Make or break conversation

How do you officially ask for an open marriage? I have been having the same hypothetical conversation with my wife for the last few years. I have been trying to communicate. She is in denial that there is a problem and refuses couples therapy. She has stopped individual therapy.

Lengthy background, from my perspective:

We have been together 24 years. We were both virgins at age 23. The first 8 years were good, sexually, but I had nothing to compare it to. Nothing experimental, plain vanilla. No anal, no oral beyond foreplay, no positions outside missionary, nothing outside the bedroom. (Read my story, A Comedy of Errors, for one of the few times in 24 years we tried “exotic” sex.)

During year 8, she became pregnant, which was a glorious miracle, because infertility treatments had failed earlier. Halfway through the pregnancy, a growth was found on her labia. It was vulvar cancer, caused by HPV. The doctor thought the pregnancy hormones had activated the dormant infection. 

After the delivery, a specialist removed the affected labia with clear margins, and she came home. Over the next 6 years, precancerous cells were found and removed three times. On the last recurrence, the local doctor said he couldn’t help any longer. So it was back to the specialist.

Ten years ago, she had an extensive recurrence of vulvar cancer and had all of her external genitalia removed. This included her remaining labia, clitoris, and skene’s gland. As you might imagine, she gets very little pleasure from sex anymore. We have to use lube even for foreplay. Her g-spot is intact, so she still gets feeling during intercourse, if we get that far. Usually that only happens when she is drunk, which was a plot point of the story I mentioned above.

I guess that after, essentially, 16 years of being the one begging for sex, I’m desperate enough to consider cheating. I feel like a selfish bastard for thinking about physically stepping out on my disabled wife. Before, it was a fantasy to help me get by, but it has become more real in the last month. There is a lot of anger and guilt boiling over. There is the cliche of staying for the child, but there is also concern for how my wife would cope on her own if we separated. Part of her disability is mental (such as lack of self-control in spending money), chronic pain, and autoimmune disorders, and I feel like it would be abandoning her.

As my therapist would say, things won’t get better unless something changes. The problem is that most of the changes I foresee involve walking through a minefield.

I'm not an expert but I'd advise thinking about what exactly you want and what you're prepared to trade or offer for that.

Specifically what are you asking your wife to agree to?

Is it just permission to fuck a specific other woman as in have a girlfriend, to semi swing in that both women are aware of the other and know what they're getting in to, a don't ask don't tell about affairs or do you want permission to pick up a stranger in a bar and fuck them?

The more specific you are about what you want and what you're prepared to offer in return the more emotionally honest you're being with your wife.

A friend of mine has a don't ask don't tell policy on affairs. They're both not allowed to do it in the family home or the car and never with someone their other half will meet in public. Get yourself tested,  get them tested and don't spawn a sprog.

Works for them.

If your wife is willing to discuss it,  have something to offer in return. If someone else is going to handle your sexual needs what are you going to give your wife that's above what you give now?

Less jewels and fancy dinners , more emotional care of her. Doing more together things so you're better able to support her emotionally.

For me I'd want to feel you were less angry and resentful,  more loving with me, maybe we go to events together or get dressed up to take in a show. That I'm allowing you to have your physical needs met so you're able to provide me with more love and empathy.

That's just me though.

I would say that if your wife is absolutely against the idea you may have to ask yourself how much deception you're prepared to engage in to get what you want. Some people get a kick out of the the secret nature of it all and others find the deception curdles the pleasure of the deed. They get a burst of release and then the self loathing kicks in and spoils the after glow.

You need to do what's right for you and what you're prepared to essentially live with.

Hope that helps.

Quote by Twisted_Skald

I'm not an expert but I'd advise thinking about what exactly you want and what you're prepared to trade or offer for that.

Specifically what are you asking your wife to agree to?

Is it just permission to fuck a specific other woman as in have a girlfriend, to semi swing in that both women are aware of the other and know what they're getting in to, a don't ask don't tell about affairs or do you want permission to pick up a stranger in a bar and fuck them?

The more specific you are about what you want and what you're prepared to offer in return the more emotionally honest you're being with your wife.

A friend of mine has a don't ask don't tell policy on affairs. They're both not allowed to do it in the family home or the car and never with someone their other half will meet in public. Get yourself tested,  get them tested and don't spawn a sprog.

Works for them.

If your wife is willing to discuss it,  have something to offer in return. If someone else is going to handle your sexual needs what are you going to give your wife that's above what you give now?

Less jewels and fancy dinners , more emotional care of her. Doing more together things so you're better able to support her emotionally.

For me I'd want to feel you were less angry and resentful,  more loving with me, maybe we go to events together or get dressed up to take in a show. That I'm allowing you to have your physical needs met so you're able to provide me with more love and empathy.

That's just me though.

I would say that if your wife is absolutely against the idea you may have to ask yourself how much deception you're prepared to engage in to get what you want. Some people get a kick out of the the secret nature of it all and others find the deception curdles the pleasure of the deed. They get a burst of release and then the self loathing kicks in and spoils the after glow.

You need to do what's right for you and what you're prepared to essentially live with.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for responding. You gave good advice that I hadn’t considered about being specific with what I’m looking for. I’d like to think that once my physical need and curiosity for variety was being met I would be more emotionally alive with my wife. Such as acknowledge how lucky I am to have such a great partner. 

I won’t lie about the idea of doing it in secret being exciting. But because of our home-based business and her physical disability, we are together 24/7. I have no outside groups or interests that take me out of the house. It would be impossible to sneak around and make up excuses. So if she refuses, I’m afraid an outright separation or divorce might happen. 

As to what I’m looking for, that would be discrete hookups. Whether that’s exploring, long term FWB, mistress, etc, I don’t know yet. I would prefer my wife not know or meet the woman, but she would be aware of each “date.” Definitely no random pickups, I’m not into bars and clubs. I’m an excruciatingly analytical person, so she would have to tick all the boxes of whatever we decide to do. 

Oh dear, that sounds all wrong to me, selfish even. You married for better or worse. How would you like it if your dick fell off and your wife said she needed another man to satisfy her? I like to look at things from both sides and I'm sorry if it upsets you. I'm only going by what you have said. I'd be very interested if hearing what your wife thinks. If you truly love her, look after her. If all you are doing is thinking about your needs, then she is probably better off without you.

Quote by verity100

Oh dear, that sounds all wrong to me, selfish even. You married for better or worse. How would you like it if your dick fell off and your wife said she needed another man to satisfy her? I like to look at things from both sides and I'm sorry if it upsets you. I'm only going by what you have said. I'd be very interested if hearing what your wife thinks. If you truly love her, look after her. If all you are doing is thinking about your needs, then she is probably better off without you.

Your attitude brings to mind an apocryphal story about Winston Churchill. A society woman is supposed to have said, “Winston, if you were my husband, I would put poison in your tea.” To which Churchill quips, “And if I were your husband, I would drink it!”

And if I were with a woman like you … Oh, wait, I’d never be with someone so judgmental and self-righteous. But what can you really expect from someone vainglorious enough to fancy themselves Mary Poppins? (“Practically perfect in every way!”) I’ve already been dealing with almost no intimacy for 10 years. You’re telling me I should willingly continue for another 30+ years? I’m not a priest, I don’t have some higher calling to celibacy.  

I do all the housework, all the yard work, manage our (my) business, pay all the bills, and manage our finances (including her disability and my daughter’s survivor’s benefits). She has no clue about our bills or bank accounts, because she doesn’t care. Frankly, she couldn’t keep track of the bills and payments on her own. 

As an example, she went shopping yesterday with a list to get about 5 items, and comes back with 64 items having spent over $500. I made the mistake of talking about how much we got paid for work we had done. So she spent 25% of it in one trip. Without asking if that money was budgeted for something else. I sometimes only find out about her spending by checking her credit card statements. And I can’t take away her credit cards because she’s not deemed incapable.

If I died tomorrow, she would be screwed because she doesn’t know the logins or passwords to any of our accounts. She doesn’t know where our important papers are located. We have no wills or powers of attorney because she won’t cooperate. She wouldn’t know how to maintain her application for disability benefits because she doesn’t care enough to ask. I have money in bank accounts that she can’t access to protect our family. I have to keep her from spending us into bankruptcy with her addictions, since we have already declared bankruptcy twice in 23 years. And most nights I go to bed alone for my troubles. We are together 24/7 and she doesn’t even cook anymore. 

We don’t kiss or hold hands. She brushes me away like I’m diseased. I had to make the arrangements to celebrate our 23rd wedding anniversary next weekend, including buying MY present. We will get her drunk (which is the only way she can be intimate) and try to have sex, but we’ve only been successful twice in the last six months.

I’m tired of being in loco parentis to my 48-year-old wife, and all I want is to relax and have some affection. I don’t want to leave her or divorce her, but my lack of an outlet is making me angry and frustrated. 

Quote by verity100

Oh dear, that sounds all wrong to me, selfish even. You married for better or worse. How would you like it if your dick fell off and your wife said she needed another man to satisfy her? I like to look at things from both sides and I'm sorry if it upsets you. I'm only going by what you have said. I'd be very interested if hearing what your wife thinks. If you truly love her, look after her. If all you are doing is thinking about your needs, then she is probably better off without you.

Why have an open marriage when you  can get a divorce and live the life that you clearly want to live. 

Looks to me that you are placing the blame on her. 

Any attempted conversation during sex other than the usual swearing, moaning and assorted noises.

You have to be honest with her,. Tell her you have sexual needs and you understand that they no fault of her own your needs are not being met. Reassure her you are not looking to run off but need her help in figuring out how to have your needs satisfied. Give her time to think about it and listen to her.