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Russia invades Ukraine Feb 24, 2022

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Constant Gardener
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To replace the previous thread which was vaporized when the Think Tank was being reimagined. The war which 98% of the world believed would be over within weeks, since we were told by Putin that Russia had the most powerful armed forces in the world (and few actually knew what Russia's capabilities were).

At this point, Ukraine has fought back valiantly. NATO partners have finally activated with some assistance, disregarding Putin's verbal threats to use nuclear weapons as he saw fit.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/former-us-troops-reveal-most-horrifying-surprises-of-russias-war-in-ukraine

“There’s a lot of really dumb-ass volunteers over here who have no business being in a war.”

“This is my third war I’ve fought in, and this is by far the worst one,” Offenbecker told The Daily Beast. “You’re getting fucking smashed with artillery, tanks. Last week I had a plane drop a bomb next to us, like 300 meters away. It’s horrifying shit.”

Once he was there, some of his buddies from the military started messaging him asking for information on how to join up, too. But he ignored messages for months.

“To be honest it was pretty bad so I didn’t want to bring anyone else into it,” he said.

The missions were grueling, Bramlette said. In Iraq or Afghanistan, Bramlette had air support, or supporting ISR, or intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance. “The worst day in Afghanistan and Iraq is a great day in Ukraine,” he said. “Even when we thought it wasn’t, we were always in control of the situation… versus as a commander of a team in Ukraine,” where there are more unknowns.

On reconnaissance missions in Ukraine, you just have to wait until the team members come back, since comms aren’t reliable. “I would always send a reconnaissance element out first… as soon as those guys leave my side, I’m not gonna really hear from them until they’re back within eyesight. And that may be 24 hours later, maybe 48 hours later,” he explained. “If two of them get injured… there’s no helicopter coming to get you… shit can go south really, really frickin’ quickly. And that’s the kind of stuff that is pretty hard.”

The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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NATO's decision to keep Ukraine out, for as long as the war with Russia is going on, is a cowardly decision and serves only as an incentive for Putin to keep the fight going on indefinitely.

What NATO should have done is making sure Ukraine will win this war in not too long, by providing all the help and equipment they need, and make it very clear that they will become a member in the very near future. But instead they made Ukrainian membership depend on conditions that Russia has control over.
 

From Kasparov's article Ukraine Needs NATO—and NATO Needs Ukraine, Too:

"The only way to stop further Kremlin imperial dreams is for Ukraine to defeat the Russian army in the field and to accept Ukraine into NATO.

The NATO alliance was built in 1949 with one goal: to prevent a Russian land invasion of democratic Europe. With every meter of territory they liberate, Ukrainian soldiers win the war NATO was created to fight. Ukrainian heroes fight and die daily to defend NATO’s peace. Today, Ukraine offers NATO the greatest deal ever presented in military history: It is singlehandedly destroying the alliance’s greatest rival at the cost of no NATO lives. All Ukraine asks in return for winning NATO’s war is the past-expiration equipment sitting in storage facilities that NATO allies were going to throw away anyway.

Fifteen years ago, NATO welcomed Ukrainian aspirations for membership. Ukraine has waited long enough, fought hard enough, died enough. When the Ukrainians win this war, NATO must welcome them into the alliance at long last."


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

The Linebacker
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Ukraine wouldn't be in the position they are currently in, to permissible win the war by outlasted Russua, if it wasn't for a massive infusion of NATO support.

This war could break Putin's stranglehold on Russia. Hopefully it does, and hopefully a true democratic Russia would rise.

But if l could tell the future l'd be the world's richest person.

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Buz

Ukraine wouldn't be in the position they are currently in, to permissible win the war by outlasted Russua, if it wasn't for a massive infusion of NATO support.

True. But the pace in which we give it makes that a lot more folks die than necessary. We know that all the Russian bluff is just that. We also know about the ongoing war crimes committed by the Russian army/Wagner Group, the of women, girls and boys, the kidnapping of children, the killing and torture of civilians, etc.

Why do we keep waiting so long? Because of Russia's threats of escalation? We know these to be nothing but bluff. Because the Ukrainians are not capable of using our equipments? They've shown time and time again that they're very fast learners. Way faster than anyone expected.

So far it seems that the true slow learners here are the NATO leaders. Notice how the NATO states who used to be part of either the Soviet Union or the Warsaw Pact, are the ones that were pushing for quicker help. Why? Because they better understand how Russian imperialism works.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

The Linebacker
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Noll, l am sure Ukraine would welcome The Netherlands military move on in and fight Russia with them right now.

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Buz

Noll, l am sure Ukraine would welcome The Netherlands military move on in and fight Russia with them right now.

No one's claiming that we should go in and fight with them right now. That's also not what the Ukrainians are asking.

 

Kasparov: "Today, Ukraine offers NATO the greatest deal ever presented in military history: It is singlehandedly destroying the alliance’s greatest rival at the cost of no NATO lives. All Ukraine asks in return for winning NATO’s war is the past-expiration equipment sitting in storage facilities that NATO allies were going to throw away anyway."


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Excellent article about the recent NATO summit and it failed miserably:

NATO’s Summit Fails Ukraine

The following quote is probably too long, but it captures exactly why, apart from Sweden’s accession, this summit was such a failure:

"There are some grim conclusions to be made. NATO, still the most powerful military alliance in the world, has shown itself incapable of acting in the face of a real war, even as Russia’s all-out campaign against Ukraine destabilizes member countries, directly threatens our security, and violates the values and principles expressed in both the UN Charter and the Washington Treaty.

In other words, it can only act in calm weather and as a deterrent for countries that are already members. While this is essential, it is limited by the very nature of the danger Russia poses to the world. The temerity expressed by alliance leaders in the face of the Russian threat indirectly weakens NATO’s essence and continues to cast doubt on what might happen if there were a threat to alliance members, most likely on the Eastern Flank. However beneficial the reinforcement of this sector may be, it remains insufficient in the event of a large-scale conventional attack. We also know that the time lost will be measured in the loss of more and more Ukrainian lives.

Russia may conclude that these leaders have “bought” at least some of its so-called red lines and that they are afraid of a total Russian defeat. As for Ukraine, they have made laughable their repeated talk of wishing Kyiv a total victory: in reality, they are giving Moscow every possible argument to continue its war indefinitely. Even the repetition by President Biden and others of “the as long as it takes” formula and the tacit but clear acceptance of a long war, seems to give this message — we are content to delegate the defense of our freedom and security to the Ukrainian people for years to come.

If the Ukrainian people eventually win the war, thanks to the heroism, valor and intelligence of their people, they will draw one conclusion; that it is nice and useful to have friends, but in the final analysis, we’re on our own. That reasoning will one day have consequences the West cannot yet estimate.

If, on the other hand, because of the pusillanimity of certain alliance countries, it ends up having to give in and compromise, Russia will have won. Anything short of complete victory for Ukraine is a form of victory for Russia. It will also be a defeat for the allies, which they will actually have willed through blindness and cowardice. The consequences will be monstrous not only in Ukraine but also in Georgia, Belarus, Syria, Moldavia, Africa, and elsewhere.

The leaders gathered in Vilnius gave no sign of understanding this. It will also send a catastrophic signal to Beijing: if, on the pretext of being a nuclear power, a country is allowed to exercise blackmail and prevent the most powerful countries from intervening to help a nation whose sovereignty and existence are threatened, revisionist dictatorships will have a bright future ahead of them."


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

Constant Gardener
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Forced Russian enlistments are simply treated as bullet sponges.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-soldier-said-comrades-got-one-grenade-each-kill-themselves-2023-7

An intercepted phone call revealed a Russian soldier complaining that troops in his unit were being given just one grenade each, and that they were being given it so they could kill themselves.

The Defense Intelligence of Ukraine - published the audio on Tuesday, saying it showed a Russian military serviceman complaining about ammunition shortages and not getting paid.

The soldier said his comrades were being told to take ammunition with them when moving out to fight, but that they didn't have any.

According to the audio, he then said: "We have one grenade per person, only to blow up ourselves. This is it: 'Russian Federation Army.'"

The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
Wild at Heart
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Quote by Ironic

I'm kinda curious why you think you know Russia's plans.

You do easily fall for propaganda though.

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Ironic

I'm kinda curious why you think you know Russia's plans.

I don't claim to know Russia's plans. I claim, based on all the previous Russian bluff, that their nuclear threats are nothing but bluff.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

The Linebacker
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Trump said if he is elected, he'd pull all support from Ukraine.

Is there any real doubt that Trump is in fact, Putin's sock puppet?

Hopefully, Trump will be convicted and serving time for his crimes by the time of the election.

Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
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Quote by Magical_felix

lol make up any BS you want. Your "I know you are but what am I" schtick that you do whenever anyone shows you what a dumbass you are might as well be a confession.

ElCoco/Bread8 was playing games with you. You fell for it. When ElCoco/Bread8 exposed himself as Silverglaze, it was hilarious and even more hilarious when I remembered you were flirting with him and talking about taking things private - just you and him - to continue like you were a stud.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Let’s get things back on track, fellas. This thread isn’t about which multiple accounts were cyberbanging each other.

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Constant Gardener
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I guess you've never seen the infomercials from the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, with an assist from Mike Huckabee, former Grifter of Arkansas (I meant governor)... everyone knows his unqualified daughter is the current grifter governor of Arkansas.

Ukranians have been dying of starvation for over 80 years and nobody & apparently very few christians and jews are rushing in to help them, so Huckabee has his new grift the last few years.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/1hVw/international-fellowship-of-christians-and-jews-elderly-survival-box-ft-mike-huckabee

*Warning: The video is exceptionally slickly produced and meant to appeal to your empathy. (If you have a smidgen more than Mike Huckabee), you'll be donating $25 a month soon, to their organization, where they hand out food in hard to open 'tin cans' which require a can opener (which the 70-80-90 year old women can't really use).

The same GQP demanding we move on from January 6th, 2021 is still doing audits of the November 3rd, 2020 election.
The Linebacker
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You can support Ukraine by not voting for Putin's sock puppet, Donald Draft-Dodger Trump.

Of course, you can donate money through several organizations to help Ukraine. And you should.

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Buz

You can support Ukraine by not voting for Putin's sock puppet, Donald Draft-Dodger Trump.

Of course, you can donate money through several organizations to help Ukraine. And you should.

I'd suggest donating to https://u24.gov.ua/ and have it end up in Ukrainian hands right away.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

Wild at Heart
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Quote by noll

I'd suggest donating to https://u24.gov.ua/ and have it end up in Ukrainian hands right away.

What are the odds your info gets stolen or you get extra charges with that link though?

You have to remember too that Americans donate to Ukraine daily through taxes. We send the most. Not saying I’m against it, but we already give a lot. What about Europe? Who gives as much as us? Even if you combine countries?

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Magical_felix

What are the odds your info gets stolen or you get extra charges with that link though?

You have to remember too that Americans donate to Ukraine daily through taxes. We send the most. Not saying I’m against it, but we already give a lot. What about Europe? Who gives as much as us? Even if you combine countries?

All citizens, of nations that give aid, donate daily through taxes. And it only makes sense that bigger countries donate more in absolute numbers. In percentage of GDP the US is ranked 12th though (or was so around July 10th).

The link is for private donations though. Not sure what your comment about info getting stolen/extra charges is about.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

Wild at Heart
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Quote by noll

All citizens, of nations that give aid, donate daily through taxes. And it only makes sense that bigger countries donate more in absolute numbers. In percentage of GDP the US is ranked 12th though (or was so around July 10th).

The link is for private donations though. Not sure what your comment about info getting stolen/extra charges is about.

lol who ranked first? And what were the total amounts?

And who ranked first in private donations?

and just saying... often times Americans are targeted after donating money for nefarious charges.

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Magical_felix

lol who ranked first? And what were the total amounts?

And who ranked first in private donations?

and just saying... often times Americans are targeted after donating money for nefarious charges.

See https://www.statista.com/chart/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/ for donations by countries, both absolute as well as as related to GDP.

Private donations may be hard to track, as people may donate directly to Ukrainian organisations, such as https://u24.gov.ua/.
A campaign in the Netherlands had collected €184,493,397 ($201,097,803 by today's currency rates) by April 6th of this year. With similar donation/capita that would equal US private donations of about $3.75B, given that the US population is about 18.6 times bigger. You tell me, is that a little/lot?

I donated to United24 and it did involve a service fee. But before hitting submit I knew exactly what my total payment will be, so I don't see how that would be nefarious. If donations to US organisations have these nefarious charges you speak of, then all the more reason to donate directly to United24 I'd say, unless it's your own bank that adds these charges of course. But in that case it won't matter whether you donate to a local aid organisation or a Ukrainian one (unless you donate in cash perhaps).


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Ironic

What do the numbers from your chart show?

Same as yours I'd reckon.

What does the text say when you follow the link?


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Ironic

So since the numbers don't look good, ignore them. OK.

The article says:

"As this chart shows, the United States has so far pledged the most financial support to Ukraine: €71 billion in military, financial and humanitarian aid since the beginning of 2022. Data from the IFW Kiel Ukraine Support Tracker reveals that EU institutions have been the second largest donors (€35 billion), followed by the UK and Germany (€11 billion each) and Japan ($7 billion).

When considering bilateral aid in terms of a percentage of GDP, several European countries come out ahead of the United States. Currently at the top are Estonia (1.3 percent), Latvia (1.1 percent) and Lithuania (1.0 percent) as the most generous donors. The U.S. ranks 12th, with aid committed to the tune of 0.3 percent of its (large) GDP."

What did I say that contradicts that? What did I ignore?


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Ironic

That the US, with a smaller population than the EU, is footing a much larger portion of the bill to help Ukraine.

Where did I ignore that?


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Ironic

When you tried to focus on the GDP numbers instead of who's providing the needed support.

I'll take it that you find my "And it only makes sense that bigger countries donate more in absolute numbers." is not giving enough credit to the US. Bummer.


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

"insensitive prick!" – Danielle Algo
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Quote by Ironic

I'm using the numbers from your chart. Everybody can see who's supporting Ukraine.

I'll take it you value pictures more than text, because I quoted the text of the article that came with the chart that you keep focusing on.

Again, what did I say that contradicts the article/chart?


===  Not ALL LIVES MATTER until BLACK LIVES MATTER  ===

Big-haired Bitch/Personality Hire
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Quote by Ironic

Responing to your edit, instead of shifting the focus to you or me, let's just keep focused on who's done what for Ukraine,

Again, even when asked a direct question, you resort to your usual refusal to meaningfully engage.

░P░U░S░S░Y░ ░I░N░ ░B░I░O░


Active Ink Slinger
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Quote by WellMadeMale

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jordan-petersons-astounding-ignorance-on-russia-and-ukraine

The self-help guru and right-wing culture warrior continues to get pretty much everything wrong about Putin’s war of aggression.

“According to Peterson, Dostoevsky “fervently believed in the necessity of a revival of Christianity… and he believed that the Russians would need to play a central role in that revival.”

This is what happens when people read the cliff notes rather than the literature.

The fact that JP continues to have a platform astounds me.

"A dirty book is rarely dusty"