore given the way people are using it.

10 Apr 2021

Although people rail against the "system" (not just in writing and critiquing of stories, which is what this thread is all about), but about life in general. Although the current buzzwords are equality and, more recently, equity (they don't mean the same thing), the reality is both continue to exist because "we" feel someone or something else is responsible for us not being where "we" think we should be. The reality is, in my humble opinion, for what that is worth, is that while "we" cry out for equality and equity, what "we" really want is to be or have what you have and for you to be in our position.

There is a similar thread in the forum asking why female writers seem to get more reads than male writers. Different question but the reasoning is along similar lines. I want more people to read "my" story than "your's." It's not fair (you can exchange fair with equitable or equal if you chose) that "you" get more reads because "you" are a woman and I'm a man. It's not fair that certain categories get more reads than others.

It's not "my" fault so it must be the moderators, someone else or some other "group" of people; it's not fair the same writers always in the top ten of the competitions - the judges or the process must be the problem, etc.

Meagan

10 Apr 2021

Quote by Meagananne1986
Although people rail against the "system" (not just in writing and critiquing of stories, which is what this thread is all about), but about life in general. Although the current buzzwords are equality and, more recently, equity (they don't mean the same thing), the reality is both continue to exist because "we" feel someone or something else is responsible for us not being where "we" think we should be. The reality is, in my humble opinion, for what that is worth, is that while "we" cry out for equality and equity, what "we" really want is to be or have what you have and for you to be in our position.

There is a similar thread in the forum asking why female writers seem to get more reads than male writers. Different question but the reasoning is along similar lines. I want more people to read "my" story than "your's." It's not fair (you can exchange fair with equitable or equal if you chose) that "you" get more reads because "you" are a woman and I'm a man. It's not fair that certain categories get more reads than others.

It's not "my" fault so it must be the moderators, someone else or some other "group" of people; it's not fair the same writers always in the top ten of the competitions - the judges or the process must be the problem, etc.

Pretty much. We all need to take more accountability for our work and the reviews, views and such. I try not to complain myself and aim to see it as, "Hmm, what could I have done differently to encourage more readers? More scores, etc..."

I believe we have to look at it that way, or we'll always gripe about stuff when we should be trying to up our game.

As for the ratings, Kimmi and Seeker are right. It has become a free for all regarding 5s. As I became more attached to the site, I allowed myself to go that route also. This past week, I've tried to be a bit more honest with my ratings.

My last published story: Ho For The Holidays

10 Apr 2021

Quote by sprite

good point, Bill, but i want to take it further.

three scores:

-what the fuck were you even thinking.
-okay, at least you tried.
-made me orgasm in my panties.

I like it, Sprite! Actually, I wouldn't be offended with the 'what the fuck were you even thinking' ... it just means my story drew a strong reaction. That's my goal - to make the reader feel something. Feelings like 'What the fuck?' are better than indifference to me. pigtail smile

But, I stand by ... don't get hung up on scores or you will lose the fun in writing. I set goals I alone control like getting the Omnium badge, etc. What the F will it matter if my rating is 4.95 vs 5 vs 1. Who looks at that before reading my story. If I write a story with a title like, "I Will Make You Cum Your Panties", readers won't stop to check my author rating before peeking in my story.

10 Apr 2021

Quote by KimmiBeGood
If I write a story with a title like, "I Will Make You Cum Your Panties", readers won't stop to check my author rating before peeking in my story.

Now, see? There's my problem right there. I've been going with "Gonna Make You Think, Work A Bit, Hoping You Feel A Little Tickle... Hey! Wake Up!" I have so much to learn.

11 Apr 2021

Quote by VioletVixen

'what the fuck were you even thinking' is obvs the best score evrrr. My end goal in everything.

A big WTF slowly being branded over your forehead while you find yourself confused and possibly aroused, but mostly confused with the general shittery disguised between tufts of flowery language and a big plate of wiggly squiggly san-nakji (산낙지).

mmmmm... delicious. All those suckers sticking to the back of my throat as I swallow, lubed up with sesame seed oil and extra sesame seeds for extra friction.

!

and then some

love9

11 Apr 2021

Quote by seeker4

Which suggests to me that people there are actually using the scoring system as a scoring system which means there is a point to them having one. There just does not seem to be much point to it here anymore given the way people are using it.

Definitely, the scoring there feels "real." You really have to put some effort into it to get a good score, although odd variables (like subject matter) come into play too. There are stories on Lush that never get scored and thus always remain at zero. But Lush is a far smaller and I guess newer site. There are only about 63,000 stories here while the other one has - I don't know, hundreds of thousands.

11 Apr 2021

I agree with many on here about not really worrying about scores or average score. However, scores DO count when it comes to competitions. I have had comp entries that have had high numbers of views, decent comments and scores but 1 or 2 lower scores which bring the average down. And an entry that was entered later in the comp, and had fewer views and votes, but gets all 5's because they got their friends all to vote, wins or places in the top 10. I am tempted to see what would happen if I waited until the last minute to submit a story and get a bunch of my friends to give it 5's. It seems to me, the longer a story sits in a comp, the more likely it is to get a few lower votes.

11 Apr 2021

Quote by kistinspencil

!!!!!

and then some

Careful or I might make this delicacy into a micro... or worse, a flash. 675-lick

11 Apr 2021

Quote by adele
I am tempted to see what would happen if I waited until the last minute to submit a story and get a bunch of my friends to give it 5's. It seems to me, the longer a story sits in a comp, the more likely it is to get a few lower votes.

Probably nothing different would happen.

The score you see may not be the score used because adjustments are made to allow for potential downvoting.

And often people entering late do so because they have worked on their story longer, editing, re-editing, perfecting, re-writing.

And the score is only part of what goes into choosing the winners. There's originality, grammar, erotic content, entertainment. That's why it's not a quick process of declaring a winner as soon as the deadline hits.

Quote by Meagananne1986
It's not "my" fault so it must be the moderators, someone else or some other "group" of people; it's not fair the same writers always in the top ten of the competitions - the judges or the process must be the problem, etc.

Couldn't agree more. Most feedback from comps is good because people are glad they're not run as a popularity contest. But it can be difficult for people to accept results when they've received so many votes and nice comments.

I've never won a competition. Never made top 3. And when I read the stories that did win I can appreciate why they won. They were better than mine, plain and simple. I think people need to try and have a slightly more critical eye where their own work is concerned.

11 Apr 2021

Quote by adele
I agree with many on here about not really worrying about scores or average score. However, scores DO count when it comes to competitions. I have had comp entries that have had high numbers of views, decent comments and scores but 1 or 2 lower scores which bring the average down. And an entry that was entered later in the comp, and had fewer views and votes, but gets all 5's because they got their friends all to vote, wins or places in the top 10. I am tempted to see what would happen if I waited until the last minute to submit a story and get a bunch of my friends to give it 5's. It seems to me, the longer a story sits in a comp, the more likely it is to get a few lower votes.

I can attest highest reads, votes, comments do NOT guarantee a mention in comps here. It may help get you on the shortlist sent to judges, but that's it. The judges decide not friends of the writer. I am usually one of the first to enter too, and haven’t seen that negatively affect me.

My take on comps is enter knowing it will bring you more readers and make you a better writer - a mention in results is just icing on the cake. And I find it fun to support other authors. There is a nice comradery in comps here.

11 Apr 2021

Quote by KimmiBeGood

My take on comps is enter knowing it will bring you more readers and make you a better writer - a mention in results is just icing on the cake. And I find it fun to support other authors. There is a nice comradery in comps here.

That's a great attitude to approach the competitions with, Kim.

As you say, the only purpose voting plays in the scheme of things is to get you over the minimum for consideration — which is something I really struggled to do with my very first entry. I ended up spamming all the people who had left nice comment son previous stories — much to my shame.

Rumour has it Nicola is a wizard at rooting out malicious voting, so saboteurs beware.

11 Apr 2021

Quote by KimmiBeGood
I can attest highest reads, votes, comments do NOT guarantee a mention in comps here. It may help get you on the shortlist sent to judges, but that's it. The judges decide not friends of the writer... My take on comps is enter knowing it will bring you more readers and make you a better writer...

This, 100%. I've written what I consider great stories for comps on many occasions that haven't even featured in the top 10, despite being awash with 5-votes and amazing comments. Quite simply: the story might have been good in its own right, but there were other stories in the comp that fit the theme better or worked better, or resonated more with the shortlisting/judging process, or just had that theme pizazz missing in mine.

I enter competitions when I have time because they stretch me as a writer. And I usually get more exposure than normal as it saves me having to do promotional work (which I don't do anyway, lol). I often get a handful of new followers off the back of a comp piece and learn something new about writing, from the comments and reading other entries. That's a win for me, regardless of the comp outcome.

Authors who work at their craft, editing, re-editing, honing to tell exceptional stories deserve every ounce of praise bestowed upon them. And anyone who enters a competition here is a star for stepping up, because it's a very tough gig with no guarantees, regardless of popularity and scores.

Please browse my digital bookshelf. In this collection, you can find 125 full stories, 10 micro-stories, and 3 poems with the following features:

* 30 Editor's Picks, 82 Recommended Reads.
* 16 competition podium places, 11 other times in the top ten.
* 23 collaborations.
* A whole heap of often filthy, tense, hot sex.

11 Apr 2021

I find myself very much of two minds here.

First, I write because I love to write. It's really nice if other people like it, and there's a bit of an ego boost when you get high scores and lots of comments, but if that were the reason I was here, I would have left a long time ago.

OTOH, I'm co-authoring a series with NikaS, and someone was consistently downscoring the stories for reasons unknown. I don't give a fuck about my own stories, but the series is about Nika's real life, and it bothered me, so I asked a moderator to look into it. They did, and the low scores disappeared. I appreciated that, but I've only done that for that one series, and because of my co-author.

Now, as to competitions, judging will never please everyone. Adele hit the nail on the head that there is a wide swath of belief running around that if I don't get what I want, then the system cheated me. I put it somewhat differently: everyone likes to talk about their "rights", but if you don't also talk equally about your "responsibilities" then you are sabotaging the system you live in.

I have no desire to be a judge. It is a difficult, thankless job, and the only feedback you're going to get is bitching. No, I often don't agree with the judges' decisions, and yes, there are deserving entries that I think have been overlooked. But that's irrelevant. It's not my opinion that counts, and I will often reach out to someone I thought should have won and say so. That doesn't mean the judging is wrong, just that the judges' opinion was different from mine.

And I agree that it can't just be a popularity contest, because then the members of longest standing, and those with the most friends would always win.

However, all of that said, the process of judging should be transparent enough so that people know it's not biased, and it's not just a popularity contest. There is so much hard work involved in judging that the judges deserve the benefit of the doubt, and I believe that greater transparency – explaining how the judging works – would support that.

I've had private exchanges with three contest entrants who swear the judges play favourites, and I've tried to talk them down. I mean, how important is this, really, and why are people so het up about it? But there is a feeling that the judging is not fair – and that's not fair to the judges!

So: we're never going to have a perfect system for judging, holding contests is important because it allows people to stretch themselves and gain greater exposure for their work, and yet, the judges are – at times – not being given the benefit of the doubt. I believe that greater transparency would help that. Nothing will fix it. Judging is, by its nature, imperfect, and people are always going to be have doubts about it. It is subjective, and it is also necessary.

My My 2 cents

An incredibly talented, but modest Polar Bear, often mischievous, but never malicious!

11 Apr 2021

Quote by RumpleForeskin
IMO, the five-point system is overkill here at Lush because the mods usually keep one and two level stories from being verified. I've always felt a three part scale with top to bottom being labeled something along the lines of (Very good -- Good -- Needs work) being both kinder and more helpful.

The bottom line, again IMO, is to get more helpful comments, reply to all the comments your story receives and give helpful comments whenever possible. Good luck.

Quote by sprite

good point, Bill, but i want to take it further.

three scores:

-what the fuck were you even thinking.
-okay, at least you tried.
-made me orgasm in my panties.

I agree that a 3-score system would be better.

My dad was a university professor teaching at the post-graduate level. He only gave three grades: A, B, and F.

A meant that you worked hard at the subject, and had demonstrated understanding of it.

B meant that you either worked hard and came close, or that you had demonstrated understanding without putting in the work. Either way, you should be doing better than you are.

F meant you were't trying hard enough, or you shouldn't be here in the first place.

If you'd made it to grad school, he said, no other grades were appropriate. There was no place for a "gentleman's C".

Lush isn't grad school, but I think it was Kimmi who said that a "5" has become a "Like". I call it "the friend's 5".

And while Bill's scoring system is probably more serious, I think Rachel's is more fucking fun – except I'd use "cum" instead of the more formal "orgasm"!

An incredibly talented, but modest Polar Bear, often mischievous, but never malicious!

11 Apr 2021

Quote by JamesLlewellyn
the process of judging should be transparent enough so that people know it's not biased

Is this transparent enough or does it need more detail?

https://forum.lushstories.com/yaf_postst67174_The-Competition-Judging-Process.aspx

Please browse my digital bookshelf. In this collection, you can find 125 full stories, 10 micro-stories, and 3 poems with the following features:

* 30 Editor's Picks, 82 Recommended Reads.
* 16 competition podium places, 11 other times in the top ten.
* 23 collaborations.
* A whole heap of often filthy, tense, hot sex.

11 Apr 2021

Quote by JamesLlewellyn

However, all of that said, the process of judging should be transparent enough so that people know it's not biased, and it's not just a popularity contest. There is so much hard work involved in judging that the judges deserve the benefit of the doubt, and I believe that greater transparency – explaining how the judging works – would support that.

Nicola has literally posted and stickied how it works. I'm not sure how much more transparent it could be.

Judges are a mixture of story verifiers and members with a good body of work. The full panel remains largely anonymous for obvious reasons. If you enter a competition, you don't judge that one.

Do you have any practical suggestions on what you think needs to be improved?

https://forum.lushstories.com/yaf_postst67174_The-Competition-Judging-Process.aspx

11 Apr 2021

Quote by WannabeWordsmith

Is this transparent enough or does it need more detail?

https://forum.lushstories.com/yaf_postst67174_The-Competition-Judging-Process.aspx

Quote by Jen
Do you have any practical suggestions on what you think needs to be improved?

https://forum.lushstories.com/yaf_postst67174_The-Competition-Judging-Process.aspx

Well-coordinated with near perfect synchronization at times. I give this pair a 5. clown

I have no issues with comp judging on here. I make the top 10 about as often as I would expect. And, really, I am now getting into the mindset of comps being mainly a way to get eyeballs. My comp stories do get more reads, scores, and comments during the comp period than regular stories do in their early period, even if they tend to go moribund after that. Holly was Naked and The French Guest kind of broke that, though, by being non-comp entries that nonetheless got good early readership. However, both had extenuating factors: the former was in a popular category ( ) and the latter got an RR.

11 Apr 2021

Quote by WannabeWordsmith

Is this transparent enough or does it need more detail?
https://forum.lushstories.com/yaf_postst67174_The-Competition-Judging-Process.aspx

Quote by Jen
Nicola has literally posted and stickied how it works. I'm not sure how much more transparent it could be.
Do you have any practical suggestions on what you think needs to be improved?

To WW and Jen, both – Yes, that is transparent enough, but it does need one more detail.

There should be a direct, bold link to this description in the header of the competition announcement. Most people (including me) do not know enough, or are too lazy to go hunting around the Forum to find this particular post in this particular thread. I don't actually spend much time in the Forum, other than at Rumple's bar, for instance.

So where the announcement has a red box with this text:

"All our standard story contest rules apply. All characters must be over the age of 16."

I would add to that:

"Judging is necessarily subjective, but we have made it as clear and as fair as we can manage. Here is a link describing how we judge competition entries:"
The Competition Judging Process

That will not end the griping about judging. That will never happen. But at least it would reduce the grounds for griping.

An incredibly talented, but modest Polar Bear, often mischievous, but never malicious!

11 Apr 2021

Quote by seeker4

Well-coordinated with near perfect synchronization at times. I give this pair a 5.

Lol. First time ever I've been more wordy than WordyMcWordyson himself laughing6

11 Apr 2021

I am going to low vote all of you!!!

Nic gave me permission.
Thankyou.

11 Apr 2021

There are several judges for these comps. That brings a wide spectrum of tastes, and points of view. It is a tough job, and the responsibility is taken very seriously and objectively. I have taken part in the process which has been easily described by Nicola, and is very transparent.

I take issue with anyone claiming that the judges play favorites. That sounds like sour grapes. But most of all, it is untrue.

In the past l've entered several comps finishing 2nd, 3rd, and several times in the top 10, but never 1st. I have always been 100% sure that the results were fair, honest, and right on. Objectively, l could see why the stories ahead of mine were better than mine.

Quite frankly, these comps are a good way to see where your skills stack up against the site's best. Then if you want to do better, you work on improving.

11 Apr 2021

Quote by WannabeWordsmith

Is this transparent enough or does it need more detail?

https://forum.lushstories.com/yaf_postst67174_The-Competition-Judging-Process.aspx

Thank you.

This thread was becoming more tiresome than I could bear.

11 Apr 2021

Just lightening the mood ...

I really want someone to comment, "What the fuck were you even thinking" on my next story. My son would think that was hilarious. And give me a '1'. It will humble me. Lfunny

11 Apr 2021

Quote by JamesLlewellyn

To WW and Jen, both – Yes, that is transparent enough, but it does need one more detail.

There should be a direct, bold link to this description in the header of the competition announcement. Most people (including me) do not know enough, or are too lazy to go hunting around the Forum to find this particular post in this particular thread. I don't actually spend much time in the Forum, other than at Rumple's bar, for instance.

So where the announcement has a red box with this text:

"All our standard story contest rules apply. All characters must be over the age of 16."

I would add to that:

"Judging is necessarily subjective, but we have made it as clear and as fair as we can manage. Here is a link describing how we judge competition entries:"
The Competition Judging Process

That will not end the griping about judging. That will never happen. But at least it would reduce the grounds for griping.

They have a saying my profession. Ignorance of Law is no excuse. As Buz said, the sore losers will always gripe. The moderators and judges do an awesome job. I find it distasteful when I read some members think there is some kind of conspiracy.

Meagan

11 Apr 2021

Quote by Meagananne1986

They have a saying my profession. Ignorance of Law is no excuse. As Buz said, the sore losers will always gripe. The moderators and judges do an awesome job. I find it distasteful when I read some members think there is some kind of conspiracy.

Not what I was saying, Meagan Anne. I was saying it might reduce some of the apparent rancor if the already very valuable thread describing how the judging is done were made more visible, with a link, for example, on the page where the competition is announced.

I absolutely agree that judging is hard, and the judges are not given enough credit – or the benefit of the doubt. I'm not trying to create a problem, but to help ameliorate one.

An incredibly talented, but modest Polar Bear, often mischievous, but never malicious!

Are you sure?