Giving Feedback

Quote by roccotool

the old 'hey, if you can't handle anonymous criticism on the internet...' defense is horseshit. That's just a (all too common) way for people to self-rationalize your own asshole behavior. Have some decorum, for god's sake.

Right on!

I will never, ever, agree with the whole "just being honest"/"free to say what I want"/"I'm anonymous so I don't care" bullshit. Don't embarrass, humiliate, insult, or degrade by using one of those cop-out excuses because I don't buy it and others don't either. So having a story on here automatically means you are open to any kind of criticism or abuse? No it doesn't. It demands respect, same as it does in real life. It's like walking up to a person with a disfigured face and making an "innocent" comment about it. "Well, I'm just being honest." No you're not. You're being an ass. Use tact and politeness, because you're not impressing anybody when you don't.

Ok, now I'll go sit down and cool off.

Quote by DBarclay
When aiming comment at me or anybody else ..please make it very clear ...we dom't want misunderstanding

Quote by roccotool
So having a story on here automatically means you are open to any kind of criticism or abuse? No it doesn't. It demands respect, same as it does in real life.... Use tact and politeness, because you're not impressing anybody when you don't.

Quote by Durrasch
I imagine you knew I was going to disagree with this, but it does not "demand respect." Respect is something that one should have to earn, especially when one is offering up something that they have created, presenting it as worthy of public consumption. If a story is shit, it does not "deserve respect". That is not to say that the author should be subjected to personal attacks or anything of the sort, but if something is shit, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying so.

The comparison to a physical disfigurement, for example, is horseshit. A physical deformity is not analagous to a talentless ass trying to pass themselves off as a writer. You may have noticed, for example, that if someone's difficulties appear to come from the fact that English is not their first language, I tend to let the language issues slide. That sort of thing, like your physical deformity, is a systemic issue that is beyond the control of the author involved. Shitty storytelling, horrible imagery, plotlessness, and pathetically flat characters are NOT the same sort of systemic issue, but are factors that CAN be controlled. If one is incapable of controlling those factors, or chooses not to control those factors, and chooses to post piss-poor stories just the same, then they open themselves up to whatever criticism may come their way.

I, for one, have never said and never would say anything in this or any other forum that I would not happily say to the person's face. People who are shitty writers dserve to be told so just as much as people who are good writers deserve praise. And if the praise can be made on the open comments page, then so should the criticism be.

Quote by Durrasch
if something is shit, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying so.

Quote by DBarclay
When aiming comment at me or anybody else ..please make it very clear ...we dom't want misunderstanding

Quote by DBarclay

Quote by lexylove

Quote by DBarclay
When aiming comment at me or anybody else ..please make it very clear ...we dom't want misunderstanding

guilty conscience?

I certainly don't have a conscience of any sort...

But perhaps you can point me to some of these bad comment you like to allude to ..

Quote by Elaine

Quote by DBarclay

Quote by Durrasch
I have a question that was prompted by but is unrelated to Monocle's thread on giving thanks.

What's the acceptable protocol here for telling someone a story is just bad? No offense to anyone, but it happens. Personally, if someone hates something I write, I'd want to hear it in full-on brutal honesty. Do most of you want to hear when someone has negative feedback?

I have been calling stories rubbish when they have been ....but I did begin to think a PM
might be better so I just offered my 3 basic rules by PM ..and some responded well,
and I re-edited their story for them...
a few ignored everything...and carried on with the rubbish

And one just said Fuck off ...

The best way ~ no idea ...

I can't speak for everyone but I don't like when a person tells me what to do. If you offer constructive criticism politely and don't expect the author to automatically do whatever you suggest, it's fine. The author does have the final say about changes that should be made and you shouldn't take it personally if the author doesn't incorporate those suggestions in their stories.

Quote by DBarclay
When aiming comment at me or anybody else ..please make it very clear ...we dom't want misunderstanding

Quote by Durrasch

Quote by roccotool
So having a story on here automatically means you are open to any kind of criticism or abuse? No it doesn't. It demands respect, same as it does in real life.... Use tact and politeness, because you're not impressing anybody when you don't.

I, for one, have never said and never would say anything in this or any other forum that I would not happily say to the person's face. People who are shitty writers dserve to be told so just as much as people who are good writers deserve praise. And if the praise can be made on the open comments page, then so should the criticism be.

Quote by techgoddess
Really? Who decides who is a shitty writer? Is it spelling errors or typos? Is it content that you don't care for? While I agree that one should be free to express one's opinion of a story, bashing it publicly seems a bit harsh. Since when did it become necessary for human beings to judge each other in such a manner? Many people simply like this site as a means to share their work. Doing so should not be considered an invitation for being judged and criticized. If one feels utterly compelled to share harsh criticism, doing so in private is better than showing a lack of consideration and class by publicly deeming someone a "shitty writer" simply because one thinks so.

Just my humble opinion.

Quote by nicola
You don't have to sugarcoat your replies Durrasch

Nice to see you Tech, I hope you're on the mend.

Quote by DBarclay
tut tut ..daft me ... I just remembered, all you whinger and whiner don't own this site.
Your opinion means nothing.. but I am enjoying them

Quote by Durrasch

Quote by techgoddess
Really? Who decides who is a shitty writer? Is it spelling errors or typos? Is it content that you don't care for? While I agree that one should be free to express one's opinion of a story, bashing it publicly seems a bit harsh. Since when did it become necessary for human beings to judge each other in such a manner? Many people simply like this site as a means to share their work. Doing so should not be considered an invitation for being judged and criticized. If one feels utterly compelled to share harsh criticism, doing so in private is better than showing a lack of consideration and class by publicly deeming someone a "shitty writer" simply because one thinks so.

Just my humble opinion.

Why, the reader, of course. Would you expect someone other than the reader to make comments based upon the reader's experience of the story? Are you attempting to suggest that there might be some objective measure of a story's worth? If you believe there is, do please elaborate.

And if the typos and spelling and grammar are scattered willy-nilly throughout so drastically that the flow of the story is seriously impeded, than it is a legitimate reason to render a story shitty... especially since most people posting here are writing in programs that have spell-checkers and grammar-checkers built in.

So, people should be free to express their opinion of a story, so long as the expression does not interfere too seriously with politicaly correct standards of constraint on dissent, is that your humble opinion?

Sharing one's work on this site should not be considered an invitation to be judged. Are you f**king serious? Have you looked at the layout of the pages? The emphasis placed upon rankings and ratings and comments? The signature-banners screaming out to read and vote? The frequency of posts related in some way to the issue of ranking and rating and feedback? The entire story posting section of this site is about being judged and rated.

It's not a lack of class or consideration to be harsh on someone's story if it's deserved. It's a sign of the absurd society in which we llive that praise may be heaped in public, but the criticism must be hidden from sight, lest the criticiser be deemed an inconsiderate ogre. And if you think that one typo makes me a shitty writer, you have every right to express that opinion publicly. The other readers can look at the rest of the words I have laid down in this forum and decide for themselves whether the omission of an "e" from "deserve" - or any other of the similar types of errors I occasionally make - impairs my ability to express myself in a coherent manner.

Quote by techgoddess

Quote by DBarclay
tut tut ..daft me ... I just remembered, all you whinger and whiner don't own this site.
Your opinion means nothing.. but I am enjoying them

Was that whingers and whiners perhaps? Just checking.

Quote by techgoddess
[, provided it is meant for the purpose of providing feedback and not to pounce on a writer who was brave enough to post a story.

Quote by Zafia

David why are your comments blank?.....

Quote by DBarclay

Quote by Zafia

David why are your comments blank?.....

Durrasch sound perfectly reasonable to me

Nicotine deprevation

My mood swings are huge

I give up ..you lot are so much up your own ass ...

Publicly insulting a story is a different matter. As one person pointed out, send a private message to the author. There are times that the criticism is incorrect but other readers may get swayed by them.

I would tend to agree with Ling. I would also rather a private message if you think something should be changed rather than saying it in public.

I can't speak for everyone but I don't like when a person tells me what to do. If you offer constructive criticism politely and don't expect the author to automatically do whatever you suggest, it's fine. The author does have the final say about changes that should be made and you shouldn't take it personally if the author doesn't incorporate those suggestions in their stories.

If someone does upset you with what they wrote, take a deep breath, realize that it's simply a comment and move on. Don't come into the forum and bitch about it. Don't cry to mommy (Nicola) and ask her to make the bad man stop. If it really upsets you so much that you just can't let go of it, then PM said person and continue the dialogue like reasonable people.

So having a story on here automatically means you are open to any kind of criticism or abuse? No it doesn't. It demands respect, same as it does in real life.

Point out what is unsatisfactory or should be improved on if you like, but the only reason to be mean, snarky, or overly-abrasive in your critique is if you simply enjoy doing so, only to hide behind your actions with a justification amounting to, "I have a right to tell you what I think, so you need to grow a thicker skin."

I am merely suggesting that criticism need not take the form of rude commentary. I think feedback is a marvelous thing, provided it is meant for the purpose of providing feedback and not to pounce on a writer who was brave enough to post a story.

Quote by DBarclay
And still full of it ...

You and your clique don't set site policy ...accept it ...

Quote by lexylove
[
to Everyone: If the idea of respectful plublic commenting and dialogue seems distasteful, then I don't know what further to say.

Quote by dbarclay
Hi Lex...still waiting to be pointed to these terrible comments being made...
for all this talk there must be 1000s

Quote by lexylove
That would serve zero good anyway, assuming this issue was really about 'you', which it really isn't. It's about keeping things friendly, constructive, and inviting for as many people as possible, now and in the future.