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MorganHawke
Over 90 days ago
Bisexual Female, 61
United States

Forum

Quote by DonnaCupcake

I don't think you have to write quite that quickly, I've known a couple professionals who don't quite make that, but you have to be productive. I just finished a novel which is in edits, in two months. And my first readers say it's good.


Having beta-readers is a fantastic way to keep your work interesting. Your first publishing house editor however, will change your world -- and I don't mean a line editor that only fixes grammar and typos. That experience changed everything for me, but most especially how I put my work on paper.

After that of course the problem is figuring out where to submit it, and it seems like that will take as much work as the writing.


Figuring out where to submit is easy.
-- 1) Find books that have the same type of content as your manuscript.
-- 2) Check who published those books that are like yours.
-- 3) Go to that publisher's website and Read their Submission Guidelines.
-- 3a) Make damned sure your manuscript follows those guidelines.
-- 4) Email a query letter ONLY to their website.
-- 5) Look for the next publisher that accepts the type of manuscripts that you wrote.
-- 6) Rinse and repeat until someone asks you to send a Partial; usually the first 4 chapters of your MS.
-- 7) Keep Going.

There's a rumor out there that says once you send a partial you should stop. That rumor is Bullshit. You don't need to stop until you have a CONTRACT.
Quote by Pandastar
Thank you for all the tips and advice. It's really helpful. I haven't written a story in over 30 years, so this really a first for. Much appreciated.

You're very welcome!
-- I like helping my fellow writers.
Quote by Twisted_Skald
That is the best essay I've seen explaining the difference between kink and fetish.
This is definitely going to go in the research bank when I start writing more fetish material.
Thank you for sharing this.

You're very welcome.

Quote by GrushaVashnadze

What wonderful advice from Morgan, which I have only recently discovered - but which, I am happy to say, chimes entirely with my own thoughts when I wrote my smoking fetish story ... The smoking fetish is a bit niche these days - but my experience of it completely chimes with Morgan's advice. Thank you, Morgan, for crystallising these thoughts so cogently. I hope that in my story I have managed, in some way, to "tell the Truth".

You're welcome, I'm glad you liked the article.
-- You'll know if you got your fetish story right is when someone with a smoking fetish comments on your story and tells you so.
Quote by LakeShoreLimited
Fortunately, as writers, we don't have millions of dollars on the line. And some of the best writers of all time broke the formulas and set their own rules.

They did indeed -- after decades of trial and error of figuring out how those molds worked, before attempting to break them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote by PervyStoryteller
I disagree with the assumption nestling in the question.

Tell that to the people who keep asking me that question. LOL!

Quote by PervyStoryteller
What I would say is that you can't "make" your stories popular, they "become" popular if they appeal to enough people.

This is where I disagree. You can make your stories more popular specifically by using characters, settings, and situations that appeal to a broader range of people.

Quote by PervyStoryteller
That's not to say that you can't do things to increase the visibility of your stories if you have the time, inclination and a flair for self-promotion, but ultimately leading a horse to water doesn't guarantee it will drink.

Um... Visibility is all well and fine, but that wasn't how my stories became popular. They became popular because they appealed to one of the largest reading audiences out there: Women over 30 who preferred Adult Content in their pulp fiction.

Quote by PervyStoryteller
It's clear from the broader culture that incredibly popular stuff often comes about by a happy accident.

I'm afraid I am going to have to strongly disagree here. "Incredibly popular stuff" happens through 1) fulfillment of a Need, and 2) extensive Marketing Research -- which is what this whole essay is about; how to do that marking research.

For example, the entire genre of Erotic Romance happened because an enormous and untapped readership of adult women wanted Adult pulp fiction; fully plotted out adventures, sci-fi, gothics, and fantasy stories with Adult characters in Adult situations. IE: having sex during their adventures.

In short: Erotic Romance's popularity happened because it filled a Need for a type of story only a few people were writing at the time.

My stories' popularity happened because I did the market research to find out exactly what type of Pulp Fiction my readers wanted adult content in, and which pulp fiction characters they wanted to see participating in that adult content.

Side note: This research was how I learned that my readers absolutely loathed doormat nice girls. They wanted heroines that matched and challenged their heroes, not...simply gave in to them.

Quote by PervyStoryteller
It's entirely possible that you can increase the number of views by writing stories that conform to what is already popular.

Which is, in fact, the point of this essay.

Quote by PervyStoryteller
That's grand for you if your own tastes and predilections do conform in that direction, but if they don't, you're not likely to create a very convincing or readable story.

Sadly, this VERY TRUE.

Quote by PervyStoryteller
By my estimation the easiest way to get clicks is to write about assorted relatives getting it on with each other, but if, as I do, you find that kind of thing utterly mystifying, how would you ever be able to write such a story?

You clearly haven't been paying attention, darlin'! Vampires and other supernatural lovers stories will always be more popular than stories. LOL!

Quote by PervyStoryteller
Ultimately you just have to write a story to the best of your ability, accept that you can't please all of the people all of the time, and be grateful for the people who do read and appreciate what you've written.

This is quite true as well, however it never hurts to try broadening your horizons by 'borrowing a few settings and character types from your favorite movies.
Quote by GrushaVashnadze


You are very kind, Morgan. But I think it's rather as you say about writing: a bit of talent is just the beginning. Then there's the practice, determination, self-analysis, self-promotion - and good luck is also handy. I think all the creative arts work in similar ways. I am just as in awe at your success - and your brilliance - as a writer!

Thank you, sweetie!
-- As you said; Talent is a great place to begin, but it will only get you so far. The next step is figuring out How you did it, then taking the time to acquire the skills to ensure you can repeat it reliably.

As far as I'm concerned,

Talent is when you get it right By Accident.
Skill is when you get it right On Purpose.
Quote by GrushaVashnadze


Agree with everything you say, Morgan, except this. I am a musician, and work and and off in theatre / performing arts. There is a tiny minority of famous rich performers - but most are underpaid, overworked and unacknowledged. I am fortunate to be able to scrape a living, by concentrating on a couple of niche markets. But most of us are, like writers, unknown and poor. Conclusion: if you want money and fame, don't become an actor or a singer!


Well...! There goes that avenue to fame and money too, I guess.
-- You must be quite talented to actually make a living off your skills. Bravo!
Quote by LakeShoreLimited
In any creative endeavor, a day job is likely a necessity - except for those at the very top. The odds of becoming even a moderately successful actor or singer are very much stacked against you. It's also, unless you're maybe a Helen Mirren, very much a young person's game. Probably the best bet for acting is to be a character actor, not shoot for stardom. Stardom is fleeting; remember Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard?


EXACTLY!
-- Odd factoid: Did you know that a Music company contract and one from a Book publisher, (Mills & Boon/Harlequin and Dorchester's in particular,) are damned near identical? Namely, in the percentage of the 'net' the creator receives, and in the fine print.
Quote by browncoffee
but... but... i want fame and moneeeeyyy.

If you want money and fame, be an actor or a singer.

Writing only makes you money if you can output one 'good' novel (100k word minimum,) every 4 to six months for years.
Quote by crrcrawford
Thanks for the helpful post MorganHawke.

You're welcome. I'm glad you liked it.

Quote by crrcrawford
Is your list an example of the types of things to be thinking about in most popular stories?

YES.

Quote by crrcrawford
Or have you actually done this research and listed the most popular in each category by descending order?

I have done my research, including actual polls on several story sites to get a nice clear view of what the readers on those sites prefer as characters, plot situations, and sex scenes -- but that list is NOT in this article.
Looking for Ideas?
Try my Erotic Story Generator game
It's FREE!



The Erotic Story Generator
M/M - M/F - F/F


R-18!: Partial Nudity, Suggestive Imagery & Adult Language.


Anyone familiar with Seventh Sanctum's generators will recognize the "list generated" style immediately. Basically, you click a button and a story happens. What's different about mine isn't merely the the way the words actually fit together to make a coherent story, but the sheer magnitude of the content used to make One story.

Each story generates from Eleven lists -- with over 50 items per list:

2 Character lists
2 Character description lists
2 locations lists
2 Smut/Action lists
2 Locations lists
1 Conclusion list (the story's End.)

Plus there's Music, and Graphics. However it does use Adult language!!!

It's free to download AND free to use! Seriously, if the generator provides inspiration USE IT! In fact, that's exactly why I made it, to help erotic writers come up with plot-based Adult story ideas.

If you do download it, let me know if you like it.

Download from Mediafire
-- Click on file to download. 45mb

To begin, simply Select your Genre.



To make a New Story appear, hit your Space Bar
or click with your mouse.



You can Change Genre's at any time
by selecting what you like from the Menu on the Bottom-Left.



Note: The stories in these screen shots contain the least amount of adult content I could find. You wouldn't believe how many times I had to click through the stories to get them!




The Bookmark in the top-right gives you direct access to the Save screen and Navigation.








I hope you enjoy the stories!
Quote by Verbal
This is great advice, really specific and on point. Wish I had read this when I was writing erotica!

What? Does this mean you've stopped writing erotica?!
Anyway... I'm gad you liked my little essay.
Quote by nicola

Brilliant piece.
Great to see you back Morgan!

Thank you!
-- If life permits, I plan on being around a lot more! (Missed you! ?)

Quote by TangerineSky

My mind = ?
Love this.

Thank you! I hope it proves helpful. ?
Writing Fetish Fiction


-----Original Message-----
"Could you do a guide on how to make a decent PWP (porn without plot) revolving around fetishes with things like 'Add detail,' and 'Don't make it choppy?' -- Furry Fan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What makes Fetish fiction unique from any other kind of fiction?


Actually, this same question can be applied to any genre of fiction. What makes ANY genre of fiction unique from any other?

The DETAILS or more specifically, what is being detailed.


~ In a Romance, the Drama is detailed.
~ In a Mystery, the Puzzle, or rather the clues to the puzzle are detailed.
~ In a Sci-Fi, the underlying Theory or Technology is detailed.
~ In Erotica, the Sex is detailed.
~ In Pulp Fiction, the Adventure is detailed.
~ In Fetish Fiction, the featured FETISH is detailed.


Okay, that seems rather simple -- until you realize that not only does the key element to each genre need to be detailed, it needs to turn the PLOT too! That key element must not only be there and detailed, it must be what makes your story HAPPEN.

Why?

To forward any story's plot you need Dramatic Tension.
-- If all the dramatic tension in your Fetish story comes from somewhere OTHER than the Fetish scenes, then the Fetish scenes aren't necessary to tell the story. If the Fetish scenes aren't necessary to tell the story then you're NOT writing FETISH fiction, you're writing whatever else is turning your plot.

In fact, if the Fetish scenes aren't necessary to tell the story then they don’t belong in the story. ANYTHING that isn’t necessary to tell the story doesn’t belong in the story!

Memorize this:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it CAN be pulled out - it SHOULD be pulled out.


It's the basic law of fiction in any genre.

Azimov codified it for Science Fiction:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you can remove the Science from the Science Fiction and still have a viable story in another genre - you did it WRONG!"

(Keep in mind that he does not consider space operas like Star Wars and Star Trek to be science fiction. He considers them high-tech Westerns.)

Edo Von Belkom said it in his book “Writing Erotica”:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you can remove the Sex from the Erotica and still have a viable story in another genre - you did it WRONG!"


For Fetish Fiction this means:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you can remove the FETISH from the Fetish Fiction and still have a viable story in another genre - you did it WRONG!"


In ANY genre of fiction, that genre’s main element MUST drive the plot to BE that genre.

~ In Romance - The Relationship drives the plot.
~ In Mystery - Unanswered Questions drive the plot.
~ In Science Fiction - Scientific Ideas and/or Technology drives the plot.
~ In Fantasy - Magic drives the plot.
~ In Historical Fiction - Historical Figures or Events drive the plot.
~ In Paranormals - Paranormal Creatures or situations drive the plot.
~ In Erotica - Sex drives the plot.


In Fetish Fiction -- The FETISH drives the plot.


So, how do you make your Fetish drive the plot?

HOLD IT right there!
-- Before we go any further, make sure you know WHAT you're writing! Are you writing Fetish fiction or Kink fiction?


Fetish ISN'T Kink.


A Kink is something that makes sex exciting, also known as Slap & Tickle. No matter how many whips and chains are used, no matter how much blood is spilled carving your name into someone's back, Kink is a form of sexual Play, pure and simple.

A Fetish ISN'T Play.

A Fetish is a very personal, very individual, and a very private APPETITE. Fetishes are something one NEEDS like food, water, or air to breathe -- to get off, and that 'getting off' ISN'T always Sexual. When a Fetishist has access to what gratifies their needs, they can reach fulfillment without orgasm because their need is more than merely sexual. According to many Fetishists that I know personally, fulfillment grants a euphoria they swear is better than orgasm.

A sexual sadist with a Fetish for screams that plays Slap & Tickle with a lover isn't doing it because they want to fuck their lover. They're playing Slap & Tickle to feed their true hunger. Once they get the screams they're after, they may not even want to fuck at all because they HAD their gratification already - the screams.

A sexual sadist with a Kink for screams DOES want to fuck the screamer, preferably WHILE they're screaming.

Someone with a Fetish for women's feet, or boots, or uniforms, or bondage gear doesn't need to have sex with those in such garb. Observing the wearer, touching the objects, smelling the material, hearing the sounds associated with them, and sometimes even tasting them is more than enough to completely satisfy a Fetishist. THIS is why detail is so vitally important in Fetish Fiction.

On the other hand, someone with a Kink for women's feet, or boots, or uniforms, or leather bondage gear DOES want to fuck those in such garb.

In short:
~ A Kink is when you use a feather to cum.
~ A Fetish is when Touching the feather will make you cum.


Whether you are writing Fetish, or Kink, make sure you Label your story properly!
-- This way, the readers seeking your particular kind of story can find you and appreciate what you've written! Okay, back to the lecture...

-- So, how do you make your Fetish (or Kink) drive the plot?


Making the Fetish MATTER!
Show something. Prove something. Make something Happen
.


Show something:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What can a Fetish show? It should at the very least reveal something about the base personality of the character that is focused on it: tender, sweet, attention to detail, aggressive, controlling, power-hungry, humorous, serious…

Prove something:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fetish scenes can prove domination, or submission, but rarely does a scene like that involve a true Fetish. Fetishes are about HUNGERS and such needs make excellent metaphors! What does your character's Need say about life, or love, or hate, or anger, or devotion?

Make something Happen:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This one is the easiest of all. How can you're character's drive to fulfill their Fetish get them into deep trouble -- or out of it?


WRITING Fetishes
DETAIL ~ DETAIL ~ DETAIL


The rest of your story can be a bare bones sketch if you like, but the Fetish MUST be executed in exquisite loving detail. Your story is there to feed a NEED, so ALL the senses must come into play: Sight, Scent, Sound, Sensation, and Flavor.

Your story can be so simple that the characters don't even have names. However, where the Fetish comes into play, every thought, feeling, and sensation that focuses on that fetish MUST be written in loving detail.

What it looks like, what it sounds like, what it smells like, what it feels like, what it tastes like... What does it do? How does it affect your characters? How does it make them feel physically, emotionally, and possibly spiritually? Do they like the fetish? Hate it? Wish it would go away? Try to fight it? Revel in it? Try to convert others into liking it too?


All-righty then... Here's the hardest part of writing Fetish Fiction:

How do you plan to END your Fetish story?


Where will this Fetish take your main character? What will become of them because of this Fetish? Will it make their lives better -- or worse? Will they find a safe outlet to satisfy their Fetish, or make a terrible error in judgment that destroys them? Do you want a happy ending, or a tragic one?


REALITY CHECK! ~ There is NO CURE for a Fetish.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Fetish isn't something that goes away. A Fetish is NOT an addiction -- though a Kink can be! Fetishes are rooted deep in the psyche and while a shrink might be able to find the cause, there is No Cure.

The only treatment is to find a safe outlet that feeds the need. The only other options are becoming a Victim or a Predator.

Make sure you understand this BEFORE you write your ending. Those of us that have fetishes really appreciate it when someone actually tells the Truth.


In Conclusion:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Whether you're writing serious Fetish Fiction or merely Kink Fiction, the key to writing either one is Detail and Focus. However, what makes it satisfying is how you conclude your tale.
Quote by colin123
I wish I knew why my stories are popular but I really don't. I base my stories on true events and seem to have a lot of avid readers.


That's a pity.
-- If you can't figure out what makes your stories popular, then you're going to have great difficulty repeating that results with any real regularity. This will prove especially problematic if you decide to write in a genre that isn't erotica.
Quote by CharlotteRusse1
I love Orson SC! I'm going to download his books and read them on vacation next week. Thanks!CR


Orson Scott Card ROCKS!
Quote by daviddownunder
Yes, Characters and Viewpoint is one of a handful of favourites references that I keep going back to.

Me too!

Quote by daviddownunder
I see MorganHawke has one or two on "scenes" that I must check out.

It's an excellent book about writing in Chronological Order, (Action THEN Reaction.) Not just the paragraphs, but in the sentence itself. I only wish I'd read it BEFORE I learned it the hard way.

Quote by daviddownunder
Another favourite of mine on that theme is Novelists Essential Guide to Crafting Scenes by Raymond Obstfeld.

Oooooo! Sounds like something I'd really like!

Quote by daviddownunder
Some good stuff in this thread.

I agree!
Quote by CharlotteRusse1
...Exceptional American sex hangup.


Tell me about it. I've been fighting it all my life.
Quote by nicola
You should read her stories, you'd like her even more. She's evil at scrabble too.


You have the coolest friends. Really.
Quote by smiler77
...The small minded that aren't really among us merely alongside us, can screw themselves and wank over the Sharon Stone clip for eternity.


ROFLMAO! I like you!
Quote by GallagherWitt
GAWD that stuff drives me nuts. >.< Sex is an enormous part of the human condition, and acting like we shouldn't write about it is absurd. Especially when most of the people who spout all that crap have no problem at all with violence. ... And don't even get me started on people who think smut is "well, it's okay, I guess", but are horrified -- HORRIFIED I SAY! -- about gay erotica. ... Great post, Morgan, as always.


Why is it that murder is just fine, in music, on TV, in the movies... while making love is not?
-- That's what I'd like to know.
Quote by GallagherWitt
GAWD that stuff drives me nuts. >.< Sex is an enormous part of the human condition, and acting like we shouldn't write about it is absurd. Especially when most of the people who spout all that crap have no problem at all with violence. ... And don't even get me started on people who think smut is "well, it's okay, I guess", but are horrified -- HORRIFIED I SAY! -- about gay erotica. ... Great post, Morgan, as always.


Why is it that murder is just fine, in music, on TV, in the movies... while making love is not?
-- That's what I'd like to know.
Quote by stephanie
Quote by MorganHawke
"If you can take the sex out of the Erotica and still have a viable story -- you did it WRONG."


Totally take this point. Recently shelved a story called "Blue On Black" where an older white detective is seduced by a young black woman... Only problem was, after about 3,500 words of back story my characters were nowhere near to doing the deed. It was interesting stuff, but it wasn't Lush Stories.

Nice story, but not what I wanted to write.

xx SF


An easy way to get around that is by Writing the Sex Scene first, then write the story around it.
Quote by Jingle
thesaurus.com <-- my best friend when I'm sitting at the computer

dictionary.com <-- is it sad I use this too? lol

Would a printed thesaurus be better? I've never actually held the real thing in my hand and looked at it, so I've got nothing to compare the electronic version to.


Those are very good sites, but YES. A printed Thesaurus would be MUCH better.
-- My print thesaurus has over 957 pages with 20,000 main entries or headwords, which generates over 500,000 synonyms. Your site doesn't even come close to that many words and their synonyms available -- and my book is over 10 years old.

Seriously. Go to the bookstore, find a thesaurus, open it to a random page, and LOOK at how many synonyms are available per word then compare it to the site's entries. Thesaurus.com is only fit for a child in comparison.
Quote by LadySharon
I have Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus in storage. I want to get the writing erotica book relatively soon from my best friend Amazon.com


That book, Writing Erotica, is where I learned the rule:
"If you can take the sex out of the Erotica and still have a viable story -- you did it WRONG."
Best thing that ever happened to my writing.
Quote by DirtyMartini
I have Roget's Thesaurus somewhere...not sure if it's the 21st Century one though. Does it matter what century it's from?


As long as it's not from the 19th century (the 1800's,) I guess you're good. smile The point is, every writer should have a Thesaurus to keep from using the same words over and over in their stories.
Quote by nicola
What a horrible post title. Caught my attention!


I'm evil. smile
-- This is actually a surprisingly common accusation, especially among those of us that actually use our Names on our work.
Quote by lafayettemister
Morgan... you self loathing, low self esteem, puny minded, unoriginal, second rate author of second rate material!! How dare you question the status quo and the things that "They" say. You must have had a terrible childhood, raised by hippie wolves to write about the things you do. Anyone who writes about erotica has some serious mental issues! Didn't you get the memo?

ROFLMAO!

Quote by lafayettemister
...Screw the high and mighty that say that crap. It's only jealousy. Prudes are often the ones that have the most "perverted" desires in their head, but they're just to afraid to give it a try.

Abso-flogging-lutely!

Quote by lafayettemister
You should keep a couple butt plugs handy. When some other moron says something like this to you, hand him/her the buttplug and say something like... "Shove it up your ass"... or something else entirely more creative. After all, you are a smut writer!

Few people have the courage to approach me directly to my face about what I write. Hate-mail however... But then, that's what the DELETE button is for!