I didn't know where else to put this, so I came to the Tank. You all know I can be wordy but I'll try my best to be as short as possible.
I have a friend I met online several years ago. Over the years she and I have become close friends and confidants. We are not in a sexual relationship.
She grew up in a religious family/household and her grandfather was a preacher. Either of some non-denominational church or baptist, I forget which one. In high school, she got pregnant. Her grandfather forced her to put the child up for adoption and then stand before the congregation and confess her sins. As you can imagine, this has left a lasting impact on her.
When she and I became friends, I knew she was married. To a not-so-nice guy. She'd fallen out of love and he was not ready to move on. He is extremely jealous and possessive of her (even though HE is the one that wanted them to swing. he got off on her fucking another dude while he was there.. like she was his possession to share.. she hated it and thankfully, that phase passed) and he basically stalked her. He works with computers and bugged her phone. He installed a tracking device in her car. He forbade her from working.
He is often verbally and psychologically abusive, but rarely physically. If ever... but once.. we'll get to it. Once he found her in a car with her bf. That night, he grabbed her up, took her phone and keys, forced her into a car and dropped her off at a hotel. Somehow, the next day, she made it home. That's happened more than once.
Another time, after some blow up or another, he got really high on something. I dont' recall what. Taht night, he was out of his mind. He forced himself upon her, and while she didn't resist, she was fearful of him. He did his thing and then she balled up in bed when he fell asleep. So, basically he her even though she won't admit this to herself. Has said many times to me that he'd "never physically hurt me" and that night "he didnt' know what he was doing".
After a long time, a couple years, she finally mustered the courage and just enough money to leave him. I should mention, during the time she and I spoke, she became involved with an old bf, whom she still loved. He was also married but in the process of separation/divorce. She got into gov. housing and found a full time job and a night/part time job. She has seen a therapist for several years, so she was always working on her mental health.
Her ex hates her bf and he has tried to sabotage his career as a police officer. Once out of the house, her ex, who never did much with their children (that was her department) he became attentive to them and convicned them that she was a horrible person. And, that her bf was worse. Like, child abuse type worse. They refused to visit her and made an ultimatum. Him or them. (you can bet your ass this is all manipulation from her hubby)
Sadly, one day she took too much medication (intentionally or not, i think not but..) or the wrong mix, and she lost control. Her bf entered her apartment to find her holding a gun (the one he'd given her for protection) aimed at her chest. He got the situation under control. Somehow some kind of way, with good intentions, he took her phone and replied to her kids texts. They figured it out.. yadda yadda yadda.. hubby got involved and had her sent to a hospital where she stayed for a couple weeks. Once she was released, she went back home. Home with her hubby and her kids. Not sharing a room or bed with hubby, but there. Again under his roof and control.
She's been there for a few weeks now and was about to return to her apartment. He has blocked that move. He says that if she goes back to that apartment or even a new/different one, her bf will be able to visit. And he will not allow that. If she goes, he'll prohibit their kids (and one of them has toddlers) and grandkids from visiting AND he'll file papers revoking her parental rights with her recent mental breakdown as proof. So, she's stuck. Can't leave. She's accepted she can't be with bf anymore. That just isn't in the cards.
She will be returning to work soon and she will still have her own bank account, the one she started when she first left home. I don't know how long that'll last. He will slowly begin regaining more and more control over her. Eventually, he'll gain access to her money and leave her just enough to pay for gas and personal items. But, not enough to save for the future (when her kids turn 18 she plans to leave.. but you know about the best laid plans..). Then he's going to try to keep her from going to work and/or sabotage her at work. By the time the kids are gone to college, he'll have her completely dependent on him again.
So much for being short.. but I felt I had to give a solid view into her life. Psychological abuse is so much harder to deal with/prove.
I ask you... what can she do to help her situation? I've mentioned for a while that she needs to document anythign his says or does. Since he isn't physically violent, there's never any bruises or broken dishes/walls/furniture for her to photograph and document. She needs to screenshot and save any texts that are abusive or threatening or manipulative. But, it'll take alot of those to show a commonality?
I've mentioned she needs to hide a copy of her car key someplace she can access it, in case he throws her out again. And, I'll suggest a prepaid Visa with $100 or so on it, in case she's dumped at a hotel again. Maybe hide it in her phone case or anywhere she can grab it in the heat of the moment? Fuck, I don't know. She has an attorney but hasn't been able to pay the full retainer, so the lawyer hasn't been much help. And now that's she's back home, it'll be hard for her to get away to see any atty. I can't report him to the police because they already know of the affair and her hubby will claim her bf is the one reporting him and that'll complicate things even more. I could get her to call a hotline, but unless she's ready to report him on her own, there's not much that can be done with that. With the added threat of losing her kids, she won't jeopardize that.
Any advice you could give would be helpful. Very few in her life know the whole situation and she has little support. Even her folks want her to stay married and be "happy" with her hubby. My involvement and help is almost exclusively email/online. My own personal status makes it impossible for me to help in person.. and my presence in her life would further enrage her hubby. She's in no immediate danger right now, but the slow process to gain control of her is back in full swing. I say we have 2.5 years to save and plan for her exit. How can we make that transition go better than worse?
Sorry, to be so damn long winded but I felt this couldn't be expressed in a couple paragraphs. This woman's life and well being is on the line.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, use it to wax my truck.
In my younger and dumber days I went through a bunch of those. I'd find them practically laying in the dirt, pick them up, dust them off, dry their tears, get them on an even keel, and watch them run right back to their abuser. Some women, and some men, are drawn to people who are down right nasty to them. I still don't understand the compulsion but I've seen it first hand and can tell you it is very real.
I picked up two things in your post that need to be recognized and dealt with. First, he will continue to use every bit of influence he has or can acquire to manipulate her. The children are no exception. Second, its common for abusers of that type to need to increase their level of abuse over time. She needs to break off contact with him yesterday if not sooner. The idea that she and the children will be safe until the children turn 18 is a false assumption. She is in physical danger right now. There is no way to predict when the psychological abuse will become physical abuse but odds are that it will.
But the bottom line is this. An old joke asks how many psychiatrists it takes to change a light bulb. The punch line is it only takes one, but the light bulb has to want to change.
Until your light bulb wants to change, until she recognizes that her behavior, while getting her the empathy and attention she craves from others, is in fact destructive, and resolves to make some drastic changes, there isn't a God damned thing you can do.
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I really hate having to agree with Seax, but he's right. the only thing you can do is give her advice. you can't make her follow it. she needs to take control of the situation and of her life. she needs to report this stuff, whether it's physical or not. she needs to bring the authorities in. she needs to find a lawyer who will do the work regardless of her money situation. you can support her emotionally if she decides to fight back, but you can't make her fight back.
i hate having to say all of that, but i've been there myself. i let it happen to me up until a point, and then i found a way out - there weren't kids involved, which made it easier, but it still wasn't easy. in the end, it was my choice and i took control, best i could. unless she has family that is willing to step in for her or she's willing to file a criminal report and get the authorities involved or simply get out, she's stuck. btw, my advice to her. get social services involved. trust that they've seen this situation enough to know that she's being abused, that he's a danger to her and the kids, that he's unfit. it's a hard roll of the dice, but it's just going to keep getting worse unless she puts a stop to it - the sooner the better.
one more thing. he's not physically hurt her. yet. he will. she can use that when he does. if she's really desperate, she can push him to that point. of course, the ramifications of doing that are the stuff of nightmares.
i really hate writing this post, btw. it's a harsh lesson. just know this. YOU can't do anything to "fix" this. only she can.
best of luck.
ps. i will not suggest that she puts a bullet in his head one night while he's sleeping, because it would be murder and getting off with a self-defense ruling is tricky. that said, i did think it. it's something that goes through my head every time this situation arises and i would never judge anyone who did. *shrugs*
You can’t truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of violence. If you’re not capable of violence, you’re not peaceful. You’re harmless.
It saddens me to also have to agree with the above replies. ?
You have given her good advice and I would recommend also that she find a good counselling service that is trained in the area of domestic abuse and substance abuse , hopefully this will help her understand her situation and help to instil some much needed self worth and confidence.
But I've also helped someone in a bad situation like this , and as the others say until they are strong enough to follow through, you cannot make them do anything , it's upsetting, for sure...she's lucky to have you x
Your friend must decide for herself to take back control of her life and that of her children. She needs support in a few ways. There are support groups for abused wives and families and shelters for those who must leave their homes and have nowhere else to go. She may well need counselling or therapy from an appropriate medical professional. She needs to consult with a family law lawyer to understand her rights in this situation and take the necessary legal steps for support and custody of her children and a separation agreement or divorce. She will have to separate herself financially from her husband and establish credit and bank accounts of her own if she does not already have them. If her husband is violent, she may have to get a restraining order to keep him away from her and the children. It may be necessary to either deny him access to the children or allow it only under strictly supervised conditions. This is all complicated and harrowing for someone going through it with an abusive spouse. No matter how well meaning, friends can only offer moral support, but the decision and carrying through with it are all up to her.
You have given her good advice in telling her to document everything. A journal kept with notes written contemporaneously of her spouse's words, behaviour, actions are a good record for her lawyer and the court. Like many such men, her husband revels in exerting power and control over her and the children. Leaving for good can be a difficult decision and can have some peril for her, but there is a lot of support in the community for women in this position. You can help her find these resources, but again, the decision to act is hers alone.
Sitting at the edge of darkness
You have many good replies here already. Perhaps she can check to see if there is a woman's shelter she can contact and have a plan in place should things go south with him (and it will).
Not sure I can add much more other than, as a child from a situation similar with deep scars, she needs to get herself safe and her children.
Sounds like this person lies to you for attention. I have a feeling that no matter what this person always has a sob story. What a total waste of time on your part Lafayette. Close your laptop.
I appreciate everyone's input. Common theme is she has to want to leave. She does, and she did leave. She was gone for six months or so. Her kids ultimatum of her bf or her, that's what broke her. The only place she had to go was back to the family home, or else she'd lose her kids. By THEIR decision.... totally manipulated by him, but they are the ones that told her. She can't survive losing another kid..
I will definitely suggest she calls social services, but I can understand her fear there. If she reports him, and if they feel there is abuse (psychological) towards the kids, they'll be obligated to intervene. That will piss the kids off (they're 16ish) and they'll withdraw from her more. Plus, her husband can then relate the info about her suicidal attempts, and then she'll be in the crosshairs. He's really done a number on the entire family.
She does have her own bank account now, and a car that's in her name only. I'm encouraging her to get back to work asap and build up her account.
A battered woman's hotline or help is a good plan, I'll definitely suggest that. Even better if she can remain anonymous, for the time being.
I appreciate your input, MF. I knew that would be someone's point of view, and I might think the same thing if I'm reading this instead of writing it. But, I've known her for several years now. We've met a couple times and we've become good friends, she's been supportive of me and we've talked about all sorts of things. She's never asked anything of me and only in the last 6-12 months has the shit hit the fan for her. Maybe I'm a fool, but I really don't think she's lying to me or seeking attention. If I'm wrong, shame on me for not seeing what you see.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates Hello my sweet friend. I would keep encouraging her to return to her apartment/boyfriend, and tell her husband to give it his best shot. It’s very important that she returns to work for financial, social, and self esteem issues. Has she seen a lawyer about the blackmail? There must be a record somewhere of the emotional abuse. Emails, texts, voicemail etc to prove his character. In a couple of years (if not sooner) her kids will be old enough to figure out who is the real villain. I hope she can find the courage to leave again and live her own free life.
I won’t suggest that her friend go digging for dirt on him, or maybe even create a little because that would be so wrong. There’s also the option of a noticeable police presence everywhere he goes, but that might stress the poor husband. How awful.
I wish her all the love, freedom and luck she deserves.
EDITED TO ADD: after reading your post again, LM, I realise what you said was that he caught her with her boyfriend. So he caught her cheating? That doesn’t mean she deserves how he manipulates her but I can totally understand him losing his shit if she was still living in the family home and not really supposed to be having a boyfriend. She didn’t do herself any favours by her actions. Not making excuses for husbands behaviour but to be fair, cheating on your spouse is a really low thing to do.
I am a little confused about a few things to do with her children. you mention kids in college, staying with him until they are 18 and grand kids. which is it? Also, when she moved out, did she not take her kids with her? If not, why not?
Having said that, and having been in a similar situation (minus the kids), I can tell you that what the others have said is true... it will get physical at some point and will just get worse as time goes on. And trust me, the emotional and mental is just as bad, maybe even worse. physical wounds heal, mental ones may never heal, or not entirely. People are correct, she won't leave and stay gone until she is ready. There is help, legal and otherwise that won't cost her. Social services will help with the kids. if their dad has turned them against her, they may be able to help, or she may have to just learn to deal with it until she is in a position to change their minds.
Depending on how much he is controlling her right now, she should try to at least maintain some control over her money. move the money she has to another bank and hide the info. she also might want to speak with HR where she works, or her boss and forewarn them about her hubby. has she actually told her family what he is doing to her? She needs to let other's know , so if something does happen, they know who to look at. As sprite said, she can try and push him, but that is a slippery slope she could regret. He could turn it around and say she started it, or hi him first, or something similar. Or he could explode all at once and do her serious harm. Far better is to do what you are suggesting... keep a diary, document, document, and find a few people IRL to confide in... a friend at work, besides HR or her boss, some other friends, at least one family member. Also having a friend that knows the situation, and perhaps can be the keeper of her banking info/debit card. perhaps a burner phone, etc. if she has a passport, can get a replacement drivers license, or any other documents she might need and leave those with a trusted friend as well.
I am not sure having a boyfriend was the wisest choice. She was still married, guessing not even legally separated from hubby. It really just gave him more ammo to use against her. A shelter is a good idea if she can find one and qualifies. but she has to make a commitment to stick it out and not go back to him, no matter what. Otherwise, getting her own place is critical. she also may have to do the hard thing and give up the car if it is just in his name, or he will use it to track her down. And as hard as it may be, she also might need to move further away, even if it means leaving her kids, unless she feels they are also in immediate danger of abuse/
Infidelity is common in cases of domestic abuse. A) It's not hard to look attractive relative to a guy who is stalking her, putting her down, manipulating her, and may get violent with (etc.). B) Affairs are usually not about the 'third party' but are more about the problems within the relationship. C) Women (or men) in that situation are often looking for an escape, and while it's maybe not the best way of getting out of the relationship, an affair can be used as an instrument to end things (i.e. You can't possibly want me anymore after I cheated on you).
Anyway, like others have said, it's ultimately got to be her decision to leave. At best all you can do is support her choice, but it can be very frustrating to stand by and watch someone suffer like that over and over again (they call it vicarious traumatization). If/when she leaves the relationship, it will probably be tempting for her to jump into a new rebound relationship to try to affirm her worth/desirability, etc., but if she wants a healthy relationship she's going to have to do a lot of work on healing herself from the previous abuse first, otherwise she'll be carrying a lot of baggage with her, and that's not fair to the new guy or new relationship, and probably won't end well, which will create a kind of cycle.
BTW, as a mod, I'm going to move this thread over to the relationship advice section where it fits better.
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