What's the right balance? Is a story line actually essential to a story and erotic in and of itself, or is it just an inconvenient (and optional) means of supporting an extended sex-scene?
For me, I find that the whole set-up to sex is more of a turn-on than the sex-scene itself. However, a lot of stories published on this site seem to want to get the "characters" naked and fucking in graphic detail as quickly as possible. And they seem to be quite successful in writing this way.
So what's your preference?
Don't believe everything that you read.
Unknown User
Well, if you read my stories, you'll see that I come down roughly the same as you. I like to develop and explore the characters and circumstances, not just describe the action because that's what I like in reading erotic stories. I find that "stroke stories" have their place but sex is sexier when you feel like it's real human beings, not just a bunch of body parts.
A lot of fine writers here will take issue with this, but I get quickly bored with standard exposition and character development (that is true of non-sexual stories as well). Internal monologues drive me crazy, because no one really thinks in a linear fashion, let alone in complete sentences. To me that is just as cookie-cutter and paint-by-numbers as a pure sex story.
I'd much rather a story start in mid-action, and then let characters show who they are by there actions and dialogue (especially dialogue, I am a sucker for good dialogue), rather than have the writer give me a biography. Similarly, I don't need exposition to set things up. Let me figure it out by what that characters are doing and saying.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is very important that the writer know their characters, the way they think, and the events leading up to the story. I just don't want them to tell me unless it is integral to the story, and there is no other way to show me.
I guess that I am one of the writers who has the view that Verbal mentioned, one different from his.
For me description to give the reader a sense of the time and place is important, as well as some idea about the characters. I hate what we generally call the laundry list for character description (e.g. 5'6", blonde, green eyes, 36C breasts and long legs, or some similar list for a male character including penis length) because I think it is lazy writing. I do like to include information about the characters as the story is told to paint a picture in the reader's mind. I might describe the room they are in or the meal they are eating, with the intention of appealing to and using all of the senses, not just turning people on with graphic connect the dots sex. Readers have remarked that I really take them into the story.
I think that either Verbal's way or mine can work. It really depends on the ability of the writer to convey their story in a meaningful manner.
Quote by Just_A_Guy_You_Know What's the right balance? Is a story line actually essential to a story and erotic in and of itself, or is it just an inconvenient (and optional) means of supporting an extended sex-scene?
For me, I find that the whole set-up to sex is more of a turn-on than the sex-scene itself. However, a lot of stories published on this site seem to want to get the "characters" naked and fucking in graphic detail as quickly as possible. And they seem to be quite successful in writing this way.
So what's your preference?
I tend to AT LEAST TRY to sketch my characters out FIRST so that, when they get to the uh-oh, you have some idea of who they are... (If you THINK about it, we all write THE SAME story here, so you need to PERSONALISE it in a way that makes the reader feel that they are reading something new...)
To offer a parallel, I watch quite a bit of on-line porn, but I don't like the professional, 'porn-star' stuff... (Blonde girl with fake tits fucks guy with large dick...) YAWN!!! A VOYEUR at heart, I need to know WHO they are and WHY they fuck... THEN it becomes interesting to WATCH...
Or READ indeed...
I don't go BIG (???) on descriptions, instead, I let my characters TALK and it is in THAT way the reader can decide what they look like... Obviously here, the sex is ESSENTIAL to The Story, but it is THE STORY that makes The Sex!!!
I think varying your approach works best. Some stories are successful because they slowly build up to a boiling point. It's alway good to build the characters, develop the plot and the action. But sometimes have some guts and do something different like dive right into the sex and make it work through your writing. Sometimes a story can be successful because there is more mystery to the characters.
Can you write sex? Have you ever had amazing, mind-blowing sex? If so, describe it. That can be a story in itself if you do it right. If you don't do it right, you'll flop big time. If you try that you need to make the reader hear, taste, smell and feel it. They need to sweat with the characters. That's actually not easy at all to do.
If you do the same thing over and over again, why write more than a handful of stories as they will get repetitive. If you've read two, you've read them all. Don't be boring, don't be tied to formulas, show some creativity and real thought.
Quote by Buz I think varying your approach works best. Some stories are successful because they slowly build up to a boiling point. It's alway good to build the characters, develop the plot and the action. But sometimes have some guts and do something different like dive right into the sex and make it work through your writing. Sometimes a story can be successful because there is more mystery to the characters.
Can you write sex? Have you ever had amazing, mind-blowing sex? If so, describe it. That can be a story in itself if you do it right. If you don't do it right, you'll flop big time. If you try that you need to make the reader hear, taste, smell and feel it. They need to sweat with the characters. That's actually not easy at all to do.
If you do the same thing over and over again, why write more than a handful of stories as they will get repetitive. If you've read two, you've read them all. Don't be boring, don't be tied to formulas, show some creativity and real thought.
I AGREE with all of this!!!
(WHY would I not; this guy is one of our FINEST as well as a FRIEND of mine...)
I THINK that ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I LOVE THIS PLACE is because it LETS us WRITE how WE LIKE!!! (Sometimes THAT HITS!!!) Not always...
But WRITERS WRITE!!! (And WRITERS never CHOOSE what hits!!!) READERS choose THAT!!! When IT HITS it's like a DRUG...
Many good points being made here.
Stephanie and Buz: mystery in the characters. Yes! When was the last time LeCarré let a reader in on what a character was thinking? We know what each hears and sees and says but never to my recollection what they're thinking. All show, no tell. Lots of mystery. To put it bluntly we are too kind to our readers. We do all the work. We leave nothing to their imaginations. I like the kind of writing that invites me to participate, if you will, by making me think, make assumptions, use guesswork.
principessa (that's a moniker that cries out for capitalization) Laundry list descriptions. I cringe. I weep. I scream in agony. I take to my bed for a 3 day protest sleep-in. Abhorrent things! Needless to say I stop reading immediately and wash my eyes out with lye.
Verbal: develop characters by what they do and say. That's what it's all about.
What can I add?
Yes, a story line is essential to a story. Without it it's just not a story. It's a bit of descriptive writing at best, OK (or not so OK) time wasters. Have their place. This is a land of fantasy, so sure there's room for time-wasters, but they're not stories. I also think that to be a story requires more than good character development and motivation for actions: there should be a bit of conflict that somehow gets resolved.
Quote by Ollie64 I also think that to be a story requires more than good character development and motivation for actions: there should be a bit of conflict that somehow gets resolved.
Completely agree. Not only are we too kind to our readers, but many of us are far too kind to our characters - we spoil them, giving them everything they want without having to work for it. To me, that tends to create a very dull story.
Quote by Buz If you do the same thing over and over again, why write more than a handful of stories as they will get repetitive."
But really, how many different ways can you write a sex scene? In the last story I wrote, I took my readers through the foreplay, and right to the point where the couple were about to get down and dirty, and just left it there. The reader can use their imagination to fill in the rest themselves. If I continued that story it risked becoming formulaic and boring.
Quote by stephanie (If you THINK about it, we all write THE SAME story here, so you need to PERSONALISE it in a way that makes the reader feel that they are reading something new...) ... I need to know WHO they are and WHY they fuck... THEN it becomes interesting to WATCH...
More or less. Being an erotic fiction site it's no surprise where all the stories end up. So, the surprising thing has to be how they get there. That's where we can put our own personal touch on things.
Quote by principessa I hate what we generally call the laundry list for character description (e.g. 5'6", blonde, green eyes, 36C breasts and long legs, or some similar list for a male character including penis length) because I think it is lazy writing.
I've been guilty of this, but I'm becoming more inclined to provide as skeletal a physical description as possible, and focus more on building character. The reader can fill in all the details about measurements in their imagination.
Quote by kiera There are lists here for what one wants to read..I find that helps...That way you wont end up reading stories that are not your cup of tea.
What list is there for stories that actually include a plot, complete with a bit of character development and a conflict to be resolved? Perhaps we could create a new category called "Stories Justin will enjoy." In the meantime, I'll keep browsing.
Quote by Ollie64 When was the last time LeCarré let a reader in on what a character was thinking? We know what each hears and sees and says but never to my recollection what they're thinking. All show, no tell. Lots of mystery. To put it bluntly we are too kind to our readers. We do all the work. We leave nothing to their imaginations. I like the kind of writing that invites me to participate, if you will, by making me think, make assumptions, use guesswork.
Well put. This is exactly what I look for in a story. And I love LeCarre, who is a master at it.
As far as description goes, I like to take just a few key elements and describe them. Only use details that help anchor the story somewhere specific. I generally don't care what color shirt someone is wearing.
I LOVE dialogue, especially in erotic stories, where much of the dialogue involves flirting and seduction and foreplay. I would rather the character tell me than the writer.
This is personal taste, but I like the sex to be pretty graphic, and straightforward. Not an "insert slot A into tab B" sort of generic description of sex, but neither do I want to read 20 different synonyms for pussy. I like a writer who isn't shy with detail.
What list is there for stories that actually include a plot, complete with a bit of character development and a conflict to be resolved? Perhaps we could create a new category called "Stories Justin will enjoy." In the meantime, I'll keep browsing.
I think it important to engage the reader emotionally. I think some detail to their lives and to who they are is important. Personally, the sex is pointless unless I can feel what they are supposed to be feeling. It's great if can be done through dialogue, but sometimes I'll write with narration to set the stage. My most popular stories were written this way.
To me, the ideas set forth above do make good guidelines. but what really matters is that the writing flows easily. That it isn't a struggle or a bore to read. I think most who fail in narration don't fail because it is narration, but rather because they get lost in details that do not matter to the story. One must stay focused and ensure that any background or set up is about the mental condition of the narrator, rather than a simple reading of what happened in the last few days or weeks. I write in first person as a confessional. As if I'm reliving for the reader. That approach seems to work quite well for me.
Good writing will keep a reader interested, regardless of how it's presented. I change my style constantly, but the core remains. Emotional connection makes the reader identify with the character and then the reader will feel a part of the story, regardless of what unfolds thereafter.
Unknown User
Everything has to make a sense. The reader needs to get a mental picture of the story. Details and dialogue are key
Balance and a great sexual finish helps the stories.
I believe you have to get the characters in place and understood before the sex happens. Therefore a story should be just that. How long would Lady Chatterlwys Lover be if it were only the sex that was written about.
Entre - main course - sweets. A story should be like a meal. Then coffee afterwards.
Many of you won't like my novels then. The sex is a part of the story, not the reason.
Anna and Sam, for instance, is about emotion and the destruction an illicit affair can create and sex does not appear in every chapter.
I think that people who are in the Ask Readers section of the site are probably a bit more interested in the story, the characters and the emotions leading up to everything than that of the general reader on this site might be. I say that because the responses I read on this thread differ greatly from the "feedback" I got from some folks when I asked them to look over some things I've written but haven't sent in yet. I've been told that I "don't get to the sex fast enough". I've got one in the works that I stuck in a masturbation scene near the beginning just to hold people off until the main course towards the end. But I think that's my limit. I need some character development and a purpose or else I can't get into the story myself as a writer. I'm just glad that there are some people that DO appreciate it when you take the time to set the scene and build the anticipation. I know I like that when I'm reading a story.
There was an episode of a sitcom I saw once (How I met your mother, maybe?) in which one character admits that for him to fantasize about women other than his wife, he has to kill off his wife in his fantasy, because he could never cheat on her. So she has to have died in a car crash or of some disease before the fantasy makes sense to him.
Although at some level that's rather weird, there's another level at which I completely get it. I don't really want to read, and especially not write, stories in which the plumber shows up and says, "I got a call someone needs their pipes cleaned?" to the naked girl who answers the door.
I like the set-up. In fact, I'd venture to guess that for many a fault in many of my stories is that the set-up is perhaps too long. But for me, I want to make sure that the sex "makes sense," even if it is a fantastic situation.
So, if we hear that the girl has been challenged to answer the door naked and is doing it on a dare, and we know exactly how she happens to be in that situation. And the friend who dared her did it because she knows that the plumber who is coming is really the guy she's fantasized about for years, and...
Well, then the story got a lot more interesting for me.
Quote by oceanrunner1974 There was an episode of a sitcom I saw once (How I met your mother, maybe?) in which one character admits that for him to fantasize about women other than his wife, he has to kill off his wife in his fantasy, because he could never cheat on her. So she has to have died in a car crash or of some disease before the fantasy makes sense to him.
Although at some level that's rather weird, there's another level at which I completely get it. I don't really want to read, and especially not write, stories in which the plumber shows up and says, "I got a call someone needs their pipes cleaned?" to the naked girl who answers the door.
I like the set-up. In fact, I'd venture to guess that for many a fault in many of my stories is that the set-up is perhaps too long. But for me, I want to make sure that the sex "makes sense," even if it is a fantastic situation.
So, if we hear that the girl has been challenged to answer the door naked and is doing it on a dare, and we know exactly how she happens to be in that situation. And the friend who dared her did it because she knows that the plumber who is coming is really the guy she's fantasized about for years, and...
Well, then the story got a lot more interesting for me.
This. I have no qualms writing 2500 words of set up. The idea is to make the reader care. To make them want to get together. Sure, I've written a few stories that were quick to the sex, but even in those I want the reader to know why. There is a reason most romance novels have lots of sex. Building a romantic setting, showing the longing, the need, all of that is conducive to great sex. I'm sure some prefer to just jump into the sex, but my work has been successful enough to make me think my formula works.
I will agree with several other people that have posted, it is all about the characters. I want a good story, first and maybe some sex second. I think that for some trying to find the right balance is an issue. I know for me it is. Granted I am new to all of this. I personally like multiple chapter stories, so you get to see how the characters have grown and evolved, or devolved.
As my readers know I am all about character and plot development! There has to be a reason for these two people (or whatever) are in this situation. While flash and quickie stories don't have much plot, still there has to be a reason for the sex. I like my readers to get to know and maybe even empathize with my characters, putting themselves in their place so they can understand their motives and needs.
A good story should draw the reader in, not just give him\her something to get off to!
If you only go by set formulas are you really a creative writer? Why can't sex help develop the characters? It all depends upon whether you have the knowledge and the ability to make it work. But I would advise that you not attempt it until you've developed a certain level of skill.
Writing is an art and should not always be limited to a cookie cutter template.
As far as how much sex, that can widely vary. The story can be great and have very little sex, but on an erotic story site, it should have sexual tension. Many of the best stories on this site do have lots of explicit sex though.
I once went out on a limb and wrote my longest Lush story that is mostly sex, vivid rough sex that goes on and on. The story did have character development and a storyline that led into the sex. I had no idea how it would be received. I worried it would be a big failure. It quickly became a Famous Story and was awarded an Editor's Pick yellow ribbon. So once you have written several stories and had some degree of success, why not get creative? If it doesn't work, you will have learned from your mistakes and can grow from there.
Quote by oceanrunner1974 There was an episode of a sitcom I saw once (How I met your mother, maybe?) in which one character admits that for him to fantasize about women other than his wife, he has to kill off his wife in his fantasy, because he could never cheat on her. So she has to have died in a car crash or of some disease before the fantasy makes sense to him.
Although at some level that's rather weird, there's another level at which I completely get it. I don't really want to read, and especially not write, stories in which the plumber shows up and says, "I got a call someone needs their pipes cleaned?" to the naked girl who answers the door.
I like the set-up. In fact, I'd venture to guess that for many a fault in many of my stories is that the set-up is perhaps too long. But for me, I want to make sure that the sex "makes sense," even if it is a fantastic situation.
So, if we hear that the girl has been challenged to answer the door naked and is doing it on a dare, and we know exactly how she happens to be in that situation. And the friend who dared her did it because she knows that the plumber who is coming is really the guy she's fantasized about for years, and...
Well, then the story got a lot more interesting for me.
Brilliantly put.
My latest story is a racy little piece about what happens when someone cute from work invites you over to watch Netflix and Chill.
I'm FLOATING around here tonight, just reading random threads...
THE ABOVE (and I'm TRULY not 'blowing smoke'...) reminds me WHY I continue to write here after quite a few years and indeed why I'm quite proud of (some) of what I do here... And indeed who I do it for...
LS IS A SEX SITE, a PORN SITE, an EROTICA site, call it how you wish... (But it's also a WRITING site...) Indeed, GIVEN WHAT WE DO I'm frequently amazed by how seriously people approach the work... (And all in VASTLY different ways!!! And THAT'S IMPORTANT!!!!)
But, considered in terms of PURE WRITING (no matter the subject...) I continue to learn from other writers here on an almost daily basis. It REALLY is a University here...
What keeps me coming (STOP IT!!!) here and writing here is that I know that I'm PROPERLY read! (Do You Know What I Mean???) Now, I'm not read by a LOT of people here! (That's fine!) I do know that the people who read me KNOW what they are reading... It gratifies me so much that they LIKE it!!! To be clear, there ARE things I've written here that I think are AT LEAST quite average... (Fuck it, they exist, let them stay out there!) There are OTHER THINGS I've done here that I'm REALLY proud of...
I think many writers (I am guilty...) MINE A CERTAIN SEAM that they know they do well... (I do, particularly in my verse, MELANCHOLIA very well... For my sins... That's a bit like admitting that I'm REALLY, REALLY good at shooting ORPHANS with a Sniper Rifle!!!) WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT??? But we do what we do and within reason here they let us!!!
What I DO KNOW is that every time I submit here I'm interested in what the rest of the site thinks... (And OF COURSE they don't always get it!!!) Even I don't get half of it!!!
But writers write... (That's what they do...) We can write HERE... (That makes us kinda LUCKY, I think...)
Quote by oceanrunner1974 There was an episode of a sitcom I saw once (How I met your mother, maybe?) in which one character admits that for him to fantasize about women other than his wife, he has to kill off his wife in his fantasy, because he could never cheat on her. So she has to have died in a car crash or of some disease before the fantasy makes sense to him.
Although at some level that's rather weird, there's another level at which I completely get it. I don't really want to read, and especially not write, stories in which the plumber shows up and says, "I got a call someone needs their pipes cleaned?" to the naked girl who answers the door.
I like the set-up. In fact, I'd venture to guess that for many a fault in many of my stories is that the set-up is perhaps too long. But for me, I want to make sure that the sex "makes sense," even if it is a fantastic situation.
So, if we hear that the girl has been challenged to answer the door naked and is doing it on a dare, and we know exactly how she happens to be in that situation. And the friend who dared her did it because she knows that the plumber who is coming is really the guy she's fantasized about for years, and...
Well, then the story got a lot more interesting for me.
i always answer the door naked when it's the plumber. we have a girl plumber, and she's hot.
You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
Quote by oceanrunner1974 I like the set-up. In fact, I'd venture to guess that for many a fault in many of my stories is that the set-up is perhaps too long. But for me, I want to make sure that the sex "makes sense," even if it is a fantastic situation.
So, if we hear that the girl has been challenged to answer the door naked and is doing it on a dare, and we know exactly how she happens to be in that situation. And the friend who dared her did it because she knows that the plumber who is coming is really the guy she's fantasized about for years, and...
Well, then the story got a lot more interesting for me.
Right. Not just developing character, but also creating a plausible situation (or at least the suspension of disbelief). Actually, Ocean, you're one of the authors I've really enjoyed reading consistently on this site. Jonathan is another. You both take your time to develop the story, but the plot doesn't meander. There's always a sense you're building towards a climax (so to speak), so I don't feel like you're wasting my time as a reader, and I'm willing to go along for the ride. I think that might be a problem with some of the longer stories, they get lost in details that aren't really relevant to the final pay-off and don't move the story along much. Pacing is really the key, but I think it takes practice as a writer to get it right.
A good story needs set-up. If all you are interested in is sex, then porn is for you. But honestly, after seeing enough porn, it becomes obviously formulaic. Always this thing happens, then that thing, then ... the guy cums on the girl. BORING!
I am always interested in the build-up to sex. Without context, it is not erotic anymore. A good story makes a huge difference.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open one's mouth and remove all doubt" - Mark Twain (or Lincoln, or Confucius, or...)
